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Dr. J. Naismith 06-27-2008 01:01 PM

DX: Raptors A Threat To Miss The Playoffs Now
 
Ugh ... a little too premature considering the off-season just got started, but would any of you agree with this guy from Draft Express? :confused2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich Doerr
On the flip side, the Raptors lost significant depth and are now a threat to miss the playoffs, despite the presence of solid talent in Chris Bosh, Jamario Moon, and Jose Calderon.

Source - Click here

Krazy Ivan 06-27-2008 01:06 PM

Although they have talent, Raps are not a deep team anymore... so, if any of their 'big' guys go down they will be in trouble... just imagine Bosh, Jose or O'Neal missing 10 or 20 games...

Gurk 06-27-2008 01:25 PM

raps need to do wat boston did whuch is to take somecheap contracts or fairly cheap contracts from the free agncy and make a team and as time goes by the raps will be a good team again.

MangoKidHoops 06-27-2008 01:28 PM

I do. Our depth was our calling card. Now with TJ, Rasho, Garbo, Baston, Delfino, Brezec gone, and only up O'Neal, BC has A LOT of work to do. I wouldn't be surprised if we did miss the playoffs.

MangoKidHoops 06-27-2008 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurkang (Post 39366)
raps need to do wat boston did whuch is to take somecheap contracts or fairly cheap contracts from the free agncy and make a team and as time goes by the raps will be a good team again.

It's not that easy. When Boston got Allen and Garnett, everyone and their momma was lined-up outside the arena wanting to play for them - and for cheap. Toronto doesn't have that pull.

fancylad 06-27-2008 01:31 PM

bullocks.

The only real players it looks like we're missing from last year is Delfino at this point.

Frontcourt: We have clearly improved bigtime with Oneal's addition.

PG: need to get a half-decent, pass first backup. shouldn't be that hard to do. considering the team won a lot last year with Jose and a combo of Darrick freaking Martin / Juan freaking Dixon as our backup PG, i don't think it will take much to get us to pretty much the same/better level as before.

2,3: So Delfino may be back, maybe not. This is the one area where we still need to bring someone in. Bc will get something done - i'm confident.

All in all, i think we will see a better team in terms of overall balance than ones we saw previously.

We won't miss the playoffs. no way.

moremilk 06-27-2008 01:32 PM

yeah ... losing two backups and getting a multiple all-star center is always going to get you in trouble ... I mean look at the Celtics, they traded 7 players for an aging big who never won anything and what good did it do to them. They barely made the playoffs and had to struggle in the first two rounds of the playoffs before almost losing in the NBA finals. Yeah - I can definitely see this guy's point of view ... :)

fancylad 06-27-2008 01:33 PM

Let's keep in mind that we're only ONE move into the offseason. a move that technically hasen't happened yet.

There's more on the way!

MangoKidHoops 06-27-2008 01:35 PM

You're failing to also see that once they got KG and Allen, you had guys like Cassell, PJ Brown and James Posey who signed on for peanuts to win a championship - and all of those guys played a major role in the Celtics winning. They just weren't scrubs that got not PT. The Raptors probably won't have that kind of luxury.

MangoKidHoops 06-27-2008 01:39 PM

And.. almost every team in the NBA is getting better. Look at Atlanta, look at Philadelphia, look at Milwaukee..Chicago if they can find a home for Kirk Hinrich and get a good big man in return would be amazing with Gordon, Rose, Deng and Nocioni..Dwight Howard is a year older in Orlando. I'm not saying that the Raptors will miss the playoffs, but for them to miss the playoffs is a distinct possibility.

moremilk 06-27-2008 01:53 PM

Cassel was a complete failure and he arrived at the end of the season, along with PJ. The only real free agents they signed were Posey and House. Guys like House are a dime a dozen - Posey is the only one who really made an impact. And I agree we need somebody like him if we are to win the conference this season. But to make the playoffs? Come on ...

As far as other teams improving, not sure I agree about any of your examples. Chicago will be worse next season, since Rose will surely not be as good as hinrich in his first season. Not even Paul was great in his rookie season (he was great as a rookie but he wasn't a top PG in year 1).

Milwaukee got better by a small margin imo. They had a 28 or so wins - do you honestly think that a guy like Jefferson can get them 15 more wins next season?

Atlanta didn't make any move yet, so there's no reason to think they will be anything different than they were last season. They will probably be a .500 team again. Same about Philadelphia - they actually overachieved last season and I expect them to drop back a bit.

And internal improvement applies to all teams ... Yes, Howard will be better, but so will Bosh, Calderon, Bargnani and Moon. It's extremely rare for a team to make a big jump through internal improvement alone ...

MangoKidHoops 06-27-2008 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moremilk (Post 39393)
Cassel was a complete failure and he arrived at the end of the season, along with PJ. The only real free agents they signed were Posey and House. Guys like House are a dime a dozen - Posey is the only one who really made an impact. And I agree we need somebody like him if we are to win the conference this season. But to make the playoffs? Come on ...

As far as other teams improving, not sure I agree about any of your examples. Chicago will be worse next season, since Rose will surely not be as good as hinrich in his first season. Not even Paul was great in his rookie season (he was great as a rookie but he wasn't a top PG in year 1).

Milwaukee got better by a small margin imo. They had a 28 or so wins - do you honestly think that a guy like Jefferson can get them 15 more wins next season?

Atlanta didn't make any move yet, so there's no reason to think they will be anything different than they were last season. They will probably be a .500 team again. Same about Philadelphia - they actually overachieved last season and I expect them to drop back a bit.

And internal improvement applies to all teams ... Yes, Howard will be better, but so will Bosh, Calderon, Bargnani and Moon. It's extremely rare for a team to make a big jump through internal improvement alone ...

PJ Brown played 17 and 20 minutes per game in teh conference finals and finals, respecfully, so he was a contributor.
Cassell got some minutes as well and played a vital role in terms of leadership.
I'm not a fan of Eddie House, but even he hit some big shots - but those guys siged on for CHEAP. They weren't getting like 3-4-5 million. They were getting like 1 million each. The Celtics had that luxury.

You make that statement about Milwaukee, but then you look at a team like Orlando. They barely made it into the playoffs a couple of years ago and then last off-season, they added Stan Van Gundy and Rashard Lewis and they experience a difference of about 13 wins. Was it just Lewis? And I think RJ is a better player than Lewis. Milwaukee finally has a good coach in Skiles, a different approach and in my opinion, better talent than Orlando. To undestimate them would be a mistake.

Everyone thought Atlanta would be at the bottom of the league, but their young guys stepped up - and they're gaining confidence (especially taking the champs to the limit in the first round) and experience. They're gonna be better, especially with a full year of Bibby at the helm.

Philly has LOADS of cap room - They'll make a splash and they're so young. They had guys like Iguodala and Young step up. They're improving as well.

Like I said, I don't think we'll miss the playoffs, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did. So be easy. Have a coke and a smile.

Benzo 06-27-2008 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fancylad (Post 39369)
bullocks.

The only real players it looks like we're missing from last year is Delfino at this point.

Frontcourt: We have clearly improved bigtime with Oneal's addition.

PG: need to get a half-decent, pass first backup. shouldn't be that hard to do. considering the team won a lot last year with Jose and a combo of Darrick freaking Martin / Juan freaking Dixon as our backup PG, i don't think it will take much to get us to pretty much the same/better level as before.

2,3: So Delfino may be back, maybe not. This is the one area where we still need to bring someone in. Bc will get something done - i'm confident.

All in all, i think we will see a better team in terms of overall balance than ones we saw previously.

We won't miss the playoffs. no way.

Fancy speaks the truth.

jeffb 06-27-2008 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyRrAd_Nation (Post 39367)
I do. Our depth was our calling card. Now with TJ, Rasho, Garbo, Baston, Delfino, Brezec gone, and only up O'Neal, BC has A LOT of work to do. I wouldn't be surprised if we did miss the playoffs.

What a difference a day makes!;)

moremilk 06-27-2008 02:37 PM

sorry - but I don't follow your reasonsing at all.

first, cassel and brown barely played during the regular season since they were acquired very late in the season. Eddie House wasn't acquired for cheap - he just doesn't have a lot of value, and for a good reason. He's a good shooter and that's about it. Not even close to Kapono in any respect of his game.

there are many reasons why orlando had a big jump this season. First, and foremost is their coach. Second, Howard made nice improvements under Van Gundy, not necessarily in skill, but in how he plays. He got more focused on defense and other areas. Personally, I think they had better luck compared with the previous season.

Atlanta will be better for sure, but not by a large margin. There just isn't any example in recent history where a team made a major jump without new players or a new coach. They had 37 wins, they might get 41-42.

Milwaukee will be better next season, that's for sure. They have a good coach and a nice new player. I think they will definitely be a .500 team and fighting for a playoff spot.

But then again, I see ourselves winning 52-58 games next season. So missing the playoffs would be kind of impossible, unless something really goes wrong.

Adequate Swag 06-27-2008 02:37 PM

Saying the Raptors have regressed is one thing. That argument can be made (though I certainly disagree)

Missing the playoffs? Really?

Last I checked, the Raptors didn't get moved to the West. And last I checked, 8 games below .500 gets you a playoff spot in the East.

Depth is a key factor in basketball, and it could hold Toronto back from becoming serious contenders this year, but I mean, come on. A loss of depth (and lets get real, TJ and Delfino are the only bench guys we're losing who were contributors) does not account for an 8 game slide. Especially given that the starting 5 has been significantly upgraded.

An all star addition more than outweighs the loss of a bunch of flawed role players. And even if it didn't, to think that it's going to result in the Raptors dropping by 8 games this year is absurd.

Jeff Van Gundy > Erich Doerr...all day

jeffb 06-27-2008 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adequate Swag (Post 39411)
Saying the Raptors have regressed is one thing. That argument can be made (though I certainly disagree)

Missing the playoffs? Really?

Last I checked, the Raptors didn't get moved to the West. And last I checked, 8 games below .500 gets you a playoff spot in the East.

Depth is a key factor in basketball, and it could hold Toronto back from becoming serious contenders this year, but I mean, come on. A loss of depth (and lets get real, TJ and Delfino are the only bench guys we're losing who were contributors) does not account for an 8 game slide. Especially given that the starting 5 has been significantly upgraded.

An all star addition more than outweighs the loss of a bunch of flawed role players. And even if it didn't, to think that it's going to result in the Raptors dropping by 8 games this year is absurd.

Jeff Van Gundy > Erich Doerr...all day


I highly doubt that 8 games under .500 will get you a playoff spot next season

Adequate Swag 06-27-2008 02:43 PM

And as for other teams improving...

Atlanta hasn't resigned Smith yet. They don't sniff the playoffs without him.
Orlando hasn't really improved, they'll remain strong next year.
Milwaukee has certainly improved, but they are still no better than a .500 team.
Philly could improve because they're young, but Andre Miller was a huge part of that team, and may not be back.
Miami, Chicago, Charlotte and New Jersey have improved as well, but they are still on the outside looking in, waiting for young guys to develop.

The East is indeed slowly getting better, but thus far, Toronto has improved just as much as anyone, and barring any further huge deals/signings, I don't see any other team behind us improving to the point that they are going to be expected to move ahead of the Raps in the standings.

jeffb 06-27-2008 02:44 PM

One thing everyone forgets is that BC isn't done! He has around 8 million dollars to spend and needs to get another wing player and back up PG.And can maybe still make a trade (Highly doubtful) but lets wait a month or so and see where we're at. We're not going to be chapionship contender next season either way but we can be a better team if BC adds the right pieces in July and maybe win a round or two next playoffs! We all need to take a step back a bit.

moremilk 06-27-2008 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyRrAd_Nation (Post 39367)
I do. Our depth was our calling card. Now with TJ, Rasho, Garbo, Baston, Delfino, Brezec gone, and only up O'Neal, BC has A LOT of work to do. I wouldn't be surprised if we did miss the playoffs.

you've got to be kidding me ... Brezec, Baston and Garbo played about 200 minutes combined. Losing them will make NO DIFFERENCE. Delfino will either be resigned, or somebody better will be signed for the MLE. Rasho didn't play at all for the first half of the season (when we had our best record, at 10 over .500 with 25 games to go).

I would argue that losing Ford is hardly a major concern. Let's say Ford was playing 25 minutes per game. 15 of those minutes will be played by Jose now, who is clearly a better player. Only 10 of the minutes will be played by somebody of considerably lesser value. I think that's pretty much a toss - as long as we have somebody at least superior to Derrick Martin as the backup PG.

So really, all we're losing is Rasho and we're getting O'Neal. O'Neal is a top 5 defensive big man in the league with a much better offensive game than Rasho. He solves our most glaring weakness, interior defense. He solves our second and thirs most glaring weaknesses, shot blocking and rebound. His scoring will be a significant improvement over what both Rasho and Bargnani produced last season.


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