Do we take Bosh for granted?
Old 08-22-2008, 11:19 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Do we take Bosh for granted?

Just reading Scott Carefoot's little blurb at his and Raptorman's site RaptorBlog, made me wonder if we really do take CB4 for granted on what he can do in this league and for this team. I've been harsh on him at times, but considering what we've seen from him so far this summer can we attribute this so called success on who he's playing at the Olympics with or should Chris himself get alot of the credit?

Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Carefoot
Sometimes I think Raptors fans take Chris Bosh for granted. He's a three-time All Star at the age of 24. After a promising debut in 2003 at the age of 19, every season after that has been better than the one before. He seems like a genuinely nice guy who is well-liked by teammates and coaches. Two-thirds of the GMs in the league would trade anyone on their roster for him. He's funnier than Gilbert Arenas.

And now, with his impressive performance so far in Beijing, the rest of the world is finding out what we already knew but sometimes let ourselves forget while arguing about T.J. vs. Jose or Bargnani vs. a cardboard cutout of Dirk Nowitzki that the young fella from up there in Canada is pretty darn good.

In much the same way that Paul Pierce was energized by the addition of Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett to the Celtics, I think Chris Bosh is going to be super-pumped and ready to wreak some havoc on the league with his new frontcourt partner in crime, Jermaine O'Neal. He is the undisputed leader of the most talented Raptors team yet, and he's the first reason I can't wait for NBA basketball to return.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Yes. Absolutely.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:35 AM   #3 (permalink)
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no.

we love him.

so we yell at him.

it's called love.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
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It's tough love
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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No he is overrated.

Yep I said it.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Hey everyone. First post. Nice lookin' forum. I particularly enjoy the "Wife" button.

I'm mostly posting here because Doc asked in my blog comments if it was OK to quote and link to me. I encourage people to do this as often as you like. I'm trying to get the word out that RaptorBlog is back with a vengeance.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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So what you're saying is, we yell because we care?

Nice.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzo View Post
No he is overrated.

Yep I said it.
So you disagree with my statement that two-thirds of the GMs in the NBA would trade any player on their team for him? If so, I'd be interested to see you name the teams and the specific players that you would value higher than Bosh.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:40 AM   #9 (permalink)
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agee with SJ.

I think 95% of raptor fans out there realize that he's the heart and soul of our team and that he's the go-to guy. If we're critical, it's becuase we care and it's because we hold him to such a high standard becuase he's that good at what he does. And guess what? That comes with the territory of being a franchise player.

There are always going to be haters or fans that take criticism too far. It's the nature of the beast. Every team in every sport has delusional fans.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:42 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Carefoot View Post
So you disagree with my statement that two-thirds of the GMs in the NBA would trade any player on their team for him? If so, I'd be interested to see you name the teams and the specific players that you would value higher than Bosh.
Benzo just disagrees. period.

You'll catch on soon enough.

Oh. And Superjudge is trouble as well.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Carefoot View Post
Hey everyone. First post. Nice lookin' forum. I particularly enjoy the "Wife" button.

I'm mostly posting here because Doc asked in my blog comments if it was OK to quote and link to me. I encourage people to do this as often as you like. I'm trying to get the word out that RaptorBlog is back with a vengeance.
Hey, hey ... welcome Scott ... I wasn't expecting this at all. It's a pleasure and an honor.

For those here who don't know Scott or haven't followed his blog RaptorBlog (one of the original if not the first Raptors dedicated blog) from over the years here's a clip from CBC a few years ago. (hope you don't mind Scott)

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Old 08-22-2008, 11:46 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Carefoot View Post
So you disagree with my statement that two-thirds of the GMs in the NBA would trade any player on their team for him? If so, I'd be interested to see you name the teams and the specific players that you would value higher than Bosh.
Like the blog Scott, and my problems with Bosh have been noted on more than one occassion.

While he is 24 and a 3 time all-star, if he played in the West he would be 0 time all-star.

In Bejing he is playing better defense than we have ever seen him play, now is that SMitch, or the players around him , I don't know...nobody does. He has been terrible on D for us, especially when it matters most. In the playoffs last year, he took 4 3pts in a game I think and has shown a reluctance to get to the hoop when we need him too.

I still think he is better suited to a guy that helps the superstar, much like AJ in Washington is to Gilbert when he is healthy.

Perfect example is when Toronto fans started with the "MVP" chant a few years ago....did we overrate him then...absolutly.

You said it though he is 24, there is hope on the horizon.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I still think he is better suited to a guy that helps the superstar, much like AJ in Washington is to Gilbert when he is healthy.
I don't disagree with you on this point. For the Raptors to be a true championship contender, they probably need a true Top 5 player and Bosh will probably never be that good. If you look at most championship teams, their second-best player is arguably on or close to Bosh's level.

Of course, it's not Bosh's fault that Colangelo botched the 2006 draft so badly. The Raptors could have Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay instead of Bargnani right now and this team would be a legit contender.
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Carefoot View Post
I don't disagree with you on this point. For the Raptors to be a true championship contender, they probably need a true Top 5 player and Bosh will probably never be that good. If you look at most championship teams, their second-best player is arguably on or close to Bosh's level.

Of course, it's not Bosh's fault that Colangelo botched the 2006 draft so badly. The Raptors could have Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay instead of Bargnani right now and this team would be a legit contender.
No way we can judge the 2006 draft today. Rudy Gay makes no-one an immediate contender, and Roy nobody argued would have the best start of anyone in the draft as he is most NBA ready. Bargs upside is crazy, so while we are talking about underrating Bosh, perhaps we should also visit, people jumping ship on the Bargs train because of one average injury plagued season. (looks at Doc)
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Bargs upside is crazy, so while we are talking about underrating Bosh, perhaps we should also visit, people jumping ship on the Bargs train because of one average injury plagued season. (looks at Doc)
Hey ... remember Benzo that I'm turning over a new leaf and am now optimistic regarding Bargs. I can't wait to see him at this year's all-star game.
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Hey ... remember Benzo that I'm turning over a new leaf and am now optimistic regarding Bargs. I can't wait to see him at this year's all-star game.
Good, and I'll have a nice plate of crow for you to munch on while you watch.
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Hey ... remember Benzo that I'm turning over a new leaf and am now optimistic regarding Bargs. I can't wait to see him at this year's all-star game.
6th man of the year is a possibility....unless the sham they are running in SA continues.

Last edited by Benzo; 08-22-2008 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:21 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yea take Ginobli of the bench and since he is so good he always gets the th man award
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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No way we can judge the 2006 draft today. Rudy Gay makes no-one an immediate contender, and Roy nobody argued would have the best start of anyone in the draft as he is most NBA ready.
I know a couple of people who told me going into the draft that B-Roy was clearly the best prospect in that draft -- not just right away but going forward. Just because the so-called "experts" didn't see it that way, that doesn't mean a good GM couldn't have traded down and taken Roy.

Roy had a Player Efficiency Rating (PER) of 19.3 last season compared to Bargnani's rating of 10.6 (after a 12.8 PER in his rookie season). Bargnani would have to make a ridiculous leap in performance to get where Roy is right now, nevermind Roy in his prime.

I give Bargnani 20 games this season to prove he can live up to Colangelo's hype. This talk I've been reading of giving him 5 years to develop is a freakin' joke on a number of levels. Show me a star player who suddenly blossomed in his fifth season and I might give it some credence. True star players like Bosh, Nowitzki and Garnett showed much more promise than Bargnani in their rookie years and then showed significant improvement each subsequent season. Bargnani has to show that kind of improvement this season or else the apologists will officially sound foolish.

Sorry about the thread hijack, but I feel strongly about this topic.

Edited to add: I just thought of an example of a star player who did, in fact, suddenly blossom in his fifth season. It was Jermaine O'Neal in 2000-01, his first season in Indiana. Of course, he was 18 as a rookie and languished on the bench for four seasons in Portland and he was still only 22 when he blossomed. Bargnani will be 23 at the start of this season.

Last edited by Scott Carefoot; 08-22-2008 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:34 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Carefoot View Post
I know a couple of people who told me going into the draft that B-Roy was clearly the best prospect in that draft -- not just right away but going forward. Just because the so-called "experts" didn't see it that way, that doesn't mean a good GM couldn't have traded down and taken Roy.

Roy had a Player Efficiency Rating (PER) of 19.3 last season compared to Bargnani's rating of 10.6 (after a 12.8 PER in his rookie season). Bargnani would have to make a ridiculous leap in performance to get where Roy is right now, nevermind Roy in his prime.

I give Bargnani 20 games this season to prove he can live up to Colangelo's hype. This talk I've been reading of giving him 5 years to develop is a freakin' joke on a number of levels. Show me a star player who suddenly blossomed in his fifth season and I might give it some credence. True star players like Bosh, Nowitzki and Garnett showed much more promise than Bargnani in their rookie years and then showed significant improvement each subsequent season. Bargnani has to show that kind of improvement this season or else the apologists will officially sound foolish.

Sorry about the thread hijack, but I feel strongly about this topic.

Edited to add: I just thought of an example of a star player who did, in fact, suddenly blossom in his fifth season. It was Jermaine O'Neal in 2000-01, his first season in Indiana. Of course, he was 18 as a rookie and languished on the bench for four seasons in Portland and he was still only 22 when he blossomed. Bargnani will be 23 at the start of this season.
Nash had an average of 12 per until his 5th year when t jumped to 18.
Dirk was his third year before he really got it together.
Scottie Pippen was 4th year.
Richard Hamilton never hit a per of 18 till his 4th year.
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