Dino Nation Blog: It Costs A Lot To Look That Good
Old 07-22-2009, 01:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by James Borbath
Yesterday was a basketball junkies delight in the Toronto area. The Jays did not trade their star pitcher and The Leafs did not sign some 4th line guy that can win a hockey scrap. So that made the Raptors signing of Jarrett Jack get a lot of love. Colangelo still has a few thing left to do. It will be interesting to see what he does. I am not on board with signing Carlos Delfino for some stupid amount of money. Yes 5 million for a guy that is coming off a season with injuries in Russia is to much. The Raptors could afford to spend that much cause they have the room under the tax threshold, along with the Bird Rights to Delfino. However, Colangelo did make reference to the expected decline in the cap next year. Which would also mean a decline in the tax threshold as well. Which may mean the Raptors will not use the full space available.

Carlos Delfino for my money has grown in stature by being away for a year. Not saying the guy is a bum or anything. However is he really a vital piece this team can not live without? He was said to be that grit that was missing from the Raptors last year. However has Bryan Colangelo not already done a fine job of addressing that issue? Reggie Evans, Wright, Jack and DeRozan. That is a quarter of the Raptors dressed roster on a given night. He is a streaky shooter and a better than average defender. I would be happy to welcome him for the right price. However just because we hold his "Bird Rights" is not reason to over spend on him. If he is concerned about money he can go back to Russia and have it. I think it was fairly obvious that he did not enjoy his time in Russia.

The Raptors could still sign someone at the veteran minimum and I would be just as happy. Brent Petway who was on the summer league roster is more athletic and is a solid defender as well. He does not over the versatility of a Delfino nor the shooting skill in comparison. However we are talking about a player that would be on the back end of the rotation. If not Brent I am sure there are lots of other options you could bring in for that veteran minimum contract.

There is also the talk of Rasho Nesterovic coming back after a year in exile in Indiana. Rasho has a soft spot for the city and his first child was born here. The talk would be that Raptors could use the Bi-Annual exception to land him. That is 1.9 million more or less. In NBA terms chump change. A far cry from the large contract he had when he was here before. There is far less room to negotiate with Rasho. If he wants to come back to Toronto he can for that amount. He does like Delfino have options in Europe at likely a better pay rate.

The bottom line for me on both is sure it would be nice to have both back. It also seems pretty clear that is these are the first options for Bryan Colangelo as well. However if they do not come back it is far from the end of the world. The major work on the turnover of this team has been done. If the Raptors go elsewhere to fill out the roster it would not mean a heck of a lot. In terms of Delfino to over pay for him would have long term impact on the cap that may not make it worth the bother.

Even though I am happy with what Bryan Colangelo has done. 53 Million and 50 Million for Turkoglu and Bargnani are both risky contracts for me over the long haul. I will say, in terms of Bargnani it could look like a steal as well, it is all up to Andrea. Some say even the number for Jack is on the high side as well. I am not among those. If you have not understood how vital the point guard position is after last year, there really is nothing more that can be said to convince you. But the point is the Raptors if they stick to the MLSE credo to remain under the tax threshold they are walking a very fine line. If this team is successful people will not worry about these things for the next few seasons.

There is also the reality the Chris Bosh will need to be addressed and it seems clear that he should command somewhere close to a max deal if he has a season that is on par or better than his career numbers. So enjoy the present but always remember that there is a future to deal with as well. No one expects the Raptors to win a title this year do they? It is about growing over seasons and building to that level. The key thing that Bryan has done in terms of re-signing Bosh or not... 4 of the 5 starters for the Raptors are locked in stone for the next 3 years at least. If Bryan Colangelo wants it to be.
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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"I would be happy to welcome him for the right price" ?? Why does everyone think they're the GM?

If you're happy to have him. Then who gives a shit how much it's for, to a degree of course. Obviously Bryan knows the perameters and knows what he is doing. So if you like the player and said player ends up here and the team stays under the cap, thats all that should be discussed. Unless he ends up being Kapono or Banks. But considering he can score, play several positions and play defence....there's a fat chnace that'll happen. Let the GM/MLSE (money bags) deal with the financials.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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ya, i mean mlse is super rich. they can afford it. if we have to go over the tax that shouldn't be a problem.

sure oh we gotta pay extra money and blah blash. but, if that's what it takes to getting the team to the next level. i think bryan colangelo will take that chance and i support it.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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"I would be happy to welcome him for the right price" ?? Why does everyone think they're the GM?

If you're happy to have him. Then who gives a shit how much it's for, to a degree of course. Obviously Bryan knows the perameters and knows what he is doing. So if you like the player and said player ends up here and the team stays under the cap, thats all that should be discussed. Unless he ends up being Kapono or Banks. But considering he can score, play several positions and play defence....there's a fat chnace that'll happen. Let the GM/MLSE (money bags) deal with the financials.
Oh come on, everybody has an opinion about those things. Let's say he wanted a 4 year 25 million contract? That's still ok with you, because you're not the GM and it's not your business? All I read everyday is complaints about some overpaid point guard that cuts into the cap.

I agree totally with the writer, I think the Raptors shouldn't sign Delfino, even at 4M/y - what they offered, so I've read.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Oh come on, everybody has an opinion about those things. Let's say he wanted a 4 year 25 million contract? That's still ok with you, because you're not the GM and it's not your business? All I read everyday is complaints about some overpaid point guard that cuts into the cap.

I agree totally with the writer, I think the Raptors shouldn't sign Delfino, even at 4M/y - what they offered, so I've read.
That's why i said "to a degree". But let's face it if we sign Delfino for 4-5Mil/yr and it doesn't effect their cap and you like Delfino, you don't care about the $$. If you don't want Delfino here, it'll be too much and will be a bad move to that person. The fact is though it isn't my Money and if we don't go over the Tax threshold with the signing i could care less, if it makes us better.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Sorry to break the news to folks but until MLSE makes a statement they are willing to be a tax team...Money matters. I am not trying to be the G.M of this basketball team. However in covering and writing about the team we are suppose to ignore the contracts and the amounts that people are being paid? That is insane. Sports is a business and that is the reality. It is not something I personally am happy about but that is how it is. If there was no cap in the sport I would never mention a contract number or have an opinion on it. That is not the case though. What the team spends and how they manage the cap is VERY relevant to how this team can compete in a basketball sense.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Sorry to break the news to folks but until MLSE makes a statement they are willing to be a tax team...Money matters. I am not trying to be the G.M of this basketball team. However in covering and writing about the team we are suppose to ignore the contracts and the amounts that people are being paid? That is insane. Sports is a business and that is the reality. It is not something I personally am happy about but that is how it is. If there was no cap in the sport I would never mention a contract number or have an opinion on it. That is not the case though. What the team spends and how they manage the cap is VERY relevant to how this team can compete in a basketball sense.
Who said anything about them being a tax team?
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Sorry to break the news to folks but until MLSE makes a statement they are willing to be a tax team...Money matters. I am not trying to be the G.M of this basketball team. However in covering and writing about the team we are suppose to ignore the contracts and the amounts that people are being paid? That is insane. Sports is a business and that is the reality. It is not something I personally am happy about but that is how it is. If there was no cap in the sport I would never mention a contract number or have an opinion on it. That is not the case though. What the team spends and how they manage the cap is VERY relevant to how this team can compete in a basketball sense.
Agreed. The NBA is, above all, a business. It does ruin good competition and only those willing to spend will win.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Who said anything about them being a tax team?
We will be a tax team in the future, if we sign more and more multi year contracts.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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We will be a tax team in the future, if we sign more and more multi year contracts.
They'll never be a tax team unless they want to be one.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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i can agree, overpaying for delfino is a waste of time. Eveyone always talks like he is the magical missing link. Sure it would be nice if he came back, if not, w.e he is easily replaceable. I also agree with rasho take the 1.9/year or we will just find someone else, again not a player that is going to take this team to the next level.

Honestly i just want this roster filled to JT can start getting his game plan going
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
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That's why i said "to a degree". But let's face it if we sign Delfino for 4-5Mil/yr and it doesn't effect their cap and you like Delfino, you don't care about the $$. If you don't want Delfino here, it'll be too much and will be a bad move to that person. The fact is though it isn't my Money and if we don't go over the Tax threshold with the signing i could care less, if it makes us better.
I'm neutral about Delfino but I think he is not worth that money, especially under the circumstances of the cap. I admit that I like this roster + Nesterovic and maybe another cheap back-up SF. Let's see where they can go and then add something that can make it even better- when the weaknesses are exposed - with the little financial flexibility that is left, instead of spending all you can, like the writer says, imo on a player who is not very much needed.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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i can agree, overpaying for delfino is a waste of time. Eveyone always talks like he is the magical missing link. Sure it would be nice if he came back, if not, w.e he is easily replaceable. I also agree with rasho take the 1.9/year or we will just find someone else, again not a player that is going to take this team to the next level.

Honestly i just want this roster filled to JT can start getting his game plan going
with our financial situation, he is not at all easily replaceable. the question is only whether or not he is affordable in the long run. we either have that calibre of player with him, or we don't have that calibre of player. we are not able to get someone of equal talent with the bae. i really don't think that is out there anywhere.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If there was no cap in the sport I would never mention a contract number or have an opinion on it.
Also in sports without a salary cap (or rather, countries) economics is still very important. The amount of money clubs spend to buy a player and the amount they sell him for in soccer, results in fierce debates, and that is especially true for the local teams trying to survive in the subtop = the ones that aren't filthy rich.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i can agree, overpaying for delfino is a waste of time. Eveyone always talks like he is the magical missing link. Sure it would be nice if he came back, if not, w.e he is easily replaceable.
He's not easily replaceable. The reason, if you don't sign him we have no money to go get a player to replace him. The only reason you sign him is because you have his Bird rights. Don't sign him and we need to round out our roster with the BAE & Vet min , not much $$ at all.

In other words sign delfino and still have BAE/Vet min with one more roster spot to fill (Rasho?). Or don't sign Delfino and only have the BAE/vet min. with 2 or more roster spots to fill.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Delfino's talent is not worth 5 million, but than again BC was stupid enough to give 5 mil to a shooting only Kapono
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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He's not easily replaceable. The reason, if you don't sign him we have no money to go get a player to replace him. The only reason you sign him is because you have his Bird rights. Don't sign him and we need to round out our roster with the BAE & Vet min , not much $$ at all.

In other words sign delfino and still have BAE/Vet min with one more roster spot to fill (Rasho?). Or don't sign Delfino and only have the BAE/vet min. with 2 or more roster spots to fill.
Sure but don't you look ahead to next season at all? You said it yourself, they're not going to pay tax. So, let's add Delfino at 5 M and Rasho at 2 and Bosh signs the max and the cap drops. Then you probably can't even use the MLE if you want to avoid tax.

If you want to put all your eggs in this season's basket then I agree, sign Delfino at all cost. But if you don't then don't - imho. You keep the bird rights don't you?
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:20 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Sure but don't you look ahead to next season at all? You said it yourself, they're not going to pay tax. So, let's add Delfino at 5 M and Rasho at 2 and Bosh signs the max and the cap drops. Then you probably can't even use the MLE if you want to avoid tax.

If you want to put all your eggs in this season's basket then I agree, sign Delfino at all cost. But if you don't then don't - imho. You keep the bird rights don't you?
Again, not my issue. It's MLSE/BC who has to deal with that and i'm guessing that if they give Delfino 4-5Mil/yr and Rasho the BAE which puts them just under the tax threshold, i'm sure they have a plan on what they will do next summer once the cap amount is released. In the Turkoglu presser BC said that he has plans for when the cap goes down next summer which includes signing Bosh and having the MLE/BAE to spend next summer. So i leave the $$ issues to the ones holding the cash, money baby. I just want the best team possible. It's funny that most have been complaining MLSE don't go over the tax to put the best team possible on the floor, and they have a chance to add a pretty good player and stay under the tax, they worry about money that doesn't belong to them.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Delfino's talent is not worth 5 million, but than again BC was stupid enough to give 5 mil to a shooting only Kapono
You call him stupid but at the time most were thrilled with getting Kapono. Delfino is 100x better then Kapono, he plays several position, is a good defender and adds even more toughness.

When it was announced that Jack was offered 5Mil/yr most here said ohhhh that's too much, we won't have anymore $$, our MLE will be gone?? Now that it's done everyone is thrilled.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:38 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Again, not my issue. It's MLSE/BC who has to deal with that and i'm guessing that if they give Delfino 4-5Mil/yr and Rasho the BAE which puts them just under the tax threshold, i'm sure they have a plan on what they will do next summer once the cap amount is released. In the Turkoglu presser BC said that he has plans for when the cap goes down next summer which includes signing Bosh and having the MLE/BAE to spend next summer. So i leave the $$ issues to the ones holding the cash, money baby. I just want the best team possible. It's funny that most have been complaining MLSE don't go over the tax to put the best team possible on the floor, and they have a chance to add a pretty good player and stay under the tax, they worry about money that doesn't belong to them.
I don't care about money. I haven't complained about that either. (I think it's wiser to go into tax when you expect to contend btw, but whatever)
It's clear you want Delfino - I can do without him. But if you say all this please don't start complaining about Delfino's (bad) contract keeping the team back in two or three years (or one).
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