Derozan working with a coach on his dribling/handles - Page 5
Old 06-12-2014, 10:26 AM   #81 (permalink)
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What's your point? He's a one way player that couldn't defend or elevate his team in the playoffs where it matters. There's the point.

As for conspiracy stuff...it doesn't matter to me. All I see is what he does on the court. He's a complimentary piece on a contending team. Why is that hard to accept? If he can accept his role based on his skillset there is no problem. I don't recall ever stating his offence is the reason he should go.

For the record, Lance is/was far more deserving of that selection that DD was, he's a far better all around player and he's a year younger - he just pisses too many coaches off - the ones that made the selection.
What coach has Stephenson pissed off? Stephenson pissed off his own coach and teammates as well. Why is he more deserving.

And how is Derozan not a two-way player? He isn't lock down but he consistently came up with big steals at the end of games. And again, why can't he be a complimentary $10mm/ per player on the Raptors? How was he not accepting of his role?? Just because Amir/JV/and 2PAt and TRoss couldn't step up against BKN, doesn't mean Demar was playing hero ball.

Your arguments are all conjecture.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:37 AM   #82 (permalink)
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What coach has Stephenson pissed off? Stephenson pissed off his own coach and teammates as well. Why is he more deserving.

And how is Derozan not a two-way player? He isn't lock down but he consistently came up with big steals at the end of games. And again, why can't he be a complimentary $10mm/ per player on the Raptors? How was he not accepting of his role?? Just because Amir/JV/and 2PAt and TRoss couldn't step up against BKN, doesn't mean Demar was playing hero ball.

Your arguments are all conjecture.
He's more deserving because he's shown he can elevate his team. How DD is not a 2-way player?? OH boy - there is ample to show that he's not.

A complimentary piece on the Raps sure. A complimentary piece like a Kawaii on a contending team? Don't see it.

If you had a chance to swap complimentary pieces between DD and Kawaii..... would you do it? and more importantly, why?

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Old 06-12-2014, 11:24 AM   #83 (permalink)
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A complimentary piece on the Raps sure. A complimentary piece like a Kawaii on a contending team? Don't see it.

If you had a chance to swap complimentary pieces between DD and Kawaii..... would you do it? and more importantly, why?
You are using Kawaii as an example? He is a very unique impact player but more importantly comes from the best system in the NBA, coached by one of the best and surrounded by vets with multiple rings. What's your point?
DD atm is somewhere between Stephenson, Butler and maybe Harden.
The question should be how many would be willing to trade DD for Stephenson, Jimmy Butler or Harden. Put Kawaii with our roster and he it's going to be as affective as he is with the Spurs.
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:30 AM   #84 (permalink)
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You are using Kawaii as an example? He is a very unique impact player but more importantly comes from the best system in the NBA, coached by one of the best and surrounded by vets with multiple rings. What's your point?
DD atm is somewhere between Stephenson, Butler and maybe Harden.
The question should be how many would be willing to trade DD for Stephenson, Jimmy Butler or Harden. Put Kawaii with our roster and he it's going to be as affective as he is with the Spurs.
Nope, bjjs brought him up

As for that it's just.... C'mon

Kawaii is a product of the Spurs....put him on the Raps and he wouldn't be the same player. Truth be told, put DD on the Spurs and he would have developed much differently.
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:51 AM   #85 (permalink)
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What's your point? He's a one way player that couldn't defend or elevate his team in the playoffs where it matters. There's the point.

As for conspiracy stuff...it doesn't matter to me. All I see is what he does on the court. He's a complimentary piece on a contending team. Why is that hard to accept? If he can accept his role based on his skillset there is no problem. I don't recall ever stating his offence is the reason he should go.

For the record, Lance is/was far more deserving of that selection that DD was, he's a far better all around player and he's a year younger - he just pisses too many coaches off - the ones that made the selection.
are you serious.. after his first playoffs you say that lol

Do you remember the kind of talent Vince was, and how he under performed in his first playoffs. Even his second year in playoffs he started off very slow until he picked it up after a few games.

After DD's game one struggles he stepped up for the team the rest of the series. Did you forget game two when the game was tied he hit the two big jumpers over Pierce and Joe Johnson.

I guess if your not KD or LBJ you need to go. Lets trade DD for Kahwi, he played good Defense on Lebron and dropped 29. YEEEEAH

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Old 06-12-2014, 12:14 PM   #86 (permalink)
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are you serious.. after his first playoffs you say that lol

Do you remember the kind of talent Vince was, and how he under performed in his first playoffs. Even his second year in playoffs he started off very slow until he picked it up after a few games.

After DD's game one struggles he stepped up for the team the rest of the series. Did you forget game two when the game was tied he hit the two big jumpers over Pierce and Joe Johnson.

I guess if your not KD or LBJ you need to go. Lets trade DD for Kahwi, he played good Defense on Lebron and dropped 29. YEEEEAH
No one is talking about those 2, you're the only one that keeps bringing it up.

DD shooting over 2 old and aged players on a couple of plays is just dandy but he couldn't defend them in the slightest and those 2 old and aged players are the 2 primary reasons the Raps lost - which is what I'm speaking about and is indicative of the issue. In fact he did so well that many wanted Fields to play his position instead cause at least he can defend. He did so well that after the playoffs our immediate and pressing need was now a bigger and stronger defensive wing - and why is that? Don't you think BC recognized that as well when he brought in Gay? Again, offence is not the issue here

I would trade DD for Kawaii in a NY second - no hesitation or second thought on that.

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Old 06-12-2014, 12:45 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Neither DD nor Ross could defend Johnson. The issue is that the team still needs to add pieces. DD and Ross complement each other pretty well offensively, but defensively they're not great fits since they both lack the size and strength to defend the LBJs and Joe Johnsons of the world.

On Leonard, he's a very good role player, but he's not a lead horse. His handles are quite poor, too, and he isn't able to consistently create his own shot. Rather, he's an excellent spot up shooter and occasionally can take it to the rim. He's the consummate role player - excellent defensively, picks his spots, shoots well when open, doesn't try to do too much, and plays within himself. He's a valuable player, but I wouldn't trade DD for him because then the team loses one of its two players that can create a shot for himself and others (and maybe both players if Lowry departs via FA). I would trade Ross for Leonard in a heartbeat, but of course that isn't happening.

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Old 06-12-2014, 01:02 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Neither DD nor Ross could defend Johnson. The issue is that the team still needs to add pieces. DD and Ross complement each other pretty well offensively, but defensively they're not great fits since they both lack the size and strength to defend the LBJs and Joe Johnsons of the world.

On Leonard, he's a very good role player, but he's not a lead horse. His handles are quite poor, too, and he isn't able to consistently create his own shot. Rather, he's an excellent spot up shooter and occasionally can take it to the rim. He's the consummate role player - excellent defensively, picks his spots, shoots well when open, doesn't try to do too much, and plays within himself. He's a valuable player, but I wouldn't trade DD for him because then the team loses one of its two players that can create a shot for himself and others (and maybe both players if Lowry departs via FA). I would trade Ross for Leonard in a heartbeat, but of course that isn't happening.
Offense has never been so much the issue except his constant iso plays and limited ability to truly create for others. As for defense, DD is just not aware enough on that end - not even the same planet as Kawaii. Ross has shown some potential at least. As for Kawaii, he doesn't need to nor is expected to create for others, that's what Parker, Manu and Duncan on the floor do. It will be interesting to see what happens when those 3 start retiring and how KL will be played - the more aggressive he becomes in the play-offs, the better the Spurs play.

I would still trade DD for Kawii and have him at the 2 - he's fast and long enough to play there. I would have Ross off the bench and then I would focus on a "Deng" type wing.

Could you imagine what a starting 5 that would be?
Lowry, Kawaii, Deng, Patterson, JV
Oh baby that would be one tough defensive and offensively dynamic starting 5.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:19 PM   #89 (permalink)
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No one is talking about those 2, you're the only one that keeps bringing it up.

DD shooting over 2 old and aged players on a couple of plays is just dandy but he couldn't defend them in the slightest and those 2 old and aged players are the 2 primary reasons the Raps lost - which is what I'm speaking about and is indicative of the issue. In fact he did so well that many wanted Fields to play his position instead cause at least he can defend. He did so well that after the playoffs our immediate and pressing need was now a bigger and stronger defensive wing - and why is that? Don't you think BC recognized that as well when he brought in Gay? Again, offence is not the issue here

I would trade DD for Kawaii in a NY second - no hesitation or second thought on that.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!

He's 2 years younger than Demar and has 2 times the bbiq. San Antonio would tell you to FO.

And BTW Leonard does have "it"
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:36 PM   #90 (permalink)
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ABSOLUTELY!!!!

He's 2 years younger than Demar and has 2 times the bbiq. San Antonio would tell you to FO.

And BTW Leonard does have "it"
I would too.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:14 PM   #91 (permalink)
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you guys sure get excited after big performances.. if he struggles the rest of the way I wonder if you would feel the same way about his game

Lemmie guess, Paul George is a super star worth 90 mill to right

not to discredit him at all, he is good.. and also playing with future Hall of Famers and for one of the best coaches, so that speeded up is development tremendously, he is there new school Bruce Bowen

but in a weaker system he probably wouldn't be utilized as much.
Winning sure makes you look good

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Old 06-12-2014, 02:26 PM   #92 (permalink)
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you guys sure get excited after big performances.. if he struggles the rest of the way I wonder if you would feel the same way about his game

Lemmie guess, Paul George is a super star worth 90 mill to right

Dude is nice, but he is in the rite system, he is there new school Bruce Bowen
Absolutely. My opinion of Leonard has nothing to do with Tuesday's game.

That's your guess of Paul George's worth. Stop thinking of players worth in terms of the size of their contract. Duncan, Parker, Ginobli aren't on max contracts, so should our opinions of them adjust?
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:26 PM   #93 (permalink)
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you guys sure get excited after big performances.. if he struggles the rest of the way I wonder if you would feel the same way about his game

Lemmie guess, Paul George is a super star worth 90 mill to right

not to discredit him at all, he is good.. and also playing with future Hall of Famers and for one of the best coaches, so that speeded up is development tremendously, he is there new school Bruce Bowen
1 million % agree with that. That's why I had stated about DD and if he had gone to the Spurs....what type of player would he have become with hall of fame players in his ear and to play along side with AND being coached by one of the best coaches in the history of the NBA.

What type of player would Kawaii be if he came to TO and had the mess that DD had to deal with.

I totally get where you're coming from though I do agree with Niggles on the contract to the player part.

In the end, these are all what-ifs and it doesn't change the fact that DD is one dimensional.

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Old 06-12-2014, 03:17 PM   #94 (permalink)
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That's your guess of Paul George's worth. Stop thinking of players worth in terms of the size of their contract. Duncan, Parker, Ginobli aren't on max contracts, so should our opinions of them adjust?
Well said..

but just saying, imagine a dude like Ross in spurs system
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:37 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Well said..

but just saying, imagine a dude like Ross in spurs system
Not every player will thrive in the Spurs system. Lot's of players are there and don't become long term- e.g. George Hill, Gary Neal. The Spurs do more than any other team to search out the attitude and mind-set of players even before they bring them in. Danny Green and Boris Diaw have the mind-set the Spurs like even though other teams rejected them.

IMO, Ross doesn't have the "Spurs" mind-set.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:49 PM   #96 (permalink)
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The Spurs mindset is to develop hard working young players; more important then hard-working is humble young players.

That's what the Raptors are doing. Developing humble young players, like Derozan. Like Ross.

Trading your 24 year old humble all-star for somebody with more swagger, or the 'it' factor is the opposite of the Spurs mindset. That's the impatient, let's hit a home run New York Knicks mindset.

Thankfully Masai has the Spurs mindset. Chemistry and growth, and likely Demar will be around next year to provide you with another summer to dwell in disappointment after a second round loss in the playoffs.
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:02 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Not every player will thrive in the Spurs system. Lot's of players are there and don't become long term- e.g. George Hill, Gary Neal. The Spurs do more than any other team to search out the attitude and mind-set of players even before they bring them in. Danny Green and Boris Diaw have the mind-set the Spurs like even though other teams rejected them.

IMO, Ross doesn't have the "Spurs" mind-set.
A lot of players don't fit but players like Hill and Neal are bad examples.
Neal wanted more money and Hill was traded to the Pacers during the 2011 NBA draft. A trade which sent 15th overall pick Leonard to the Spurs.
I remember pop said it was very difficult decision to give up Hill since he was a great fit. Love it how people throw names just to make a point.
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:04 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Thankfully Masai has the Spurs mindset. Chemistry and growth,
Have you seen the list of moves he made in Denver?
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:17 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Have you seen the list of moves he made in Denver?
I havn't seen the fully compiled list, but that was a team in transition with Carmelo wanting out. He shipped him out and compiled what I thought was a really good young team. I think he would have been patient with that squad had he continued to be with that organization.
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:34 PM   #100 (permalink)
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The Spurs mindset is to develop hard working young players; more important then hard-working is humble young players.

That's what the Raptors are doing. Developing humble young players, like Derozan. Like Ross.

Trading your 24 year old humble all-star for somebody with more swagger, or the 'it' factor is the opposite of the Spurs mindset. That's the impatient, let's hit a home run New York Knicks mindset.

Thankfully Masai has the Spurs mindset. Chemistry and growth, and likely Demar will be around next year to provide you with another summer to dwell in disappointment after a second round loss in the playoffs.
Malarkey. The Spurs mind-set is to develop young players that will fit their system of how the game is played in San Antonio. It's got nothing to do being humble. Parker's not humble. Duncan's not humble. Ginobli's not humble. They're not outspoken , but they're not humble. Demar's not humble, nor is Ross. Just polite to the public.

Trading your 24 year-old "humble" all-star for more swagger or the it factor are your words, so don't try putting them on me. I'd love to trade DD for Leonard, because Leonard is a far better player than Demar, not because of the "it", but I know that SA would tell me to fuck off and laugh in my face. Not because of some humble issue, but because Demar isn't the player that Leonard is, and SA doesn't want to move backwards.

And yes, if Demar is here next year, it may be a summer of disappointment after a second round loss, but the disappointment will be" Why didn't we move him for more assets that could take us even further"
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