Derozan working with a coach on his dribling/handles - Page 8
Old 06-13-2014, 05:28 PM   #141 (permalink)
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The only thing Spurs are proving is that tanking is the ideal route to winning a championship as evidenced by the tank job they did 18 years ago in 1996 to select Tim Duncan #1.
They did not do a "tank job". They had injuries. It was not a plan to tank.

If Lowry had broken his ankle last year and Demar had blown out his knee, we might have ended up with the # 1 pick. We would have benefitted from injuries also, not done a tank job.

And that # 1 pick had nothing to do with their wisdom in drafting Tony Parker or Manu Ginobli or trading for Kawhi Leonard at the draft, or picking up Green and Diaw and Mills off the scrap heap.

Tanking is too simplistic a concept and proves nothing.
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:38 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Great news, but I still believe the most important area that he has to improve is his perimeter game. I know it's a big if, but if he can become a knockdown 3 point shooter, his offensive arsenal will basically be complete, and at that point he could become the league's best shooting guard.

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Old 06-13-2014, 06:47 PM   #143 (permalink)
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They did not do a "tank job". They had injuries. It was not a plan to tank.

If Lowry had broken his ankle last year and Demar had blown out his knee, we might have ended up with the # 1 pick. We would have benefitted from injuries also, not done a tank job.

And that # 1 pick had nothing to do with their wisdom in drafting Tony Parker or Manu Ginobli or trading for Kawhi Leonard at the draft, or picking up Green and Diaw and Mills off the scrap heap.

Tanking is too simplistic a concept and proves nothing.
He was being sarcastic.
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Old 06-13-2014, 07:50 PM   #144 (permalink)
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Great news, but I still believe the most important area that he has to improve is his perimeter game. I know it's a big if, but if he can become a knockdown 3 point shooter, his offensive arsenal will basically be complete, and at that point he could become the league's best shooting guard.
defense is what he needs to improve the most
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Old 06-14-2014, 01:33 PM   #145 (permalink)
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Your argument is sarcastic. I think you should stick to stats.
My argument is perfectly valid and not meant sarcastically. What is your answer to the question?

You are applying specious reasoning in naming DD untradeable because he is the best player remaining on the team. I'm trying to demonstrate that that is not a good enough reason to give him that status. Especially since there are several players who are more valuable to the team either in terms of current performance (which you are free to argue) or future potential (also something you could argue).

You however appear to prefer to attack rather than answer simple questions or engage in real discussion. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
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Old 06-14-2014, 02:20 PM   #146 (permalink)
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My argument is perfectly valid and not meant sarcastically. What is your answer to the question?

You are applying specious reasoning in naming DD untradeable because he is the best player remaining on the team. I'm trying to demonstrate that that is not a good enough reason to give him that status. Especially since there are several players who are more valuable to the team either in terms of current performance (which you are free to argue) or future potential (also something you could argue).

You however appear to prefer to attack rather than answer simple questions or engage in real discussion. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
No DanH, I never said DD is untouchable. I will save you the time to look for it because that's so not the case. I remember before the playoffs you brought the stats that DD is inefficient and a volume shooter, but DD stepped up in the playoffs and at this point I don't see why we should trade him based on the fact that he is almost 25 and has been improving each year. Not to mention that he likes it here. As much as I like Ross he just isn't ready yet, and you saw that very well in the playoffs. Based on the fact the PP and GV are RFA and Lowry is a FA - which now we hear that Miami might try and sign him. First, I have no idea how can you announce that Lowry will stay. Seriously based on what? pzabby's source? Second, only when you know who stays and who goes you can start and move pieces, but shipping DD just for the sake of moving him makes no sense if you can't bring better pieces in return. For 10mil/ year you will be hard pressed to haul a good package without taking bad contracts in return. My guess is that DD won't be traded anytime soon, and no I am not a huge fan of him, but he deserves more credit from this fan base that's for sure.
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Old 06-14-2014, 02:31 PM   #147 (permalink)
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No DanH, I never said DD is untouchable. I will save you the time to look for it because that's so not the case. I remember before the playoffs you brought the stats that DD is inefficient and a volume shooter, but DD stepped up in the playoffs and at this point I don't see why we should trade him based on the fact that he is almost 25 and has been improving each year. Not to mention that he likes it here. As much as I like Ross he just isn't ready yet, and you saw that very well in the playoffs. Based on the fact the PP and GV are RFA and Lowry is a FA - which now we hear that Miami might try and sign him. First, I have no idea how can you announce that Lowry will stay. Seriously based on what? pzabby's source? Second, only when you know who stays and who goes you can start and move pieces, but shipping DD just for the sake of moving him makes no sense if you can't bring better pieces in return. For 10mil/ year you will be hard pressed to haul a good package without taking bad contracts in return. My guess is that DD won't be traded anytime soon, and no I am not a huge fan of him, but he deserves more credit from this fan base that's for sure.
No he didn't, he was even more inefficient volume shooter compared to regular season
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Old 06-14-2014, 02:33 PM   #148 (permalink)
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No DanH, I never said DD is untouchable. I will save you the time to look for it because that's so not the case. I remember before the playoffs you brought the stats that DD is inefficient and a volume shooter, but DD stepped up in the playoffs and at this point I don't see why we should trade him based on the fact that he is almost 25 and has been improving each year. Not to mention that he likes it here. As much as I like Ross he just isn't ready yet, and you saw that very well in the playoffs. Based on the fact the PP and GV are RFA and Lowry is a FA - which now we hear that Miami might try and sign him. First, I have no idea how can you announce that Lowry will stay. Seriously based on what? pzabby's source? Second, only when you know who stays and who goes you can start and move pieces, but shipping DD just for the sake of moving him makes no sense if you can't bring better pieces in return. For 10mil/ year you will be hard pressed to haul a good package without taking bad contracts in return. My guess is that DD won't be traded anytime soon, and no I am not a huge fan of him, but he deserves more credit from this fan base that's for sure.
You did say you wouldn't trade DD unless you get a superstar in return.

No one has said to trade him just to trade him. Suggestions to trade him are probably based on: a) he is the player who is most expendable and b) has the most value around the league. Neither of those are facts, but they are positions I hold, and I know others do as well.

My confidence in Lowry re-signing has nothing to do with pzabby. It has to do with Lowry himself and what we know of him, Ujiri's history with free agents, and the team's overall success this year. There is certainly a chance he doesn't re-sign - but that doesn't change ANYTHING in terms of whether it is worth trading DD. Actually, I would argue that if Lowry were to walk, this team is screwed as built anyway, so DD should be moved for picks ASAP.

DD stepped up in the playoffs? Regular season: 18.4 PER, .532 TS%, .141 WS/48. Playoffs: 18.2 PER, .550 TS%, .136 WS/48. Big step up there, bud. Not to mention going from a below average defender we could hide to a terrible one we couldn't.

Oh, and you can move pieces anytime. Not just when you know who stays and who goes. Lowry is the ONLY domino we don't have full control of, and I trust Ujiri to have a better handle on whether he's staying or not than I or certainly you do. In fact, waiting for the rest of your team to be set before making moves is how you lose the chance to make said moves. The market is not stagnant.
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Old 06-14-2014, 02:35 PM   #149 (permalink)
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No he didn't, he was even more inefficient volume shooter compared to regular season
Actually, no, overall he had a better TS% than in season, due to his FT's. But he did chuck a lot and did little else, judging by his PER and WS dropping in spite of the crazy FT numbers.
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Old 06-14-2014, 02:37 PM   #150 (permalink)
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I love DD, he and the team of 2010 I believe (Chris Bosh final year), visited the sick kids hospital where my sister was placed for serious issues, and Bargnani - He was my favorite player at the time- and few others lifted my family's spirit by visiting, so I'm a bit biased towards anyone who was on that team.

DD is my favorite player. I been saying since last offseason he was going to average 20 5 and 3, people thought I was crazy. He did get to my prediction and then some. But he isn't our best player. It's defiantly Lowry, then DD.

He'll get better next year, like always. And as always people will think I'm stupid for assuming that he will, and will shut up when he shows once again that he can get better. Every year always with the "He will never be able to shoot mid range, three pointers, defend, dribble" And he's improved in all of those and added good footwork and postgame and will continue to do so. He has an athletic gift and he's highly motivated to get better, very coachable and is a gym rat. Pretty damn good combo. I'd trade him for the right price, but I'd actually shed a tear if he gets traded. I really do wish he stays here for his career, because of his character (Same with Amir) and his work ethic but IK that it probably wont be the case.

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Old 06-14-2014, 02:43 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Nd he ended up shooting more in the playoffs since it seemed like he was our only wing player. Ross chocked, and I don't really wanna bother mentioning the rest of our wing players, since they were all either bad or mediocre.
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:00 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Actually, no, overall he had a better TS% than in season, due to his FT's. But he did chuck a lot and did little else, judging by his PER and WS dropping in spite of the crazy FT numbers.
exactly, but when it cames to actual shooting his % were down. His efg% was .410 compared to .452 during regular season.
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:30 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Nd he ended up shooting more in the playoffs since it seemed like he was our only wing player. Ross chocked, and I don't really wanna bother mentioning the rest of our wing players, since they were all either bad or mediocre.
Agreed. Ross chocked, Salmons was horrible and Fields was out there for his D. We didn't have much from the wings and I have no problem with DD taking more shots. We are talking here about a player who is very coachable with a great attitude who loves it here. Was Lowry Better? I would say yes, most of the time by a small margin. And yes. I do say that if we trade him I am expecting an a star in return. You don't trade 25 yo all-star without getting something great in return.
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:34 PM   #154 (permalink)
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exactly, but when it cames to actual shooting his % were down. His efg% was .410 compared to .452 during regular season.
So you are judging him based on his first playoff series while Ross was a non-factor?
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:12 PM   #155 (permalink)
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defense is what he needs to improve the most
I disagree for the simple reason that he is top 5 in minutes. You've got to cut him some slack if Casey plays him THAT much. With proper depth at the 3 raps should be able to use Ross at the 2 more along with Vasquez if they want to run two PGs. Demar could give more effort and focus to D with a small reduction in PT.
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Old 06-14-2014, 05:04 PM   #156 (permalink)
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So you are judging him based on his first playoff series while Ross was a non-factor?
I'm not judging anyone, I'm simply posting stats. I'm sorry that they don't support your super awesome Demar during the playoffs theory.
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Old 06-14-2014, 05:13 PM   #157 (permalink)
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I disagree for the simple reason that he is top 5 in minutes. You've got to cut him some slack if Casey plays him THAT much. With proper depth at the 3 raps should be able to use Ross at the 2 more along with Vasquez if they want to run two PGs. Demar could give more effort and focus to D with a small reduction in PT.
uhmm no.. I don't have to do shit. He sucks on defense and playing time must be one of the lamest excuses. You don't see other two way elite players not playing defense because of the playing time. You can't handle that much minutes sit down, basketball is played on both ends of the floor.
So yea imo if he really wants to elevate his game to the next level defense should be by far his biggest concern.
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:20 PM   #158 (permalink)
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I'm not judging anyone, I'm simply posting stats. I'm sorry that they don't support your super awesome Demar during the playoffs theory.
LOL I am not even a huge fan of DD but I do think you and the rest really enjoy criticize him often just to make a false statement - ironically almost everyone who wanted us to tank. I keep asking here, what's your alternative if you were to trade Demar? Give me 3 reasonable trade offers that will make us better and won't handicap our cap.

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Old 06-14-2014, 07:03 PM   #159 (permalink)
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LOL I am not even a huge fan of DD but I do think you and the rest really enjoy criticize him often just to make a false statement - ironically almost everyone who wanted us to tank. I keep asking here, what's your alternative if you were to trade Demar? Give me 3 reasonable trade offers that will make us better and won't handicap our cap.
what false statement are you talking about?
I'm not a GM and I have no idea what is realistic market value for Derozan, but if we could get a return similar to Jrue Holiday trade, it would be awesome. It would also free up capspace. Hell with all that extra money we could go after Parsons.
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:48 PM   #160 (permalink)
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what false statement are you talking about?
I'm not a GM and I have no idea what is realistic market value for Derozan, but if we could get a return similar to Jrue Holiday trade, it would be awesome. It would also free up capspace. Hell with all that extra money we could go after Parsons.
Well when we criticize Demar, we're all making false statements.

I think I need some time to wrap my head around that one.

We're bad, criticizing a player with such a complete game. How could we?
Demar is our one and only.

I knew being a tanker was going to get me in trouble.
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