Derozan working with a coach on his dribling/handles - Page 7
Old 06-13-2014, 01:59 AM   #121 (permalink)
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Ok, you were doing fine until that. lol
I'm serious - free is a relative term, look at what they get for 10M, diaw, green, and belinelli combined make less than demar. SAS plays in a small market and can't spend insane amounts like other teams, if they get demar, they'd have to sacrifice their depth. And what would demar bring to them that they don't have?
They'd much rather take ross who's a better fit than demar.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:05 AM   #122 (permalink)
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I think Kwahi does his role better, than DD does his role. But if Kwahi was given the ball and told to score he wouldn't be as good. He's doing good because of the open shots created through plays made by his coach and teammates. Last time we say Demar with an offence oriented coach was his 2nd year and he was averaging 17 points (18 per 36) on 47% fg. Thats with a lesser mid range , no three point shot, and no post game, etc.
Kwahi wouldn't be as efficient as Demar and vice versa if you swap them.
That's just iimho ... and any team would want Demar, why are we going out of our way to make him look as if he's the worst NBA player ever? Cmon now. He's an all-star. Top 10 sg atleast.
I think lots of teams still don't want demar, because he's a liability defensively and is very inefficient offensively. Teams that lack elite shot creators would want somebody like him, because he has the ability to create at a better than average clip. Good to great teams not so much - if you don't need his shot creation, what else are you getting?

His skills are very poorly fitted for a supporting player and he's not good enough (at this point in time) to be a leader on a great team.

As far as kawhi, demar is better at generating offense, but kawhi is better at everything else, it's not even close.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:36 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Kind of like the same difficulty to decide to trade Demar. But Pop did, because he was getting something better. Trading Demar wouldn't be because he's lousy- it would be for an upgrade to the team.

Love how people throw out cliche's to make a point.
Upgrade for the team? Usually you don't start by trading your best player you've been developing for 5 years. I wouldn't trade DeMar unless we get a superstar in return. I have a feeling if we trade him all we'd get is a borderline all-star
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:10 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Upgrade for the team? Usually you don't start by trading your best player you've been developing for 5 years. I wouldn't trade DeMar unless we get a superstar in return. I have a feeling if we trade him all we'd get is a borderline all-star
I have two problems with this statement.

Problem 1: DeMar is not our best player. Lowry is definitely better. I would argue Amir is better. And I would argue JV has a higher ceiling.

Problem 2: Usually doesn't mean anything. Most approaches aren't usual until they happen. Usually you don't trade your all-star big for a prospect no one has heard of. Worked out for MEM. Usually you don't find all-stars after the 20th pick in the draft. Tell that to SAS. Usually three max players don't sign with the same team in the same off-season. Worked well for MIA. You make the move that makes the most sense, regardless of "usually." And if the return for DeMar is considered good, you make the move.

I expect DD would only be moved either in a package for a superstar or for prospects/picks. Either I would be fine with.
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:05 PM   #125 (permalink)
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I have two problems with this statement.

Problem 1: DeMar is not our best player. Lowry is definitely better. I would argue Amir is better. And I would argue JV has a higher ceiling.

Problem 2: Usually doesn't mean anything. Most approaches aren't usual until they happen. Usually you don't trade your all-star big for a prospect no one has heard of. Worked out for MEM. Usually you don't find all-stars after the 20th pick in the draft. Tell that to SAS. Usually three max players don't sign with the same team in the same off-season. Worked well for MIA. You make the move that makes the most sense, regardless of "usually." And if the return for DeMar is considered good, you make the move.

I expect DD would only be moved either in a package for a superstar or for prospects/picks. Either I would be fine with.
DanH I respect you and all but Lowry is not 'our' player. He is a free agent and no one can predict what will happen. Most people feel he will stay but it's premature to tell. I am sure his agent will test the water in terms of $$$ and also at the end Lowry's decision will be based on a situation. It all depends what we offer in terms of situation and $$$ vs other teams that make a pitch.
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:07 PM   #126 (permalink)
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DanH I respect you and all but Lowry is not 'our' player. He is a free agent and no one can predict what will happen. Most people feel he will stay but it's premature to tell. I am sure his agent will test the water in terms of $$$ and also at the end Lowry's decision will based on a situation. It all depends what we offer in terms of situation and $$$ vs other teams that make a pitch.
OK, so he was our best player this year. You agree or disagree with that?

Based on that reasoning, if all our players except Steve Novak were free agents, you would not want to trade Steve Novak because he IS our best player?
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:35 PM   #127 (permalink)
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OK, so he was our best player this year. You agree or disagree with that?

Based on that reasoning, if all our players except Steve Novak were free agents, you would not want to trade Steve Novak because he IS our best player?
No, that's not what I said. Lowry was our best player last season. Also, let's not forget that this is a contract year for him. PP, GV for example are RFA. If we really want to keep them, then we match any offer they fetch. With Lowry you know he will get multiple offers. If we were better let's say had more success in recent years so yeah it won't be a question, because there some stability but we are not. We had a good season with a game 7 loss. It's not like we are all that attractive at this point. It takes time to build a contender and we don't know if Lowry sees himself as part of the plan long term. Time will tell.
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:51 PM   #128 (permalink)
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No, that's not what I said. Lowry was our best player last season. Also, let's not forget that this is a contract year for him. PP, GV for example are RFA. If we really want to keep them, then we match any offer they fetch. With Lowry you know he will get multiple offers. If we were better let's say had more success in recent years so yeah it won't be a question, because there some stability but we are not. We had a good season with a game 7 loss. It's not like we are all that attractive at this point. It takes time to build a contender and we don't know if Lowry sees himself as part of the plan long term. Time will tell.
He'll re-sign. And it's entirely irrelevant to your original point.

Please address my second point. If everyone else was a free agent, would you be hesitant to trade Steve Novak just because he is our best player under contract?
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:59 PM   #129 (permalink)
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He'll re-sign. And it's entirely irrelevant to your original point.

Please address my second point. If everyone else was a free agent, would you be hesitant to trade Steve Novak just because he is our best player under contract?
Your argument is sarcastic. I think you should stick to stats.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:28 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Your argument is sarcastic. I think you should stick to stats.
I dunno about that. Personally, I prefer sarcastic people, they are, usually, quite smart, so one can enjoy arguing with them.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:29 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Your argument is sarcastic. I think you should stick to stats.
Your reply is charming.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:06 PM   #132 (permalink)
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Your reply is charming.
Stupid questions will lead to stupid answers. My argument was a legit one. Unless DanH is actually Lowry's agent I don't see this argument as valid. Once he signs then let's see moving forward what happens. You don't build a roster and a team based on IFs.

Last edited by Tommy C; 06-13-2014 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 06-13-2014, 04:32 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Stupid questions will lead to stupid answers. My argument was a legit one. Unless DanH is actually Lowry's agent I don't see this argument as valid. Once he signs then let's see moving forward what happens. You don't build a roster and a team based on IFs.
Glad you started your original question with:

"DanH I respect you and all"

Glad you admitted that your answer was a stupid answer

Sorry your reply was condescending and derisive to Dan: "I think you should stick to stats"

Sorry you missed the use of sarcasm in my reply.

Glad that Dan makes his thoughtful and valued contributions to this forum.
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Old 06-13-2014, 04:44 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Glad you started your original question with:

"DanH I respect you and all"

Glad you admitted that your answer was a stupid answer

Sorry your reply was condescending and derisive to Dan: "I think you should stick to stats"

Sorry you missed the use of sarcasm in my reply.

Glad that Dan makes his thoughtful and valued contributions to this forum.
Always a pleasure. Dissing, arguing and disrespecting is what you do best. whatever floats your boat.

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He'll re-sign. And it's entirely irrelevant to your original point.

Please address my second point. If everyone else was a free agent, would you be hesitant to trade Steve Novak just because he is our best player under contract?
Source please? Also I don't see the point of even asking this and bringing Novak into the discussion.
You know better than that.

Last edited by Tommy C; 06-13-2014 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:08 PM   #135 (permalink)
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Lowry definitely was good but not nearly good enough to say that he was definitely better than Derozan.

One thing I like about the two of them is that Derozan's even keel complement's Lowry emotion very well. Lowry can take himself out of games with his emotion, it's his strength and his weakness. Derozan is becoming more and more cerebral in his approach to games. I think Demar's growth potential is interesting. He was definitely as good as Lowry last year, but emotion and passion was definitely more plentiful with Lowry.

Last edited by bjjs; 06-13-2014 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:11 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Always a pleasure. Dissing, arguing and disrespecting is what you do best. whatever floats your boat.

That's more your boat.

Source please? Also I don't see the point of even asking this and bringing Novak into the discussion.
You know better than that.
No quit in you.
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:21 PM   #137 (permalink)
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You're certainly welcome to read any of my post's to see if I'm consistent.

The "we's" are posters like Doc Holliday, Dan H, moremilk and others. We know that Demar is a good player. We also know he has flaws. We also know that his tenure as a Raptor should not be a sacred cow.

The not taking him for free was a throwaway comment from moremilk at the end of his post, probably in frustration at some of the over-the-top assessments of Demar, like maybe next years MVP, and the number of post's about improving every year through hard work. He has improved every year. But after 5 years, if he's so great, he should have improved more than he has and at a faster pace. He's a very good player, not a great player.
Improved more at a faster pace? He's 24 and an all-star? There are 30 NBA all stars' in basketball? What should he be by now if not an all-star? What are the expectations?
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:24 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Lowry definitely was good but not nearly good enough to say that he was definitely better than Derozan.

One thing I like about the two of them is that Derozan's even keel complement's Lowry emotion very well. Lowry can take himself out of games with his emotion, it's his strength and his weakness. Derozan is becoming more and more cerbral in his approach to games. I think Demar's growth potential is interesting. He was definitely as good as Lowry last year, but emotion and passion was definitely more plentiful with Lowry.
I do think that Lowry was our leader and maybe looked better than DD at times. Especially while Gay was still here. I think they compliment each other as well and were both very good.
What I wonder though is why the majority of the people here want DD gone. It's easy to talk about should and would but if we trade DD at this point, what exactly are we going to fetch. I want to hear what they have to say about that.

Last edited by Tommy C; 06-13-2014 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:37 PM   #139 (permalink)
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I think there is a good all around fit here. Team basketball can succeed. The Spurs are proving that in spades. We don't really need to try to get a sexy name in the mix. It should, and i suspect will be about getting everyone buying in and continuing to develop.
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:13 PM   #140 (permalink)
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The only thing Spurs are proving is that tanking is the ideal route to winning a championship as evidenced by the tank job they did 18 years ago in 1996 to select Tim Duncan #1.
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