Ed Davis isn't getting a fair shot - Page 3
Old 11-12-2012, 06:06 PM   #41 (permalink)
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The issue is with Dwayne's rotations it seems like. I don't really get how he makes up his minutes. Didn't people have this same issue with Triano as well?
Yep. Triano's rotations were pathetic. I'm baffled with Casey's rotations so far. Now when Lowry gets back and we're back to being relatively healthy, if it continues i'll be pissed. It's gotten a lot worse since Lowry went down and Calderon started. I never had much of a problem last season with this issue from what i can remember.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:16 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Yeah. I let it sink in. Coach said he made the difference against Minnesota. That earned him 5 minutes the next game. It's not about earning anything. That's the problem.
Coach was being nice. What do you say when a girl asks you if you think she's fat? Well, even after losing a bit of weight, sadly Ed is that fat chick!


Last edited by carp; 11-12-2012 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:21 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Coach was being nice.
By keeping him in a close game down the stretch and sitting the starters? That was also the one game he didn't allow himself to be out-coached. He should have stayed with being nice.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:23 PM   #44 (permalink)
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By keeping him in a close game down the stretch and sitting the starters? That was also the one game he didn't allow himself to be out-coached. He should have stayed with being nice.
The one game... the one against the team without it's top players? Yeah, that made him look like COY
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:27 PM   #45 (permalink)
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The one game... the one against the team without it's top players? Yeah, that made him look like COY
The team with one other loss? Yeah that team. Are you saying he out-coached anyone else? Because I sure the fuck made no suggestion about COY.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:28 PM   #46 (permalink)
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... It's pretty clear that Bargnani's inefficient and inconsistent offense needs to be supported by another C...
Just to point it out, in the last 4 seasons (basically from when Bosh left and Andrea was 1st option on O.) he averaged:
15 field goals attempts scoring 45% of those and hitting 35.5% of 3s

Brace yourself, I'm compating him to two times MVP Dirk Nowitzki, same 4 seasons:
17.8 FGA 48.1% and 38.5% 3s

Basically he's as inefficient as Dirk, just a bit worse on 3s. He should be sent to D-league.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:51 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Just to point it out, in the last 4 seasons (basically from when Bosh left and Andrea was 1st option on O.) he averaged:
15 field goals attempts scoring 45% of those and hitting 35.5% of 3s

Brace yourself, I'm compating him to two times MVP Dirk Nowitzki, same 4 seasons:
17.8 FGA 48.1% and 38.5% 3s

Basically he's as inefficient as Dirk, just a bit worse on 3s. He should be sent to D-league.
Last four seasons? 2010-2011, 2011-2012 and just 6 games this season = 4 seasons

anywho, let's say that's true, Dirk is 8 years older than Bargs. Dirk has only posted below win shares/48 minutes below the league average only once in his life (rookie season). Bargs' first time posting the league average in winshares/48 minutes was last season. The first time Bargs ever had a significant impact on the court (ie. raps were better with him on the court as opposed to him off of it) was last season (2.2 netpoints/100 possession ie. the offensive benefits of playing with him outweighed the defensive benefits of playing without him). Regarding rebounding, both are putrid on the offensive glass however Nowitzki has only ever been below a DRB% twice in his career (his 1st two seasons). Offensive rating wise Dirk impresses. Dirk is better both in terms of offensive rating and defensive rating in those seasons (10-11 and 11-12) compared to Bargs.

Dirk - 10/11 - 51.7 FG %, 39.3 3 pt %.
11/12 - 45.7 FG %, 368 3 pt %

Bargs - 10/11 - 44.8 FG %, 34.5 3 pt %
11/12 - .432 FG %, 29.6 3 pt %

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...nowitdi01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...bargnan01.html

Also, why do people downvote LX?

Last edited by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!!; 11-12-2012 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:03 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Last four seasons? 2010-2011, 2011-2012 and just 6 games this season = 4 seasons

anywho, let's say that's true, Dirk is 8 years older than Bargs. Dirk has only posted below win shares/48 minutes below the league average only once in his life (rookie season). Bargs' first time posting the league average in winshares/48 minutes was last season. The first time Bargs ever had a significant impact on the court (ie. raps were better with him on the court as opposed to him off of it) was last season (2.2 netpoints/100 possession ie. the offensive benefits of playing with him outweighed the defensive benefits of playing without him). Regarding rebounding, both are putrid on the offensive glass however Nowitzki has only ever been below a DRB% twice in his career (his 1st two seasons). Offensive rating wise Dirk impresses. Dirk is better both in terms of offensive rating and defensive rating in those seasons (10-11 and 11-12) compared to Bargs.
I made averages from 08-09 season to 10-11
I didn't want to say they're equal, far, far from me. I was just pointing out that his offence is not inefficient as many say and that he doesn't take all these shots, given that some people here talk about "chucking 20 a game".

About your stat, raps where better with him on the floor Vs starters than our bench without him Vs opp.bench. Not this great of a difference but surely it is not a conclusive stat.
I prefer how many wins last year without him and how many with him.

For the rest nothing to say about it, bad rebounder and passable defender at best.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:13 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I made averages from 08-09 season to 10-11
I didn't want to say they're equal, far, far from me. I was just pointing out that his offence is not inefficient as many say and that he doesn't take all these shots, given that some people here talk about "chucking 20 a game".

About your stat, raps where better with him on the floor Vs starters than our bench without him Vs opp.bench. Not this great of a difference but surely it is not a conclusive stat.
I prefer how many wins last year without him and how many with him.

For the rest nothing to say about it, bad rebounder and passable defender at best.
You contradict yourself completely. First you say basically the last four seasons and then you say when Bosh left and Bargs became the #1 option on offense. Bargs was a more efficient %wise (FG and 3 pt) when Bosh was here.

The stat I found can be found by looking through different seasons of Bargs' play while on the raps via 82games.com. I don't know what you're trying to achieve with that stat but whatever. Raps were better with him on the floor against other starters than our bench (2nd unit?) was without him playing (?) vs oppposing 2nd units.

Glad we agree on that last part.

Also, seeing Bargs' usage I think we should all agree that Bargs is clearly not a # 1 option in the nba. He would thrive as a 3rd option and would be an average 2nd option.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:26 PM   #50 (permalink)
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When Il Muggo is having a bad game, sit his ass down and give some more minutes to Ed. How else is he going to improve. We keep trying to find reasons to justify BArgagni playing time. He would be tolerable if we had another go to guy who can score.

How in gods name can we stick a rock in the dressing room and expect teammates to run the floor when he is always trailing in transition and looks bewildered in finding a man to pick up. We would be better served with a tall 4 who got some rebounds and hustled and got say 12-15 a night.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:00 PM   #51 (permalink)
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#FreeEd. Let him play!
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:14 AM   #52 (permalink)
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I feel bad for the kid.... because he's making a believer out of me with his play.

Watching Bargs sleepwalk through quarters and halves doesn't make it any easier to stomach either.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:59 AM   #53 (permalink)
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let Bargs go for a decent sf. then have amir/ed eat up the minutes at the 4. kleiza and mcguire can play some spot mins as well if needed.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:21 AM   #54 (permalink)
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When Il Muggo is having a bad game, sit his ass down and give some more minutes to Ed. How else is he going to improve. We keep trying to find reasons to justify BArgagni playing time. He would be tolerable if we had another go to guy who can score.

How in gods name can we stick a rock in the dressing room and expect teammates to run the floor when he is always trailing in transition and looks bewildered in finding a man to pick up. We would be better served with a tall 4 who got some rebounds and hustled and got say 12-15 a night.
That's what I wonder. How can any player find Casey credible?
I'm starting to believe Casey is not a head coach material, just like JT wasn't.
JT couldn't say anything to Bosh, Casey doesn't have the guts to impose himself.
He's afraid of making players sad. He's a school teacher.
He can't draw a play up either.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:27 AM   #55 (permalink)
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It's hard to hire a credible head coach when a GM established that he will decide who gets playing time.

Head coaches with any proven success will not play for that GM - they will absolutely refuse.

That GM is left with the B pool of head coaches who are for the most part looking for their first shot.
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:10 AM   #56 (permalink)
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You contradict yourself completely.
There's no contraddiction, read slowly, maybe my english is not that good.
I took as sample the last 4 seasons without Bosh only because those were the seasons with him at N.1 option. Yes, seasons before those 4 were even better but I wanted stats for him as 1st option to compare him with another 1st option (dirk).

Then I wrote that your stat maybe imperfect, given that the time he's on the court he's playing against opp.Starters, while when he's out the team is usually playing against opp.2nd unit (bench was so hard to understand?)

Then if you pick up two random sentences in this post too I maybe be in contraddiction again.

Last, I don't want to get into the argument of how good\bad he's in every aspect, where you tried to bring this discussion. I was simply pointing out that his offence is not so inefficient as pictured, especially compared to a (better) player who has a similar style.

Then I agree, is time for him to leave, for both sides.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:08 PM   #57 (permalink)
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There's no contraddiction, read slowly, maybe my english is not that good.
I took as sample the last 4 seasons without Bosh only because those were the seasons with him at N.1 option. Yes, seasons before those 4 were even better but I wanted stats for him as 1st option to compare him with another 1st option (dirk).

Then I wrote that your stat maybe imperfect, given that the time he's on the court he's playing against opp.Starters, while when he's out the team is usually playing against opp.2nd unit (bench was so hard to understand?)

Then if you pick up two random sentences in this post too I maybe be in contraddiction again.

Last, I don't want to get into the argument of how good\bad he's in every aspect, where you tried to bring this discussion. I was simply pointing out that his offence is not so inefficient as pictured, especially compared to a (better) player who has a similar style.

Then I agree, is time for him to leave, for both sides.
How did I get downvoted?

Anywho, except it wasn't the last 4 seasons. Bosh's last season was in 09-10. Therefore, Bargs has only been the #1 option on offense for 2 seasons and 7 games this season. So, you're mixing efficiency as he was more efficient when Bosh was here (ie. in 08-09 and 09-10) as Bargs was the #2 option on offense then. The stats that I showed you, the 10-11 and 11-12 seasons, compared to Dirk, were the stats with him as a #1 option.

The other stat ie. him on the court vs off the court is literally what it is, looking at net points/100 possessions while he's on the court (he doesn't face only starters as other teams don't play only their starters) compared to when he's off the court (ie. injured or being on the bench).

Last part, his efficiency, I clearly showed you that his time as a #1 option, he hasn't been that efficient. I think you are the one confusing 2 seasons with a hypothetical/misinformed 4 seasons of being a #1 option. Anywho, I gave you the link to basketball reference. If you want the net possessions link you have to do some research to compare different seasons of Bargs' play (ex. toronto Raptors 2011-2012 82 games.com) .

Lastly, yes, a trade would benefit Bargs and the raptors.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:13 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I think Bargnani is inefficient as a main option. He was pretty efficient when taking 15 shots max. I could really live with him coming off the bench. He really gives two sides of the coin as a starter - going through a good efficient stretch for about half the game, and then being inefficient for about half the game. If he developed any kind of a passing game or helped the team noticeably in other areas, then there would not be much of an issue.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:28 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Back to Ed - when he was in the game last night the team stopped trading baskets. The scoring was down some, but Utah's ridiculous shooting percentage dropped noticeably. There was no longer the need for everyone to sag and help in the interior and that changed things up enough for the Jazz that they couldn't count on so many easy points. Almost as soon as he left the game, that changed. The easy baskets came back for them, and the shooting percentages shot right back up. Over any length of time that is going to be hard to beat.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:37 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Back to Ed - when he was in the game last night the team stopped trading baskets. The scoring was down some, but Utah's ridiculous shooting percentage dropped noticeably. There was no longer the need for everyone to sag and help in the interior and that changed things up enough for the Jazz that they couldn't count on so many easy points. Almost as soon as he left the game, that changed. The easy baskets came back for them, and the shooting percentages shot right back up. Over any length of time that is going to be hard to beat.
Did you see who was making those shots? Are you sure we can rely on those same shots going in every night? It sure as heck wasn't Davis making those shots. I think you're giving too much credit to Ed.
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