Ed, Amir & Bargnani, PF dilemma - Page 3
Old 12-21-2011, 01:27 PM   #41 (permalink)
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if Bargs were able to remain focused and do those things, i'd definitely loosen up on him.

but

for now, he's only proven to me that he's an inefficient scorer, a poor defender and horrible rebounder.

i'd gladly take the two players that hustle, score efficiently, play adequate defence and rebound nicely.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:28 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Yeah, having a 7 footer be ANOTHER 3pt threat actually can work, but when your 7 footer is your only legit 3pt threat (please, nobody say Jose is also a threat).....he may as well be a guard.
Jose isn't a threat? He shot a better percentage on threes than anyone else on the team last year. He took 2.3 attempts per game compared to Bargnani's 3.4 attempts.

Here's hoping DeRozan really has improved, because defenses having to respect him, Jose and Bargnani could actually have a positive impact.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:31 PM   #43 (permalink)
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jose should be more of a threat in every offensive aspect of the game. he's just too scured
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:34 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Jose isn't a threat? He shot a better percentage on threes than anyone else on the team last year. He took 2.3 attempts per game compared to Bargnani's 3.4 attempts.

Here's hoping DeRozan really has improved, because defenses having to respect him, Jose and Bargnani could actually have a positive impact.

He doesn't shoot nearly enough to be considered a real threat. He should be taking by far the most threes on this team.Barely just over 2/per for a point guard that shoots for such a high percentage is low. He shoots 2.3 threes and hits what....1?
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:36 PM   #45 (permalink)
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He doesn't shoot nearly enough to be considered a real threat. He should be taking by far the most threes on this team.Barely just over 2/per for a point guard that shoots for such a high percentage is low.
That's nonsensical. This could simply be seen as proof that he is considered the biggest threat on the team, and as such is not left open, allowing his teammates more floor to work with, exactly the effect multiple 3-point threats would ideally have.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:39 PM   #46 (permalink)
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jose should be more of a threat in every offensive aspect of the game. he's just too scured
Understatment.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:39 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Bargnani is no more inefficient than any other jumpshooter in the NBA
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:41 PM   #48 (permalink)
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i don't think its proof at all. we've all seen jose deter away from taking shots. you watch jose play and it's almost like he plays to have high percentages are a great assist/turnover ratio. not necessarily a horrible thing, it's just frustrating at times when you see the things he passes off.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:41 PM   #49 (permalink)
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That's nonsensical. This could simply be seen as proof that he is considered the biggest threat on the team, and as such is not left open, allowing his teammates more floor to work with, exactly the effect multiple 3-point threats would ideally have.
Please he's constantly open for threes. He elects to over dribble, hesitate and pass it off. He is what he is. And I just don't consider him a 3pt threat, he could be but chooses not to be.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:45 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Bargnani is no more inefficient than any other jumpshooter in the NBA
i disagree, but i bet we both agree that Bargs could become a more efficient scorer if he played closer to the basket.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:48 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Please he's constantly open for threes. He elects to over dribble, hesitate and pass it off. He is what he is. And I just don't consider him a 3pt threat, he could be but chooses not to be.
Over dribble? He sure does. But if you have time to dribble even once, you aren't open for 3. So that's not the problem. I don't see him passing up wide open shots too often. He attacks the rim less than I would like (the 07-08 Jose was really fun to watch), but he is most certainly a three point threat, especially in the terms we were discussing - having players the defense must respect out to the 3 point line, opening up the floor.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:51 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Over dribble? He sure does. But if you have time to dribble even once, you aren't open for 3. So that's not the problem. I don't see him passing up wide open shots too often. He attacks the rim less than I would like (the 07-08 Jose was really fun to watch), but he is most certainly a three point threat, especially in the terms we were discussing - having players the defense must respect out to the 3 point line, opening up the floor.
Then a I guess we're seeing different games. I see him passing up open shots all the time. Whatever.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:57 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Then a I guess we're seeing different games. I see him passing up open shots all the time. Whatever.
Sure - but your premise that a PG must take a deal more 3 point attempts to be considered a threat is still nonsense. Is Steve Nash a 3 point threat? He only takes 2.7 a game. Is Luke Ridnour (who shoots .440)? He takes only 2.6. Lawson takes 2.1, Hinrich takes 2.6, Fisher takes 1.9, CP3 takes 2.3. All of them shoot above .380 from long range, and I can't imagine you really hold that none of them are 3 point threats.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:50 PM   #54 (permalink)
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i disagree, but i bet we both agree that Bargs could become a more efficient scorer if he played closer to the basket.
yes, but for obvious reasons, but simply placing the guy close to the hoop without it being in a positive situation in the flow of an offense with other guys being threats...than it won't matter.

Bargnani is unstoppable when he gets the ball with motion at the high post extended. BUT, since the rest of the team has nary shown any ability to do much more than supply inconsistent and shoddy offence in the past, shitty motion, etc, nobody is really gonna get much in flow. People hate on this guy for taking low percentage shots, but honestly, 90% of his shots he has to create on his own.

My hope is that this changes. Maybe Derozan is good this year, maybe, at some point, Toronto management will understand, or acknowledge that T-Mac is gone...time to maybe think about actually investing some cash into like, arguably the most integral position on the floor.

Then maybe guys like Bargnani or Jose aren't getting flamed because they can't average 30 a game with a high percentage carrying the load....

The shakers gotta shake. (2,3 guard) If they aren't scaring the opposition into doubles.... then honestly... nothing will change. And Posting Bargnani will do little as the guys on the arc simply don't bury open looks.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:52 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Sure - but your premise that a PG must take a deal more 3 point attempts to be considered a threat is still nonsense. Is Steve Nash a 3 point threat? He only takes 2.7 a game. Is Luke Ridnour (who shoots .440)? He takes only 2.6. Lawson takes 2.1, Hinrich takes 2.6, Fisher takes 1.9, CP3 takes 2.3. All of them shoot above .380 from long range, and I can't imagine you really hold that none of them are 3 point threats.
Yes but Dan. Jose has been hurt forever. If...IF healthy he is a massive 3pt threat.

he just ain't
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:05 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Over dribble? He sure does. But if you have time to dribble even once, you aren't open for 3. So that's not the problem. I don't see him passing up wide open shots too often. He attacks the rim less than I would like (the 07-08 Jose was really fun to watch), but he is most certainly a three point threat, especially in the terms we were discussing - having players the defense must respect out to the 3 point line, opening up the floor.
I keep hoping for THAT Jose to comeback. That's the one we need. Get the dude a bionic hammy, and he's set.
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