Doesn't it seem as if Jose is the odd man out? - Page 2
Old 01-24-2010, 11:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 72,791
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammo View Post
Who's filler? Wright?
Expirings- Wright, Rasho, POB....possibly Evans?
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2010, 11:56 PM   #22 (permalink)
Having sex with melissa theuriau

Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 70
Representing:
Default

No not Rasho !!!!

He is the only player on the team that makes me laugh, especially when he is chasing the ball
sleepyheads27 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2010, 11:58 PM   #23 (permalink)
a fan of scratching his bare bum and smelling his fingers.

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 427
Representing:
Default

i think the Calderon for butler talks are dead. But with the way wright is playing there may be hope.
osamu is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 12:00 AM   #24 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 72,791
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by osamu View Post
i think the Calderon for butler talks are dead. But with the way wright is playing there may be hope.
Dead for now?

Calm before the storm. Something will get done by Feb. 18th
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 12:34 AM   #25 (permalink)
happy the day is finished at noon on Monday!

Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 66
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS View Post
Agreed. Personally I never thought of Jose as a starter and I know I may get jumped for that but so be it. He'll come back and have some quality games for Toronto it just won't happen consistently
+1

He is much more of an asset on the market right now. A better defensive team can cover his play on D, raps cannot.

I do feel bad for him as no one likes to lose their spot from injury. Would be nice to have his play from the bench, but he costs too much for that.
RapCow is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 12:46 AM   #26 (permalink)
in dire need of a drink ...hic

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 690
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
At least the last 3 games. It seems to me he appears to be the odd man out with Jack playing really good, he seems ineffective most of the time, isn't being aggressive anymore and isn't looking to get his shot or take it to the rim as of late. And the last couple games Belinelli has finished the games and he's been on the bench to end games. It's pretty evident Turkoglu plays alot better with Jack/Beli then with Jose as well. I really like Jose, but it just seems to me that it's the begining of the end of him in Toronto and there is absolutely no talk of him starting again. I'm ok now if he stays or goes, but the writing is on the wall imo.

Thoughts?
Jose seems to play pretty well as 6th man. I agree his days as a starter here may be done. I hope so unless it's as an injury replacement. Jacks doing well and deserves to continue starting.

Ending games is a different issue. It'll likely vary depending on opposition and who's hot/cold.
Jakkal is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 01:14 AM   #27 (permalink)
gone

Senior Member
 
Beesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 986
Representing:
Default

I guess Jose has his nights, but I think we really need him in the long run, just depends how happy he is coming off the bench. I would hate to see this guy get traded. Having said that, he probably deserves to be a starting point guard somewhere else.
Beesh is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 01:51 AM   #28 (permalink)
the next dictator of MLSE

fresh and clean
 
Windex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: uʍop ɹǝpun
Posts: 22,524
Representing:
Default

he passed the ball well and his defense was bad, normal performance to me
just needs to hit those shots
Windex is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 02:03 AM   #29 (permalink)
just a Fan

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 322
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
At least the last 3 games. It seems to me he appears to be the odd man out with Jack playing really good, he seems ineffective most of the time, isn't being aggressive anymore and isn't looking to get his shot or take it to the rim as of late. And the last couple games Belinelli has finished the games and he's been on the bench to end games. It's pretty evident Turkoglu plays alot better with Jack/Beli then with Jose as well. I really like Jose, but it just seems to me that it's the begining of the end of him in Toronto and there is absolutely no talk of him starting again. I'm ok now if he stays or goes, but the writing is on the wall imo.

Thoughts?
IMO - The signing of Hedo and then Jack, created a three head monster in that Hedo is more a point guard (forward) than a 3 - resulting in too many starting ball handlers. To me, Jack is more a 2 than a point gurard and complements Hedo better. Jose is much more of a set piece PG and is not good as a 2 offensively. That being said - having Banks to back up Jack & Hedo may be too big a gamble even if Banks seemed capable in the few appearances todate.

In the last two games, Jack's been on fire! Playing way above his head. I agreed that Jose seem to have lost some of his quickness - being blocked twice in one game by bogut is not good and his confidence may have taken a little pounding. As he hestiated to drive, the defense is playing him tighter, making it more difficult to get his shots off.

With the second unit, there has been a lot more breakout than set pieces - again limiting Jose's opporutnity to take shots off the P&R which is his offensive bread and butter play.

So, Jose offensive opportunitis has been more limited recently.

Jack has always played very aggressively on offense...excessively so most of the time as his shot/drive selection were risky and reven reckless at times. Druing Jose's absence, Jack was very average in offense, capable, but average. His hustle has been valuable and covered up some of his defensive mistakes. Only in the last two games, have Jack's shots really been falling. As long as Jack's shot continues to score, jack can and should start. However, I don't see this level of success will last as other teams will adjust, and his shots will not always fall. Longer term, I don't see Jack averaging any more than 10 pts, 3-4 assist per game.

Jose is a capable PG, at least as a back up and I don't see BC would give up on the two-PG tandem because Jack's style is so risky. Over the years, Jose has demonstrated that he is a student of the game and will continue to improve his game. Now that he has a good shot, I beleive he will work to improve his laterial quickness for better defense. With the 2nd half of the season underway - defenses will tighen up, there will be more half court offenses which would be better suited to Jose's game. Hence the two different styled PGs will continue to be a strength.

In the last twenty or so games, the raps are playing at above average clip. The team is gelling - there is no telling how much more they can improve. Evans is due to come back in a month, and expected to be a contributor. There appears to be more success yet to come.

Until the team has plateaued, my guess is BC will leave his team alone as no one is sure if CB4 will stay or go at the end of this season. For BC - if the team continues to play at the current clip, the season is already a success.

I don't see Jose going anywhere, nor Belli, Amir and Weems for that matter.
BBallFan is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 02:42 AM   #30 (permalink)
the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor

The Mara sisters are hot!
 
Bill Haverchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,834
Representing:
Default

I'll weigh in on this.

1 - I would not be opposed to Jose getting traded, if it brings in a player that improves the team by addressing a need, or if brings in an all-star calibre player. I'm cool with that.

2 - In 3 of the last 4 games, Jose has not played to his offensive potential. But he hasn't been totally off the last 3 games. If we nitpick, you're sort of wrong about that, Jeff. For example, 3 games ago, Jose posted these numbers on the road in Milwaukee:

21 minutes
16 points
5 assists
4 rebounds
5-9 from the field
+ 6 rating.

Jose was a major reason the Raps even had a chance to win that road game. Jack has been fantastic the last two games, but, on the road in Milwaukee, JJ struggled a bit.

Now, if you look at the last 4 games, Jose is struggling with his shot, and that's about it. We all know Jose is a below average defender. Heck, that might even be too kind. It doesn't take a genius to see that Jose has defensive shortcomings. But there are two ends on the court, and Jose brings a lot to the table on the offensive end. Even when his shot is off, Jose is a solid back-up, so long as the Raps don't use him on important defensive possessions really late in the 4th, in my opinion. I also don't like when one of the points is hot and the other gets subbed in too quickly, regardless of whether we're talking about Jose or Jack.

Over the past 4 games since the Dallas game in which he was awesome, Jose has averaged these numbers:

MPG: 22
PPG: 9.0
APG: 4.0
RPG: 2.0
A/TO ratio: 4/1
FG%: .366 (11-30)
3FG%: .400 (4-10)
+/- per/game = +3.5


Since his great home game against Dallas, Jose's shot has been inconsistent but that's hardly a reason to panic. It's just 3 of 4 games, for fuck's sake. Jose was off on the road in Cleveland (2-9), then he torched the Bucks (5-9 for 16 points), but then he fell back the past two games (2-6 against both the Bucks and Lakers). But, even when shooting poorly, Jose still manages to be on the positive side of the ledger most nights. He gets people involved and he doesn't turn over the ball. He still had a 4/1 assist to turnover ratio while his shot was off. It sucks that his shot has been off the 3 of the past 4 games, but he's still helping the 2nd unit out by creating easy buckets. Jose has only had a negative rating in 2 of the 10 games since he returned.

The fact of the matter is, since Jose returned, both Jose and Jack have had 2-3 games stretches where each of them, at different times, has stepped up and exploited one of the opposing points. A few games it was Jose, like against New York (21 points in 26 minutes ), then Dallas (15 in 23 minutes), and the Bucks on the road (16 in 21 minutes). However, the last 2 games it has been Jack who has stepped up offensively. What I care about is the team wins. Jose and Jack have different styles, as Bballfan mentioned, and bring different pluses to the table. Having them both isn't terrible. Jack should definitely start because he is a more well rounded player, who complements the other starters. But Jose provides a nice change of pace, and when he is on, he can be a game changer.

3 - If Jose is not traded, for the rest of the season it seems like Triano just needs to learn to ride the hot hand a little better. If Jose is on, give him more minutes. If Jack is playing really well, do not keep Jose on the floor for so long in the second half. But like I said, I'm not opposed to Jose being traded. If he goes, it might help Hedo's game. I just hope we get something good in return for Jose.

4 - In the short term, I think the Raps look good, either way, so long as Jose is healthy. If he is not traded, he provides a solid back-up, who can change a game when his shot is rolling. But if we're talking long term, I think it might help to ditch Jose's contract, especially if the Raps can get a solid player in return. BC has a tough decision on his hands, assuming a deal is available.
Bill Haverchuck is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 02:45 AM   #31 (permalink)
the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor

The Mara sisters are hot!
 
Bill Haverchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,834
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBallFan View Post

In the last two games, Jack's been on fire! Playing way above his head. I agreed that Jose seem to have lost some of his quickness - being blocked twice in one game by bogut is not good and his confidence may have taken a little pounding. As he hestiated to drive, the defense is playing him tighter, making it more difficult to get his shots off.

With the second unit, there has been a lot more breakout than set pieces - again limiting Jose's opporutnity to take shots off the P&R which is his offensive bread and butter play.

......[a bunch of other solid points]
I like your post, dude. You made some solid observations, in my opinion.
Bill Haverchuck is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 02:58 AM   #32 (permalink)
enjoying having the keys to destiny

perusing ancient database
 
ClingRap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The far side of the Universe.
Posts: 1,884
Representing:
Default

i still think there's the potential to have greater depth at the point guard slot with jose having his head on straight.
there was a stretch of five games before the last three games, where jose came out with energy and gave the Raptors a lift on both ends of the floor.
i love jose on this team. he's a better point guard than jack. hands down.
but jack's savvy, and in this league, that can get you an extra 5-10 points, just by being hard nosed and determined. and lately, that's what this team has needed.
but mark my words, there'll be times where they'll need jose to come in and make plays, make shots, and run the pick and roll.

i like having both.
ClingRap is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 03:51 AM   #33 (permalink)
Bang Bang Bang, Skeet Skeet Skeet, She do that thing for 3 retweets...

Blunted Member
 
Dutches's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 992
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
He was never in, so hard to argue that one.
As I've said before, if Patrick O'Bryant was a foot shorter he would not possess any qualities that belong to NBA players. He's that useless.
Dutches is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 06:33 AM   #34 (permalink)
likes the consistency in the colangelo built raptors

Senior Member
 
rapsmannn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,419
Representing:
Default

D Fischer cut jose with a elbow

anybody see this?

to me at first it looked like it was accidental,

but I pvr it and watched in slow motion, Fisher had his elbows up and ran into jose,

normally I would think ya 50/50 ball on it being accidental

but his history suggest otherwise, the more I watched it the more conclusive it looked, he is a dirty player which isn't news, somebody needs to go upside his head
rapsmannn is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 06:48 AM   #35 (permalink)
known as LetsRock too

Senior Member
 
Vellassco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 175
Representing:
Default

This is a long road. We need every player along with this road. Jose is top class pg, no one can argue this. Let this team gel a bit more before asking players heads. Lets give full support them, cheer them (Esp when they are struggling). We may loose at the end of road but no one can argue about their winning spirits. When the all rocks stand on its place , this team can beat every team in this league. Its good to know this. If you ask me, Jose is top of the list with his god given winning spirit. I love Jose, i love this game, i love the win.

Lets cheer them, and enjoy the game.
Vellassco is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 07:03 AM   #36 (permalink)
blah!

nosce te ipsum


 
fancylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: east side.
Posts: 14,625
Representing:
Default

to answer the title question of this thread, no, i don't think Jose is the odd man out. Yesterday wasn't his best game, but i don't see how he is becoming some forgotten part of the team. Fact is we have a fantastic point guard tandem with him and Jack. It's been working really well of late and messing with the depth we have at PG would be a bad thing.

You know who the real odd man out is now? It's Marcus Banks.... and it's a crying shame given how well he played when Jose was out. ...but do i think he should be inserted back into the rotation at the expense of Jose or Jarrett? NO!!
Oh well... that's the nature of being a third stringer - and he'll probably be called upon later again anyways.
fancylad is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 08:18 AM   #37 (permalink)
landry fields forever

Administrator

 
Acie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 21,592
Representing:
Default

I love reactionary fans. If Jack struggles for the next two or three games then all of a sudden his signing will be questioned again and he'll be mentioned in all the silly trade ideas again and Jose will return to being the golden boy.

Anyway, Jose is not the odd man out.

Also, his budding chemistry with Johnson is beautiful to watch.
Acie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 08:22 AM   #38 (permalink)
blah!

nosce te ipsum


 
fancylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: east side.
Posts: 14,625
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acie View Post
Also, his budding chemistry with Johnson is beautiful to watch.
Thanks for bringing that up. I meant to touch on it myself. Every game now for the past while, they have been hooking up real nicely.
fancylad is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 09:20 AM   #39 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 72,791
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acie View Post
I love reactionary fans. If Jack struggles for the next two or three games then all of a sudden his signing will be questioned again and he'll be mentioned in all the silly trade ideas again and Jose will return to being the golden boy.

Anyway, Jose is not the odd man out.

Also, his budding chemistry with Johnson is beautiful to watch.
IMO Turkoglu/Beli have better chemistry with Amir then Jose does.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 09:23 AM   #40 (permalink)
landry fields forever

Administrator

 
Acie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 21,592
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
IMO Turkoglu/Beli have better chemistry with Amir then Jose does.
Of course they do.

Open your eyes...watch the game for a change without bias.
Acie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TJ vs Jose. RAPTORSBESTFAN Toronto Raptors 18 09-29-2009 07:54 PM
Jose insight_tor Toronto Raptors 2 11-13-2008 12:22 AM
What does Jose Have To Do? Benzo Toronto Raptors 30 01-21-2008 07:58 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24