Does anyone miss Chris Bosh - Page 4
Old 04-07-2011, 03:04 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Yeah, I agree that getting him as a FA was a good choice, just not at 50M/5 years.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:27 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I miss Bosh the player who played hard for us for 7 years. Its unfortunate that he changed and turned into a media whore at the end. The guy was very humble, and one of the class acts of the nba.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:31 PM   #63 (permalink)
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What I miss is the player good enough to be considered for all-nba year after year. I miss any kind of tandem that stood out as one of the best in the league. I miss the disciplined team at an elite level, that finds a way to win when it counts, more often than not, year after year.

Oh yeah - we've never had that. None of it. We've had some good, exciting players. We've had some decent teams. But mostly we've had holes to fill and lackluster rosters relative to teams that really matter. So there's just no point in missing anything at this point. I'm still looking forward to seeing something that I might really miss, and it's getting a little sad with all the waiting.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:45 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Sorry... bringing in washed up players who are on their last legs doesn't constitute "giving it an honest shot".
all i'm saying is that with both jo and marion he went for defense. neither one wanted to be here in the long run, and it didn't work. i don't know what you meany by 'an honest shot'. surely you don't mean that bc was being dishonest, so i take that to mean that he didn't try hard. not sure how it could be proven that he didn't. not sure it is even relevant. i just don't get what you mean by this., were they great players? no. i'm still waiting for someone to show me the slam dunk alternative.

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I'm assuming that Chandler might have been had... considering he was dealt (and ALMOST dealt to us). Impossible to say anything for sure, but I've never bought into the idea that we never had ANY tradeable assets that would have made it possible to bring in a guy like that.
would love to hear who you think was available and who we could have traded for them. i can list lots of guys that i would love to have, but good players are not easy to pry away. i certainly wouldn't have wanted to give up a first rounder for chandler (especially with hindsight given the talent of dd and davis). after that, we're looking at guys like Calderon as tradeable assets, and even with taking back diaw's contract we still couldn't get that done.

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How can you possibly claim that "Bosh was hard to build around" when we couldn't put a SINGLE all-star next to him in 7 years?
isn't the fact that we couldn't get a real allstar in 7 years not proof that he is hard to build around? seems like it to me.

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Kind of ridiculous if you ask me. We had a guy who came within a hair's breadth of avging 20 + 10 for 4 straight years and it's tough to build around him? Just can't buy it. How do OTHER teams build around their big men? Why is it so difficult for us?

well, there's the canada thing, there's the tj and garbo injuries that set us back with contract on the books and little to show for it, forcing bc to get low quality pg's and play guys like joey at the 3/4 and look to washed up vets like jo to try to find post defence, there's guys like salmons and his nonsense from upon high, there's weak drafts, there was an experiment to try to win a certain way that didn't work out...

see, none of these are excuses for forgiveness, by any stretch, but they are reasons why we had some trouble putting solid players around bosh. we made a great run before tj and garbo went down, and he made reasonable moves to try to secure veterans to play with bosh. ball handling, post defence, experience - these are things we were all asking for. if you think it wasn't hard to find a more appropriate set of guys, i think you are understating the complexities of working within the cba and with egos. i've said it before, and i'll say it again - i'd love to see some reasonable alternatives that were possible and easier. otherwise this is pure speculation with nothing to back it up.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:51 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Honestly... WTF does that even mean?
bosh spent a lot of time in the summer of '09 to bulk up and his production improved dramatically. By coincidence, that was the summer before his contract year. After he signed his big contract, he announced that he's not going to continue to do that, because the added bulk hurt his game. That's a statement that qualified for a WTF???

Bottom line is that Bosh from '06 to '09 had spent a minimal amount of time improving his game in the off-season. With his body and his skill-set, he should have been the most dominant PF of this generation. If he was willing to put in the work in the off-season and to play hard every game, he could have been a first team all-defense player. But he wasn't, and unfortunately (for him) he's on the same path as vince carter.

From vince to Bosh to bargnani, it looks like this team is doomed with super-skilled, lazy players. None of the 3 ever came close to reaching their potential, and that hurt this franchise tremendously. And for that reason, I don't miss Bosh, Carter and I won't miss Bargnani when he's gone either.

And the other reason I won't miss him is because in the NBA, if you're mediocre, you're in the worst spot. And that's all we ever been for the past 12 years, on and off. Rather than win 25-40 games every season, I prefer winning 10-15 for two years if that gives us a better shot of catapulting ourselves in the 50+ territory we never visited.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:57 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Bottom line is that Bosh from '06 to '09 had spent a minimal amount of time improving his game in the off-season. With his body and his skill-set, he should have been the most dominant PF of this generation. If he was willing to put in the work in the off-season and to play hard every game, he could have been a first team all-defense player. But he wasn't, and unfortunately (for him) he's on the same path as vince carter.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:58 PM   #67 (permalink)
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bosh spent a lot of time in the summer of '09 to bulk up and his production improved dramatically. By coincidence, that was the summer before his contract year. After he signed his big contract, he announced that he's not going to continue to do that, because the added bulk hurt his game. That's a statement that qualified for a WTF???

Bottom line is that Bosh from '06 to '09 had spent a minimal amount of time improving his game in the off-season. With his body and his skill-set, he should have been the most dominant PF of this generation. If he was willing to put in the work in the off-season and to play hard every game, he could have been a first team all-defense player. But he wasn't, and unfortunately (for him) he's on the same path as vince carter.

From vince to Bosh to bargnani, it looks like this team is doomed with super-skilled, lazy players. None of the 3 ever came close to reaching their potential, and that hurt this franchise tremendously. And for that reason, I don't miss Bosh, Carter and I won't miss Bargnani when he's gone either.

And the other reason I won't miss him is because in the NBA, if you're mediocre, you're in the worst spot. And that's all we ever been for the past 12 years, on and off. Rather than win 25-40 games every season, I prefer winning 10-15 for two years if that gives us a better shot of catapulting ourselves in the 50+ territory we never visited.
Don't say that Bosh didn't play hard for us. I don't think that was ever an issue.

During '06-'09 he had spent his summers with Team USA.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:01 PM   #68 (permalink)
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bosh spent a lot of time in the summer of '09 to bulk up and his production improved dramatically. By coincidence, that was the summer before his contract year. After he signed his big contract, he announced that he's not going to continue to do that, because the added bulk hurt his game. That's a statement that qualified for a WTF???

Bottom line is that Bosh from '06 to '09 had spent a minimal amount of time improving his game in the off-season. With his body and his skill-set, he should have been the most dominant PF of this generation. If he was willing to put in the work in the off-season and to play hard every game, he could have been a first team all-defense player. But he wasn't, and unfortunately (for him) he's on the same path as vince carter.

From vince to Bosh to bargnani, it looks like this team is doomed with super-skilled, lazy players. None of the 3 ever came close to reaching their potential, and that hurt this franchise tremendously. And for that reason, I don't miss Bosh, Carter and I won't miss Bargnani when he's gone either.

And the other reason I won't miss him is because in the NBA, if you're mediocre, you're in the worst spot. And that's all we ever been for the past 12 years, on and off. Rather than win 25-40 games every season, I prefer winning 10-15 for two years if that gives us a better shot of catapulting ourselves in the 50+ territory we never visited.
wow....overrating much?
his skinny frame and outside shooting leads to believe he has the body and skill set to be the most dominating PF of this generation??
good thing your not working as a scout
hes a year after year all-star.....hes no superstar
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:02 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Bottom line is that Bosh from '06 to '09 had spent a minimal amount of time improving his game in the off-season. With his body and his skill-set, he should have been the most dominant PF of this generation. If he was willing to put in the work in the off-season and to play hard every game, he could have been a first team all-defense player. But he wasn't, and unfortunately (for him) he's on the same path as vince carter.
I hope you're kidding
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:04 PM   #70 (permalink)
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bosh spent a lot of time in the summer of '09 to bulk up and his production improved dramatically. By coincidence, that was the summer before his contract year. After he signed his big contract, he announced that he's not going to continue to do that, because the added bulk hurt his game. That's a statement that qualified for a WTF???

Bottom line is that Bosh from '06 to '09 had spent a minimal amount of time improving his game in the off-season. With his body and his skill-set, he should have been the most dominant PF of this generation. If he was willing to put in the work in the off-season and to play hard every game, he could have been a first team all-defense player. But he wasn't, and unfortunately (for him) he's on the same path as vince carter.

From vince to Bosh to bargnani, it looks like this team is doomed with super-skilled, lazy players. None of the 3 ever came close to reaching their potential, and that hurt this franchise tremendously. And for that reason, I don't miss Bosh, Carter and I won't miss Bargnani when he's gone either.

And the other reason I won't miss him is because in the NBA, if you're mediocre, you're in the worst spot. And that's all we ever been for the past 12 years, on and off. Rather than win 25-40 games every season, I prefer winning 10-15 for two years if that gives us a better shot of catapulting ourselves in the 50+ territory we never visited.
That seems a little off. First of all the guy made it to a high level through hard work. He did improve year by year. It's really hard to see where you assess that he had what it takes to be the greatest PF in a generation. That's crazy talk. He's a very good player that made something of himself by playing as hard as he could. He reached his potential, but never got a chance to prove himself in the playoffs. We'll see if he takes advantage of that opportunity soon. But he's still not going to be Karl Malone or Tim Duncan. That's just some crazy expectations that have no basis to make it easy to compare him to Carter and Bargnani.

And Miami did not want him to bulk up. They wanted him lean and mean. They did not want him as a Center in the way that he was relied on here due to Andrea being unable to defend the 5. It was not a case of signing a contract and being lazy.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:05 PM   #71 (permalink)
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if only we could have added lebron and wade, with Bosh that trio would have dominated the league for years to come ... uh, nevermind ...

I think it's pretty clear now that a title-team with Bosh as the best player was never a realistic idea to begin with. If they paired Bosh with wade and lebron, and they're still not winning 60 games, what were the chances of us doing anything of substance even in the unlikely event we could have attracted two other all stars of lesser value than Bosh.

Look back at all the title winning teams of the past and count how many of those were led by a one-dimensional players like Bosh? The answer is none. On all title teams, the best, and usually the best two (or two of the best 3) players were accomplished two-way players. Kobe/bynum, KG/Pierce, Duncan/Manu, Shaq/Wade, Billups/Rasheed, Shaq/Kobe, see the trend?
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:06 PM   #72 (permalink)
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bosh spent a lot of time in the summer of '09 to bulk up and his production improved dramatically. By coincidence, that was the summer before his contract year. After he signed his big contract, he announced that he's not going to continue to do that, because the added bulk hurt his game. That's a statement that qualified for a WTF???

Bottom line is that Bosh from '06 to '09 had spent a minimal amount of time improving his game in the off-season. With his body and his skill-set, he should have been the most dominant PF of this generation. If he was willing to put in the work in the off-season and to play hard every game, he could have been a first team all-defense player. But he wasn't, and unfortunately (for him) he's on the same path as vince carter.

From vince to Bosh to bargnani, it looks like this team is doomed with super-skilled, lazy players. None of the 3 ever came close to reaching their potential, and that hurt this franchise tremendously. And for that reason, I don't miss Bosh, Carter and I won't miss Bargnani when he's gone either.

And the other reason I won't miss him is because in the NBA, if you're mediocre, you're in the worst spot. And that's all we ever been for the past 12 years, on and off. Rather than win 25-40 games every season, I prefer winning 10-15 for two years if that gives us a better shot of catapulting ourselves in the 50+ territory we never visited.
I recall reading somewhere that part of the reason that Bosh slimmed down in the off-season was to be quicker and more mobile.... can't be sure though.

Regardless... I think that you're reaching to put Bargs, VC and Bosh all in the same sentence. You can't argue that Bosh gave it his all while he was under contract to us. You may not have liked the way that he left... but he busted his ass when he was here (unless you think he could have put up 25 + 15?).
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:08 PM   #73 (permalink)
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if only we could have added lebron and wade, with Bosh that trio would have dominated the league for years to come ... uh, nevermind ...

I think it's pretty clear now that a title-team with Bosh as the best player was never a realistic idea to begin with. If they paired Bosh with wade and lebron, and they're still not winning 60 games, what were the chances of us doing anything of substance even in the unlikely event we could have attracted two other all stars of lesser value than Bosh.

Look back at all the title winning teams of the past and count how many of those were led by a one-dimensional players like Bosh? The answer is none. On all title teams, the best, and usually the best two (or two of the best 3) players were accomplished two-way players. Kobe/bynum, KG/Pierce, Duncan/Manu, Shaq/Wade, Billups/Rasheed, Shaq/Kobe, see the trend?
I DO see the trend.... a superstar big man is paired with a superstar guard/wing.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:08 PM   #74 (permalink)
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The Bosh and Carter comparison is...
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:10 PM   #75 (permalink)
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if only we could have added lebron and wade, with Bosh that trio would have dominated the league for years to come ... uh, nevermind ...

I think it's pretty clear now that a title-team with Bosh as the best player was never a realistic idea to begin with. If they paired Bosh with wade and lebron, and they're still not winning 60 games, what were the chances of us doing anything of substance even in the unlikely event we could have attracted two other all stars of lesser value than Bosh.

Look back at all the title winning teams of the past and count how many of those were led by a one-dimensional players like Bosh? The answer is none. On all title teams, the best, and usually the best two (or two of the best 3) players were accomplished two-way players. Kobe/bynum, KG/Pierce, Duncan/Manu, Shaq/Wade, Billups/Rasheed, Shaq/Kobe, see the trend?

whats ur point? no ones disputing that....
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:14 PM   #76 (permalink)
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if only we could have added lebron and wade, with Bosh that trio would have dominated the league for years to come ... uh, nevermind ...

I think it's pretty clear now that a title-team with Bosh as the best player was never a realistic idea to begin with. If they paired Bosh with wade and lebron, and they're still not winning 60 games, what were the chances of us doing anything of substance even in the unlikely event we could have attracted two other all stars of lesser value than Bosh.

Look back at all the title winning teams of the past and count how many of those were led by a one-dimensional players like Bosh? The answer is none. On all title teams, the best, and usually the best two (or two of the best 3) players were accomplished two-way players. Kobe/bynum, KG/Pierce, Duncan/Manu, Shaq/Wade, Billups/Rasheed, Shaq/Kobe, see the trend?
Dude - you are all over the map. Now he's just a one-dimensional player? He's been a good defensive player for years now. His mentality does not zero in on defense enough, but he is hardly one-dimensional.

And no - I don't see the trend. You're saying Bynum is an accomplished two-way player? Pierce spent years with the same mindset as Bosh. The trend I see is the need for more than one, and actually more than two really good players, and a cast that compliments each other in carrying out effective game plans. It's not about having the right player or two and adding water and watching a title contender grow. The whole team needs to be looked at. The most powerful engine isn't worth much with a broken drive shaft.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:23 PM   #77 (permalink)
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That seems a little off. First of all the guy made it to a high level through hard work. He did improve year by year. It's really hard to see where you assess that he had what it takes to be the greatest PF in a generation. That's crazy talk. He's a very good player that made something of himself by playing as hard as he could. He reached his potential, but never got a chance to prove himself in the playoffs. We'll see if he takes advantage of that opportunity soon. But he's still not going to be Karl Malone or Tim Duncan. That's just some crazy expectations that have no basis to make it easy to compare him to Carter and Bargnani.
that's bs, all nba players work hard - it's obviously all relative. Compared to the hard-workers of the NBA, bosh, Carter and andrea are all slackers. You can argue the extent of their laziness, but you'd have to really twist logic to call Bosh a hard-worker or over-achiever. Bosh was just as athletic as KG was, and they both got the same coach to start their career. Only one turned out to be a hall of famer and a one of the best defensive players of his generation ...
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And Miami did not want him to bulk up. They wanted him lean and mean. They did not want him as a Center in the way that he was relied on here due to Andrea being unable to defend the 5. It was not a case of signing a contract and being lazy.
and this is even bigger bs.

1. Bosh played 0 minutes at center last season (defensively where it really matters). He didn't bang with howard in the post, andrea did, as lazy as he is.
2. Miami clearly needed him to play center, more badly than we did.
3. Lebron is a SF who is heavier than Bosh, despite giving up two inches. And he's as lean and mean as it gets.
4. Bosh never made any mention to Miami wanted him not to bulk up. I would be shocked if Miami asked him to do that. I'm not sure where you got that information, but chances are it's not accurate.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:24 PM   #78 (permalink)
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all i'm saying is that with both jo and marion he went for defense. neither one wanted to be here in the long run, and it didn't work. i don't know what you meany by 'an honest shot'. surely you don't mean that bc was being dishonest, so i take that to mean that he didn't try hard. not sure how it could be proven that he didn't. not sure it is even relevant. i just don't get what you mean by this., were they great players? no. i'm still waiting for someone to show me the slam dunk alternative.
We've been through this before. Marion was looking for money and would have certainly stayed if we had paid him more than the Mavs. He just wanted what he considered "fair value" for his skills. And TBH I would have gladly paid him. His skills were EXACTLY what this team needed.


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would love to hear who you think was available and who we could have traded for them. i can list lots of guys that i would love to have, but good players are not easy to pry away. i certainly wouldn't have wanted to give up a first rounder for chandler (especially with hindsight given the talent of dd and davis). after that, we're looking at guys like Calderon as tradeable assets, and even with taking back diaw's contract we still couldn't get that done.
Not sure what you want me to say 'trane. Any player that I listed you could probably shoot down and simply claim that it would have been impossible to get them. Chandler was decent... even back then... but he wasn't an untradeable star by any means.


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isn't the fact that we couldn't get a real allstar in 7 years not proof that he is hard to build around? seems like it to me.
No. Because we could have drafted one. Perhaps acquired an extra 1st round pick one year?



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well, there's the canada thing, there's the tj and garbo injuries that set us back with contract on the books and little to show for it, forcing bc to get low quality pg's and play guys like joey at the 3/4 and look to washed up vets like jo to try to find post defence, there's guys like salmons and his nonsense from upon high, there's weak drafts, there was an experiment to try to win a certain way that didn't work out...

see, none of these are excuses for forgiveness, by any stretch, but they are reasons why we had some trouble putting solid players around bosh. we made a great run before tj and garbo went down, and he made reasonable moves to try to secure veterans to play with bosh. ball handling, post defence, experience - these are things we were all asking for. if you think it wasn't hard to find a more appropriate set of guys, i think you are understating the complexities of working within the cba and with egos. i've said it before, and i'll say it again - i'd love to see some reasonable alternatives that were possible and easier. otherwise this is pure speculation with nothing to back it up.
And then there's also BC's admitted infatuation with building a "euroball team"... "PHX East"... a team that values scoring more than defense.

I watched Chris Webber go to SAC back in the late 90's and they did a MARVELLOUS job of surrounding him with quality players. Made a heck of a team too.... in a small market (which is now going to be moving).

Now it goes without saying that Webber > Bosh but I think that you get my point...
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:25 PM   #79 (permalink)
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I DO see the trend.... a superstar big man is paired with a superstar guard/wing.
exactly, and we had none
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:25 PM   #80 (permalink)
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whats ur point? no ones disputing that....
actually torap is ...
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