Do you want Bryan Colangelo back next season? - Page 3

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View Poll Results: Do you want Bryan Colangelo back next season?
Yes, let him finish what he has started 65 79.27%
No, his time is up 17 20.73%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-11-2011, 06:21 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Boom. Last year I posted a long write up about why Bosh isn't a centerpiece of a team and thus did not merit a max contract, people got mad at me, chairs were thrown.

No but seriously you're right. Having to cater to Bosh completely fucked his decision making abilities and tied his hands on many issues. I vote another two years to rebuild and stock the cupboard (a la Burke) with young talent. We're not going to get better any other way and he made GREAT picks in Ed and Demar. I really don't think it's fair to cut him off now that Bosh, who really is part of the reason we're in the mess we're in right now, is gone.

Also, to all of you guys who have a list of GM's that are far more qualified for the position than BC, my question to you is: Why don't they have a job already if they're so perfect for the GM position of the Raps? (other than Barkley, cuz he would be awesome)
Wha?? How on earth would having an all-star make things WORSE for a GM? We went from 40 wins last season to what will probably amount to 22 or 23 wins this season!

Colangelo has made some decent moves... no disputing that.... but the fact of the matter is that he's been at the helm for 7 seasons now and the team is EXACTLY where it was when he came aboard years ago (minus the cap flexibility). He's made some HORRIBLE moves as well and his philosophy in regards to building a team has been questionable.
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:20 AM   #42 (permalink)
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if the dude made his star player the de facto GM, then he needs to go now
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:34 AM   #43 (permalink)
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He was trying to stop a tsunami with twigs and leaves. Bosh was on his way out.

It was fine until BC was building a balanced team, but when he started chasing "win now" stuff, risky moves just didn't work out.

An you have to give him that he is good in finding deals and getting rid of players he doesn't like. Thats how you avoid being a treadmill team.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:00 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Wha?? How on earth would having an all-star make things WORSE for a GM? We went from 40 wins last season to what will probably amount to 22 or 23 wins this season!

Colangelo has made some decent moves... no disputing that.... but the fact of the matter is that he's been at the helm for 7 seasons now and the team is EXACTLY where it was when he came aboard years ago (minus the cap flexibility). He's made some HORRIBLE moves as well and his philosophy in regards to building a team has been questionable.
Hedo, Jermaine, Jose's contract (to an extent) were all mistakes that were put in place to keep Bosh here. I know BC was said to have all the control in the world but I doubt that MLSE was going "its ok let Bosh walk". They wanted him here to sell tickets and push their product. Bosh made this team worse, I know it doesn't look like that right now, but he really did. We NEVER would have been an above 500 team with him here because we would never have had a proper rotation with Jose feeding him his 20-10 every night.

Bosh made BC's job far harder than it needed to be. I'm happy hes gone. Now let BC have 2 more years and then we can fire him if we're not happy.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:26 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Hedo, Jermaine, Jose's contract (to an extent) were all mistakes that were put in place to keep Bosh here. I know BC was said to have all the control in the world but I doubt that MLSE was going "its ok let Bosh walk". They wanted him here to sell tickets and push their product. Bosh made this team worse, I know it doesn't look like that right now, but he really did. We NEVER would have been an above 500 team with him here because we would never have had a proper rotation with Jose feeding him his 20-10 every night.

Bosh made BC's job far harder than it needed to be. I'm happy hes gone. Now let BC have 2 more years and then we can fire him if we're not happy.
Jose's contract had nothing to do with "keeping Bosh here".

Jermaine was an attempt to make the most of a bad situation with TJ's injury. It was decent value with that expiring contract down the road.

Hedo was about BC having a fetish for Hedo. At the time of all the moves he said that the team in place would work well with or without Bosh. The Hedo move was seen as being as much about having some insurance in case Bosh didn't return.

There's just no way a respectable GM can say that a start player that doesn't make impossible demands makes his job harder. And again - even in that scenario - it's on the GM to do something about it. Making out like BC was some helpless sap that was forced to make terrible moves does very little to give me confidence in the guy's abilities. Yuck. I wouldn't cry if he didn't come back, but I have to give him a lot more credit than that.

I will say that Bosh and Colangelo did not work out so well together, and that probably would not have changed too much had Bosh stayed. Needing to start from scratch has proved to be a healthy exercise for Bryan.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:48 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Jose's contract had nothing to do with "keeping Bosh here".

Jermaine was an attempt to make the most of a bad situation with TJ's injury. It was decent value with that expiring contract down the road.

Hedo was about BC having a fetish for Hedo. At the time of all the moves he said that the team in place would work well with or without Bosh. The Hedo move was seen as being as much about having some insurance in case Bosh didn't return.

There's just no way a respectable GM can say that a start player that doesn't make impossible demands makes his job harder. And again - even in that scenario - it's on the GM to do something about it. Making out like BC was some helpless sap that was forced to make terrible moves does very little to give me confidence in the guy's abilities. Yuck. I wouldn't cry if he didn't come back, but I have to give him a lot more credit than that.

I will say that Bosh and Colangelo did not work out so well together, and that probably would not have changed too much had Bosh stayed. Needing to start from scratch has proved to be a healthy exercise for Bryan.
Losing Bosh was a godsend for this franchise.

I'm not making him out to be a sap LX, I am merely saying Bosh forced his hand on a few issues. I agree signing Hedo was more out of a man fetish and desperation to do something rather than truly addressing a need, as was proved, you dont need a point forward when you have Jose and Jack.

Give the guy another 2 years, like I said before, everyone who wants him gone has a list of GM's that are more suitable for the job, the majority of which are out of work as of now, which only shows how "qualified" they really are. I admit BC has fucked up on some major issues, but I don't think its fair to him or the players we have now to go in another direction. He's still a good GM with a good reputation despite his recent woes, that's further shown by the rumours of him going to the Knicks. The team is beginning to gel, keep BC another 2 years let him fix his mistakes and then reassess. We're not going to be championship material in that time anyway.

It's the same thing with Triano. Who cares if hes here for another two years? As long as hes not here long term as part of the big picture it really doesn't matter. He's decent at developing the youth of our team and that's what matters right now.
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Old 04-11-2011, 01:26 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Losing Bosh was a godsend for this franchise.

I'm not making him out to be a sap LX, I am merely saying Bosh forced his hand on a few issues. I agree signing Hedo was more out of a man fetish and desperation to do something rather than truly addressing a need, as was proved, you dont need a point forward when you have Jose and Jack.

Give the guy another 2 years, like I said before, everyone who wants him gone has a list of GM's that are more suitable for the job, the majority of which are out of work as of now, which only shows how "qualified" they really are. I admit BC has fucked up on some major issues, but I don't think its fair to him or the players we have now to go in another direction. He's still a good GM with a good reputation despite his recent woes, that's further shown by the rumours of him going to the Knicks. The team is beginning to gel, keep BC another 2 years let him fix his mistakes and then reassess. We're not going to be championship material in that time anyway.

It's the same thing with Triano. Who cares if hes here for another two years? As long as hes not here long term as part of the big picture it really doesn't matter. He's decent at developing the youth of our team and that's what matters right now.
I'm still completely stupified when I hear comments like this..... after watching everything that we've had to watch this season I'm not sure how anyone can say that with a straight face.

We struggled to win games with Bosh because there really wasn't much here around him. Plain & simple. An unmotivated (and overpaid) Hedo... a gimpy JO.... what have these players done since they were in a Raps uni? They were both stop gaps at best. The only player that still seemed to have had some gas in the tank (Marion) was dealt away.

Kinda crazy if you ask me. How long do we have to give BC to build a winner here? 10 years? I mean... really?
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Old 04-11-2011, 01:39 PM   #48 (permalink)
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From day one I thought Colangelo's job was to make Toronto an attractive destination with some buzz. That was his job, not Bosh's. Was it an easy task? - no, but not impossible. And considering that he got off to a winning start, it definitely seemed feasible. But then he failed to see what kind of players he truly had, and he put too much of an onus on Bosh to bring all the sexy while playing into Bosh's offensive mindset and saddling him with weak defenders all over the place. With that failing BC blamed Mitchell. Then he threw Bosh under the bus, and he probably gets a pass on that one, although it demonstrates how he simply has not come very far in that goal of making this franchise look solid.

Now the onus is really on him to make this look like a great place to play basketball. Having a group of guys developing together is helpful. He really needs to convert that into something before Toronto really does end up being like the NBA version of Siberia.
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Old 04-11-2011, 01:51 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I'm still completely stupified when I hear comments like this..... after watching everything that we've had to watch this season I'm not sure how anyone can say that with a straight face.

We struggled to win games with Bosh because there really wasn't much here around him. Plain & simple. An unmotivated (and overpaid) Hedo... a gimpy JO.... what have these players done since they were in a Raps uni? They were both stop gaps at best. The only player that still seemed to have had some gas in the tank (Marion) was dealt away.

Kinda crazy if you ask me. How long do we have to give BC to build a winner here? 10 years? I mean... really?
are you stupified because you don't understand the point that has been made to you a million times or because you don't agree with it? if it is that you don't agree, why not at least acknowledge that the point is not in reference to the number of wins this year, nor the quality of players that surrounded him in past years?

losing Bosh was good because it allows us to rebuild and to try to create a balanced team that we did not have while he was here. this is not to say, and i have made this point to you so many times my head is spinning, that we are better off in terms of wins this year, nor that it is bosh's fault that we were in that situation. telling us that Bosh would have won us more games in 2010-11 and that he was never surrounded by the right players in prior seasons is not relevant when the point being made. as fans, many of us are happy to lose games for a couple of years if it puts us back on track to build a banaced, competitive team. whether this happens or not remaines to be seen, but i think losing Bosh allowed us that opportunity, and for that reason was a plus. i wouldn't say godsend, because that's just not a reasonable idea, but it was definitely a positive opportunity in regards to the future direction of the franchise.

for those that are ok with a season or two of losing in return for a chance to be competitiv with a balanced young team that grows together, the idea of losing Bosh is a positive because we would not have had the opportunity to rebuild if we were saddled with paying him the max. it is as simple as that. disagree as you will, but the number of wins this year and the quality of his teammates last year are irrelevant to those that begin with an acceptance that it is worth going through a rough patch to rebuild.
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:00 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I don't miss Bosh either. I didn't really like his game. Scoring PFs are very difficult to build around.

We never had good young players to build with Bosh. Maybe TJ + Jose, but they played the same position.

Right now we've got at least DeMar and Ed. Bayless and JJ are hopefully going to develop well. Maybe Amir, too. Add to that a good draft pick and all that needs to be done is to make sure the coaches are bringing them along and the future looks good.

I like the direction the team is headed, so I think we should keep the GM that made it happen.

Colangelo made some decisions that didn't work out, made some that did. Looking forward things look good, so he did well IMO.
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:05 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Anybody who wants Bryan back is either insane (according to the old definition/adage of "Doing the same thing and expecting different results") or has retained nothing in their long-term memory regarding him (summer 2007 till now of continually being undersold in transactions, or getting peices that didn't fit in the first place like Hedo, and generally doing things that make no rational sense).

Thus far, 56 people in the poll show signs of insanity or flaws in their long-term memory.

Last edited by bladeofBG; 04-11-2011 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:23 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Anybody who wants Bryan back is either insane (according to the old definition/adage of "Doing the same thing and expecting different results") or has retained nothing in their long-term memory regarding him (summer 2007 till now of continually being undersold in transactions, or getting peices that didn't fit in the first place like Hedo, and generally doing things that make no rational sense).

Thus far, 56 people in the poll show signs of insanity or flaws in their long-term memory.
yes.... it's the majority that are insane.
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:33 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Anybody who wants Bryan back is either insane (according to the old definition/adage of "Doing the same thing and expecting different results") or has retained nothing in their long-term memory regarding him (summer 2007 till now of continually being undersold in transactions, or getting peices that didn't fit in the first place like Hedo, and generally doing things that make no rational sense).

Thus far, 56 people in the poll show signs of insanity or flaws in their long-term memory.
Do you have faith in MLSE to bring in someone better?
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:36 PM   #54 (permalink)
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yes.... it's the majority that are insane.
Not to mention the majority stakeholder of MLSE. Indeed, BC has had some big strikeouts, the only thing saving his job were his solid draft choices of Derozan and Ed Davis. SELL, SELL, SELL your vision or its time to work for poppa again.
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:38 PM   #55 (permalink)
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are you stupified because you don't understand the point that has been made to you a million times or because you don't agree with it? if it is that you don't agree, why not at least acknowledge that the point is not in reference to the number of wins this year, nor the quality of players that surrounded him in past years?

losing Bosh was good because it allows us to rebuild and to try to create a balanced team that we did not have while he was here. this is not to say, and i have made this point to you so many times my head is spinning, that we are better off in terms of wins this year, nor that it is bosh's fault that we were in that situation. telling us that Bosh would have won us more games in 2010-11 and that he was never surrounded by the right players in prior seasons is not relevant when the point being made. as fans, many of us are happy to lose games for a couple of years if it puts us back on track to build a banaced, competitive team. whether this happens or not remaines to be seen, but i think losing Bosh allowed us that opportunity, and for that reason was a plus. i wouldn't say godsend, because that's just not a reasonable idea, but it was definitely a positive opportunity in regards to the future direction of the franchise.

for those that are ok with a season or two of losing in return for a chance to be competitiv with a balanced young team that grows together, the idea of losing Bosh is a positive because we would not have had the opportunity to rebuild if we were saddled with paying him the max. it is as simple as that. disagree as you will, but the number of wins this year and the quality of his teammates last year are irrelevant to those that begin with an acceptance that it is worth going through a rough patch to rebuild.
I'll break it down for you again 'trane just so we're clear here.

ONE max player doesn't even come close to "bankrupting" a team. Even IF Bosh would have been given the max, his production (based on last year's numbers) would have warranted it. Rudy Gay and JJ are making the max right now... so is Amare.... would he really have been so out of place?

The problem lies in the REST of the roster and the contracts that BC doled out left, right and center to guys who were ALL OFFENSE... NO DEFENSE.

Jose... Bargs.. Hedo (which has since turned into LB)... Kleiza.... how much money is/was tied into those players? Players who (other than Jose perhaps) never complimented Bosh's skills. Why did we bother squandering money rather than just acquiring picks and filling out the roster with young (cheap)players?

The plain simple root of the matter is this..... you need STARS to win in this league. More than one.... or else you're going to struggle. Period.

I put a lot of blame on BC because we HAD one piece of the puzzle here.... a piece that A LOT of other teams wanted... but he did a very poor job of building around that piece. Excuses be damned.

I don't have a problem with people saying that they'd just prefer to "go in another direction".... but the whole "Bosh never lead this team anywhere... he was too hard to build around" is total B.S. It's an excuse perpetrated by a GM who made A LOT of mistakes... mistakes that ended up blowing up in his face.
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:42 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I'll break it down for you again 'trane just so we're clear here.

ONE max player doesn't even come close to "bankrupting" a team. Even IF Bosh would have been given the max, his production (based on last year's numbers) would have warranted it. Rudy Gay and JJ are making the max right now... so is Amare.... would he really have been so out of place?

The problem lies in the REST of the roster and the contracts that BC doled out left, right and center to guys who were ALL OFFENSE... NO DEFENSE.

Jose... Bargs.. Hedo (which has since turned into LB)... Kleiza.... how much money is/was tied into those players? Players who (other than Jose perhaps) never complimented Bosh's skills. Why did we bother squandering money rather than just acquiring picks and filling out the roster with young (cheap)players?

The plain simple root of the matter is this..... you need STARS to win in this league. More than one.... or else you're going to struggle. Period.

I put a lot of blame on BC because we HAD one piece of the puzzle here.... a piece that A LOT of other teams wanted... but he did a very poor job of building around that piece. Excuses be damned.

I don't have a problem with people saying that they'd just prefer to "go in another direction".... but the whole "Bosh never lead this team anywhere... he was too hard to build around" is total B.S. It's an excuse perpetrated by a GM who made A LOT of mistakes... mistakes that ended up blowing up in his face.
Bosh was one of those all offense no defense players.... lol
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:45 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Bosh was one of those all offense no defense players.... lol
If Jose, Bargs, Hedo or Kleiza were all-stars capable of avging 20 + 10 and taking over games you wouldn't hear a peep from me.
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:45 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Its funny how so many of you have been bashing BC for most of the year (including this thread) yet 77% of people want him back? I'm confused.....

The relationship with BC and RF

BC - So how have the last seven years been fr you?
RF -(2010/2011) You suck, I hate you, your stupid, I could do better then you, you need to be replaced... now!
BC- really, OK well you could replace me starting July 1 if thats how you feel
RF- No, stay, i will give you another chance. Don't go....

you guys gotta make up your minds.
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:46 PM   #59 (permalink)
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ONE max player doesn't even come close to "bankrupting" a team.
Actually, with the new CBA coming up it just might have. With MLSe at the helm, we would never be able to go over the lux tax, so this team would have been "bankrupted"
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:49 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Bosh was one of those all offense no defense players.... lol
he was when he was squeezed into that sort of unbalanced team, that pushed for offense at the expense of defense.

For me the bottom line is that BC and Bosh were just a bad mix. Colangelo rates offense far too highly. His idea of complimenting Bosh was to add more offensive weapons. Balance was not really an option. It was a necessity for Mitchell, and Sam did succeed to an extent. Then too much emphasis was placed on JO as a defensive cure-all, and it was hard to see where this team was supposed to be going from there.
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