Derozan working with a coach on his dribling/handles - Page 6
Old 06-12-2014, 04:37 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Offense has never been so much the issue except his constant iso plays and limited ability to truly create for others. As for defense, DD is just not aware enough on that end - not even the same planet as Kawaii. Ross has shown some potential at least. As for Kawaii, he doesn't need to nor is expected to create for others, that's what Parker, Manu and Duncan on the floor do. It will be interesting to see what happens when those 3 start retiring and how KL will be played - the more aggressive he becomes in the play-offs, the better the Spurs play.

I would still trade DD for Kawii and have him at the 2 - he's fast and long enough to play there. I would have Ross off the bench and then I would focus on a "Deng" type wing.

Could you imagine what a starting 5 that would be?
Lowry, Kawaii, Deng, Patterson, JV
Oh baby that would be one tough defensive and offensively dynamic starting 5.
That actually wouldn't be a good offensive unit. Other than Lowry, there isn't a guy on there that can create his shot. Maybe JV eventually, but not right now. Deng also doesn't have enough range to extend defences and keep them honest (like what Green and Ginobli do for the Spurs). It's definitely a better defensive unit.

I like Kawhi Leonard an awful lot, but he's not worth DD straight up. DD does a lot more offensively than Leonard. The two, though, would be a great tandem, better than DD and Ross.

Anyway, it's pipe dream to think such a deal would happen. Neither team does it.
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:42 PM   #102 (permalink)
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A lot of players don't fit but players like Hill and Neal are bad examples.
Neal wanted more money and Hill was traded to the Pacers during the 2011 NBA draft. A trade which sent 15th overall pick Leonard to the Spurs.
I remember pop said it was very difficult decision to give up Hill since he was a great fit. Love it how people throw names just to make a point.
Kind of like the same difficulty to decide to trade Demar. But Pop did, because he was getting something better. Trading Demar wouldn't be because he's lousy- it would be for an upgrade to the team.

Love how people throw out cliche's to make a point.
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:45 PM   #103 (permalink)
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That actually wouldn't be a good offensive unit. Other than Lowry, there isn't a guy on there that can create his shot. Maybe JV eventually, but not right now. Deng also doesn't have enough range to extend defences and keep them honest (like what Green and Ginobli do for the Spurs). It's definitely a better defensive unit.

I like Kawhi Leonard an awful lot, but he's not worth DD straight up. DD does a lot more offensively than Leonard. The two, though, would be a great tandem, better than DD and Ross.

Anyway, it's pipe dream to think such a deal would happen. Neither team does it.
You right. The Spurs would want more than Demar.
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Old 06-12-2014, 05:00 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Kind of like the same difficulty to decide to trade Demar. But Pop did, because he was getting something better. Trading Demar wouldn't be because he's lousy- it would be for an upgrade to the team.

Love how people throw out cliche's to make a point.
Not the same scenario at all. Hill was a back up to Parker and although he started plenty of games it was due to the fact Parker being injured.
He was a role player there, nothing more while DD is at this point, if you like it or not, is the closest thing we have to a franchise player.
No sure if you just enjoy arguing and dissing everyone's opinion or truly think MU is a magician who can bring here a bunch of quality FAs.
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Old 06-12-2014, 05:21 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Not the same scenario at all. Hill was a back up to Parker and although he started plenty of games it was due to the fact Parker being injured.
He was a role player there, nothing more while DD is at this point, if you like it or not, is the closest thing we have to a franchise player.
No sure if you just enjoy arguing and dissing everyone's opinion or truly think MU is a magician who can bring here a bunch of quality FAs.
The closest thing we have to a franchise player at this point is Lowry. But not in your mind. You've pegged Lowry as 50/50 to leave in FA because of money, bu clutch on to Demar like a life jacket.

I think Masai is very good, but you're the one that keeps bringing up FA's. I've NEVER raised that subject, in fact I think Masai doesn't look first for FA's to upgrade his team, more trades and the draft. The fixation on FA's is all your's.

Masai's concern in FA is to hold on to ours.
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Old 06-12-2014, 05:23 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Not the same scenario at all. Hill was a back up to Parker and although he started plenty of games it was due to the fact Parker being injured.
He was a role player there, nothing more while DD is at this point, if you like it or not, is the closest thing we have to a franchise player.
No sure if you just enjoy arguing and dissing everyone's opinion or truly think MU is a magician who can bring here a bunch of quality FAs.
That player is Lowry if he stays. DD is a one dimensional player and is in your opinion the closet thing the Raptors will get to a franchise player? C'mon. That's the point why pro re builders wanted in on this draft. You've summed up the pro rebuilders stance right there.

You're argument is that whether you like it or not your stuck with it?

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Old 06-12-2014, 05:34 PM   #107 (permalink)
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The closest thing we have to a franchise player at this point is Lowry. But not in your mind. You've pegged Lowry as 50/50 to leave in FA because of money, bu clutch on to Demar like a life jacket.

I think Masai is very good, but you're the one that keeps bringing up FA's. I've NEVER raised that subject, in fact I think Masai doesn't look first for FA's to upgrade his team, more trades and the draft. The fixation on FA's is all your's.

Masai's concern in FA is to hold on to ours.

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That player is Lowry if he stays. DD is a one dimensional player and is in your opinion the closet thing the Raptors will get to a franchise player? C'mon. That's the point why pro re builders wanted in on this draft. You've summed up the pro rebuilders stance right there.

You're argument is that whether you like it or not your stuck with it?
As well as he played we all know he is a free agent. I won't say he is our franchise player after having 1 good season which also happen to be a contract year. He was a great leader on and off the court though.
Let's see if we even bring him back. I hope we do, but if we don't, I won't be surprised.

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Old 06-12-2014, 05:42 PM   #108 (permalink)
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You right. The Spurs would want more than Demar.
I doubt it. I also, like I said before, don't think they would make such a deal at this time unless both Duncan and Ginobli retire. If the deal was available, they might jump at it because the Spurs still have Green to play next to DD. I highly doubt Masai deals DD straight up for Kawhi.

They're both good players, but they're extremely different. I don't see Leonard being able to be the #1 or #2 option on a team while we've seen DD be exactly that. It's not easy to find such players.

(BTW, I'm not saying DD is a franchise player, but he's shown the ability to be a lead offensive option on a playoff team.)
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Old 06-12-2014, 05:51 PM   #109 (permalink)
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As well as he played we all know he is a free agent. I won't say he is our franchise player after having 1 good season which also happen to be a contract year. He was a great leader on and off the court though.
Let's see if we even bring him back. I hope we do, but if we don't, I won't be surprised.
What a shock!

Why make it sound like we have decide to " even bring" him back or not.
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Old 06-12-2014, 05:53 PM   #110 (permalink)
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As well as he played we all know he is a free agent. I won't say he is our franchise player after having 1 good season which also happen to be a contract year. He was a great leader on and off the court though.
Let's see if we even bring him back. I hope we do, but if we don't, I won't be surprised.
I won't say it either but he would be closer to it than DD as he plays both ends of the floor very well. I'm not 100% sure he would stay either, I don't think anyone can make that claim except KL himself. For me though, I would be mildly surprised if he left and hugely disappointed since MU is offering the keys to the team. Giving a first rounder then having KL leave for nothing would be a big blow to the team and it's immediate future imo.
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Old 06-12-2014, 06:00 PM   #111 (permalink)
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I won't say it either but he would be closer to it than DD as he plays both ends of the floor very well. I'm not 100% sure he would stay either, I don't think anyone can make that claim except KL himself. For me though, I would be mildly surprised if he left and hugely disappointed since MU is offering the keys to the team. Giving a first rounder then having KL leave for nothing would be a big blow to the team and it's immediate future imo.
I completely agree and this is why I say chances are 50/50. People here are so positive he stays, based on what exactly? It's a business, and he is not going to give us a friendly discount after his performance this year and based on the fact that he never had a big NBA contract so far. We can predict all day which teams might be making a pitch but we need to keep in mind that he may or may not be back.
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Old 06-12-2014, 06:00 PM   #112 (permalink)
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I doubt it. I also, like I said before, don't think they would make such a deal at this time unless both Duncan and Ginobli retire. If the deal was available, they might jump at it because the Spurs still have Green to play next to DD. I highly doubt Masai deals DD straight up for Kawhi.

They're both good players, but they're extremely different. I don't see Leonard being able to be the #1 or #2 option on a team while we've seen DD be exactly that. It's not easy to find such players.

(BTW, I'm not saying DD is a franchise player, but he's shown the ability to be a lead offensive option on a playoff team.)
If Ginobli and Duncan retire, Leonard becomes even more untouchable. Unless you think that Pops was lying when he called Leonard "the future face of the franchise because our other players are older than dirt".

If the deal was on the table, they couldn't jump at it because they'd be ROFLTAO.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:39 PM   #113 (permalink)
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no patience to go through the thread, but do some people really think demar is worth more than kawhi? Are you guys watching the finals? What exactly can demar do better than kawhi (in the playoffs), outside taking more shots? He couldn't defend joe johnson to save his life, can you imagine him on wade or lebron?

When he's not getting to the line (and against miami he is NOT getting to the line), demar is as mediocre as it comes. And that's not even considering fit - in that SAS lineup he'd have no place, can't shoot the 3, would be the 5th or 6th best ball handler and he can't defend - why exactly would SAS even consider him? I'm not sure they'd even take him for free to be honest.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:42 PM   #114 (permalink)
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I'm not sure they'd even take him for free to be honest.
Ok, you were doing fine until that. lol
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:05 PM   #115 (permalink)
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What about Ross, 20th pick, Nando, 2016 NYK 1st for Mills and Leonard

Sign Randolph


Lowry
DeRozan
Leonard
Randolph
Valanciunas

Thats dope
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:30 PM   #116 (permalink)
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no patience to go through the thread, but do some people really think demar is worth more than kawhi? Are you guys watching the finals? What exactly can demar do better than kawhi (in the playoffs), outside taking more shots? He couldn't defend joe johnson to save his life, can you imagine him on wade or lebron?

When he's not getting to the line (and against miami he is NOT getting to the line), demar is as mediocre as it comes. And that's not even considering fit - in that SAS lineup he'd have no place, can't shoot the 3, would be the 5th or 6th best ball handler and he can't defend - why exactly would SAS even consider him? I'm not sure they'd even take him for free to be honest.
I think Kwahi does his role better, than DD does his role. But if Kwahi was given the ball and told to score he wouldn't be as good. He's doing good because of the open shots created through plays made by his coach and teammates. Last time we say Demar with an offence oriented coach was his 2nd year and he was averaging 17 points (18 per 36) on 47% fg. Thats with a lesser mid range , no three point shot, and no post game, etc.
Kwahi wouldn't be as efficient as Demar and vice versa if you swap them.
That's just iimho ... and any team would want Demar, why are we going out of our way to make him look as if he's the worst NBA player ever? Cmon now. He's an all-star. Top 10 sg atleast.

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Old 06-13-2014, 12:05 AM   #117 (permalink)
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I think Kwahi does his role better, than DD does his role. But if Kwahi was given the ball and told to score he wouldn't be as good. He's doing good because of the open shots created through plays made by his coach and teammates. Last time we say Demar with an offence oriented coach was his 2nd year and he was averaging 17 points (18 per 36) on 47% fg. Thats with a lesser mid range , no three point shot, and no post game, etc.
Kwahi wouldn't be as efficient as Demar and vice versa if you swap them.
That's just iimho ... and any team would want Demar, why are we going out of our way to make him look as if he's the worst NBA player ever? Cmon now. He's an all-star. Top 10 sg atleast.
Baloney. No one is saying he's the worst NBA player, not even saying he's a bad player. We just aren't wearing rose coloured glasses and blindly worshipping because he was selected for an all-star game. So was Joe Johnson, who stole Demar's homework in the playoffs. People thought Joe Johnson shouldn't have made the all-star team.

We see holes in his game and are pointing them out. We could do the same with any Raptor.

We're just realist's. If the right deal comes along, player's are tradeable. On forum's we have the freedom to be open with our opinions of players, something that GM's and coaches can't do lest some media pick up on it. At one point, Casay was even a fan of Bargnani. Who think's that he legitmately was?

Kawhi does his job better, because his game is better than DD's. Did the SAS system help? Absolutely. But it's not the system only-he's got game.

As I'm typing this, Leonard is up to 16 points and 12 boards tonight, and we're still in the 3rd quarter! If he keep's playing like this he'll be in consideration for finals MVP.

Demar is an all-star. Kawhi isn't. Demar has more holes in his game than Kawhi. Demar is a very good NBA player. Kawhi just happens to be better than Demar.
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:07 AM   #118 (permalink)
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Id do demar for popovich
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:40 AM   #119 (permalink)
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Baloney. No one is saying he's the worst NBA player, not even saying he's a bad player. We just aren't wearing rose coloured glasses and blindly worshipping because he was selected for an all-star game. So was Joe Johnson, who stole Demar's homework in the playoffs. People thought Joe Johnson shouldn't have made the all-star team.

We see holes in his game and are pointing them out. We could do the same with any Raptor.

We're just realist's. If the right deal comes along, player's are tradeable. On forum's we have the freedom to be open with our opinions of players, something that GM's and coaches can't do lest some media pick up on it. At one point, Casay was even a fan of Bargnani. Who think's that he legitmately was?

Kawhi does his job better, because his game is better than DD's. Did the SAS system help? Absolutely. But it's not the system only-he's got game.

As I'm typing this, Leonard is up to 16 points and 12 boards tonight, and we're still in the 3rd quarter! If he keep's playing like this he'll be in consideration for finals MVP.

Demar is an all-star. Kawhi isn't. Demar has more holes in his game than Kawhi. Demar is a very good NBA player. Kawhi just happens to be better than Demar.
I dunno who these "we" are, I haven't read any of the posts tbh so idk what you've said. So I can't comment on you being a 'realist'. But yea he has holes, but the ammount of complaining about him 'realist' turns into 'pessimism', saying the team wont take him for free is absurd. That's saying he's a horrible player. And Yea, I change my mind. Kawhi is better.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:20 AM   #120 (permalink)
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I dunno who these "we" are, I haven't read any of the posts tbh so idk what you've said. So I can't comment on you being a 'realist'. But yea he has holes, but the ammount of complaining about him 'realist' turns into 'pessimism', saying the team wont take him for free is absurd. That's saying he's a horrible player. And Yea, I change my mind. Kawhi is better.
You're certainly welcome to read any of my post's to see if I'm consistent.

The "we's" are posters like Doc Holliday, Dan H, moremilk and others. We know that Demar is a good player. We also know he has flaws. We also know that his tenure as a Raptor should not be a sacred cow.

The not taking him for free was a throwaway comment from moremilk at the end of his post, probably in frustration at some of the over-the-top assessments of Demar, like maybe next years MVP, and the number of post's about improving every year through hard work. He has improved every year. But after 5 years, if he's so great, he should have improved more than he has and at a faster pace. He's a very good player, not a great player.
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