Derozan working with a coach on his dribling/handles - Page 4
Old 06-11-2014, 03:25 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Nope. You keep saying IF he gets better. Since drafted he has been working his ass off and you are saying IF. You either trolling or just a negative nancy.
That is not true.

First off, as I have shown in the past his "improvements" have been incremental or a byproduct of increase in shots.

Secondly, it is an if, nothing is a guarantee. If is the correct word to use.
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:29 PM   #62 (permalink)
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The same Derozan haters are the same people who gave excuses and preached patience with Bargnani. One of the great picks in Raptors history with the No. 9 selection in the 2009 draft. Bargnani is a different story.
I for one wasnt so quick to burn Bargnani at the stake back then.

Instead I preached that he needed to be put into a postion to succeed, which he never was. Which is something currently being done with Demar
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:30 PM   #63 (permalink)
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DD feels he can carry the team as a leader and a player and be the man on the team. Some here feel the same. The others feel he's nothing more but an excellent player but just a complimentary piece to the puzzle - as I do. Now the debate rages but to me, DD doesn't have the "it" factor. I want him too, many here do and he can work his ass off every year of his career and continue to improve as he has but imo, you cannot work yourself into that type of player - either you are or you're not. He's been feed the line since he was drafted that he was and the hope was that he was, everyone here certainly hoped that he was. The ones that still think he can train himself into that role want him to stay. The others that feel he's a complimentary piece are ok with trading him to upgrade. I want an upgrade. Sure, he was an All Star this year but a borderline one imo and if we played in the West - no way. When the East is fully healthy, this year, I doubt it. I don't want to see the team turn into the Nuggets sans 'Melo - a compilation of players that make the playoffs and that's it. Some here feel that's enough so maybe that's a driving force to keep DD. I don't know but I do know I want more. I want to compete for the title or why else are we doing this? Just to be playoff fodder for the contenders? My hair is turning grey enough from my 13 and 15 year old boys.

IMO, if we want to contend then DD has to go. Not for any other reason but how he sees himself on the team. I'm not sure he can step back and take that complimentary role when that's not how he sees himself. As most have stated you need that stud to carry the team into contention and he's not that dude to elevate the team and make everyone better. It's just my truth to the situation and if we can upgrade then DD should be part of the package going out; as the team has become just a little too good to draft the "it" player but far from good to do anything significant in the play-offs. Maybe a miracle will happen and DD will take another "leap" but then, that's been said for how many years now?

I thought maybe MU can build it but so far all I see is MU building another version of the Nuggets without 'Melo. I vacillated between tanking and no tanking but really, Koolaid and DanH are going to end up being correct - we should have tanked when we had the chance before the season started.
Denver was pretty good without Melo, who knows what would have happened if Galo didn't go out heading into the playoffs, Galo was a clutch player for them. Injuries hurt that squad.

Who is the 'it' player that you want? Lebron, Durant?.

Does Kawhi Leanard have the 'it' factor?

Are you aware of somebody with the 'it' factor waiting in the wings waiting to jump into Demar's role?

And why does he have to the man? Forget speculating that he has been fed anything; cannot he not be a great offensive player on the team and be the co-man??

Why would last season contribute to your hair turning grey? Isn't last season what we want as Raptor fans? Without the strong possibility of not winning a championship, how important would winning a championship really be? Why does having anything but a clear contender drive you nuts?

Cheer for the Heat as a second favourite team. Maybe that's why my hair isn't grey.

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Old 06-11-2014, 03:36 PM   #64 (permalink)
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but there are extremes on both ends. There are also some who don't acknowledge his achievements at all. He can't shoot, pass, or dribble (sound familiar?) we've heard that so often on here it's sickening.
And then there are those of us who can show that his shooting numbers are very poor, last season being a downturn from 2012-2013 season.

And those of us who can see that with an increase in usage making it very reasonable to assess that the upturn in assists can directly be related to the increase in having the ball in ones hands. But since there isn't a metric to determine if he is actually a better passer, or just maintaining the same ratios of shot to pass per possession and getting more assists due to more possessions.
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:37 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Denver was pretty good without Melo, who knows what would have happened if Galo didn't go out heading into the playoffs, Galo was a clutch player for them. Injuries hurt that squad.

Who is the 'it' player that you want? Lebron, Durant?.

Does Kawhi Leanard have the 'it' factor?

Are you aware of somebody with the 'it' factor waiting in the wings waiting to jump into Demar's role?

And why does he have to the man? Forget speculating that he has been fed anything; cannot he not be a great offensive player on the team and be the co-man??

Why would your hair be turning grey after having an incredible entertaining season? Isn't last season what we want as Raptor fans? Without the strong possibility of not winning a championship, how important would winning a championship really be? Why does having anything but a clear contender drive you nuts?

Cheer for the Heat as a second favourite team. Maybe that's why my hair isn't grey.
I like the Spurs and Heat - just good basketball. Both have it players. So does the Pacers, Clippers, and other contenders.

Denver at least had a chance when they got pieces from trading Melo. The Raps do not have that luxury. And as constructed they won't go past the WCF, if they make it but that won't happen with OKC, Spurs, Clippers etc

No Kawaii does not have the it factor. He's a role player.

No, DD cannot be the "co-man" - does not have the skill set or the mindset.

Last season is not what I want, I want to contend. This is not the roster. Why do I have to explain what drives me nuts? Making the play-offs and then being fodder is a joke - just ask the Leafs.

Glad you hair is ok though, at least you'll have that

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Old 06-11-2014, 03:41 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Denver was pretty good without Melo, who knows what would have happened if Galo didn't go out heading into the playoffs, Galo was a clutch player for them. Injuries hurt that squad.

Who is the 'it' player that you want? Lebron, Durant?.

Does Kawhi Leanard have the 'it' factor?

Are you aware of somebody with the 'it' factor waiting in the wings waiting to jump into Demar's role?

And why does he have to the man? Forget speculating that he has been fed anything; cannot he not be a great offensive player on the team and be the co-man??

Why would last season contribute to your hair turning grey? Isn't last season what we want as Raptor fans? Without the strong possibility of not winning a championship, how important would winning a championship really be? Why does having anything but a clear contender drive you nuts?

Cheer for the Heat as a second favourite team. Maybe that's why my hair isn't grey.
Demar's role should be much lower than it is.

This season was lighting in a bottle, and if it wasnt for the increase in usage, shots etc, and Lowry going beast for the season, Demar would be another also ran instead of a coaches choice allstar in a season in which multiple time allstars where all injured.
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:22 PM   #67 (permalink)
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This is nothing more than a classic case of: "If you can't be with the one you love,love the one you"re with "

LOL Demar could be a one night stand.
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:49 PM   #68 (permalink)
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This is nothing more than a classic case of: "If you can't be with the one you love,love the one you"re with "

LOL Demar could be a one night stand.
Yep, the one night stand that when you wake up her shit's already in your bathroom
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:55 PM   #69 (permalink)
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I for one wasnt so quick to burn Bargnani at the stake back then.

Instead I preached that he needed to be put into a postion to succeed, which he never was. Which is something currently being done with Demar
Lets see. Bargnani needs a defensive eraser to help his poor help defense and low defensive IQ. The Knicks have Tyson Chandler. Bargnani should not be option No. 1 and should have elite an offensive player to feed him perimeter shots because his best position is a stretch four. Knicks have Anthony. Hey, whatever team you put Kwame Brown, Kwame Brown will be Kwame Brown. Same story holds for Bargnani.
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:56 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Yep, the one night stand that when you wake up her shit's already in your bathroom
Oh, you know it.
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:31 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Lets see. Bargnani needs a defensive eraser to help his poor help defense and low defensive IQ. The Knicks have Tyson Chandler. Bargnani should not be option No. 1 and should have elite an offensive player to feed him perimeter shots because his best position is a stretch four. Knicks have Anthony. Hey, whatever team you put Kwame Brown, Kwame Brown will be Kwame Brown. Same story holds for Bargnani.
yup
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:38 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Still sore about tanking?
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:40 AM   #73 (permalink)
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IMO, if we want to contend then DD has to go.
best record in franchise history.. 24 year old ALL-STAR making 40 mil. go where, is KD or bron coming?
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:18 AM   #74 (permalink)
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best record in franchise history.. 24 year old ALL-STAR making 40 mil. go where, is KD or bron coming?
Agreed. That's exactly my point. Last time I checked neither was willing to move north of the border.
Do people really think we have a waiting list of FA who are willing to come here?
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:57 AM   #75 (permalink)
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best record in franchise history.. 24 year old ALL-STAR making 40 mil. go where, is KD or bron coming?
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Agreed. That's exactly my point. Last time I checked neither was willing to move north of the border.
Do people really think we have a waiting list of FA who are willing to come here?
Yes, it was an accomplishment, good on him. He would be hard pressed to duplicate that achievement in the East this coming year and he wouldn't do it playing in the West. It would be easier for him if he was a 2 way player which he's not. That record was fun and thank goodness the team and DD had Lowry and the East was so weakened or neither would have happened: you watched the team's play when KL sat? ISO and hero ball as DD couldn't elevate the play of his team mates, it's what happens when a complimentary piece takes over. And in the second half of the season, when other teams were surging and starting to get a little healthier, the Raps struggled to hold any ground - doesn't bode well: should have the all star selection at the end of the year and DD most likely wouldn't be in there but I guess they do in a sense, when the league has the All-NBA team selections. Crossed fingers JV puts it together, as other than KL, he's now become the biggest hope for the team to be that 2 way player that elevates his team mates. Hopefully the team runs the ball more through him this year and not so much DD - JV has shown in the past prior to the NBA that when the ball goes through him his teams have a higher chance to win as he's a better facilitator and team player. He showed that this past year when that happened in brief stints, usually when DD sits and he has the opportunity to be more involved on offence. He has a ways to go though.

Add all that to your FA comment and I can see why many were pro rebuilders here - to get that high level talent in whether they want to or not - but that ship has left the dock atm. The pro rebuilders weren't about bashing anybody, they just want to have the best record in the post season as this current roster won't do that - but they are fun to watch. Now, the teams best hope is to make TO as enticing as possible. Couldn't do it with just the players so enter heavy duty power marketing and Drake. Go Drake go.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:10 AM   #76 (permalink)
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If you look at the facts, your opinion looks somewhat unrealistic.

1. Demar was an all-star
2. Demar was the 10th leading scorer in the NBA
3. He had two 30-point games in his first playoff appearance and averaged 24. There are countless examples of players with more hype than DD struggling to break 20 in the playoffs.
4. He's 24.

That's a big crazy to think he's a problem that needs to go. How many 24 year olds around the league have had that success.

The argument that he's been entitled, that their has been some large conspiracy to get Demar touches and shots and "feed" him the idea he is the man despite him being an incapable two way basketball player is ludicrous. That is internet NBA conspiracy at it's best.

It's like you've already cleared the season from your memory.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:00 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Woah, he's 24? I could've sworn he was 26 by now!


Excellent.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:10 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Woah, he's 24? I could've sworn he was 26 by now!


Excellent.
He's 25 in 6 weeks. What does that matter?
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:11 AM   #79 (permalink)
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If you look at the facts, your opinion looks somewhat unrealistic.

1. Demar was an all-star
2. Demar was the 10th leading scorer in the NBA
3. He had two 30-point games in his first playoff appearance and averaged 24. There are countless examples of players with more hype than DD struggling to break 20 in the playoffs.
4. He's 24.

That's a big crazy to think he's a problem that needs to go. How many 24 year olds around the league have had that success.

The argument that he's been entitled, that their has been some large conspiracy to get Demar touches and shots and "feed" him the idea he is the man despite him being an incapable two way basketball player is ludicrous. That is internet NBA conspiracy at it's best.

It's like you've already cleared the season from your memory.
What's your point? He's a one way player that couldn't defend or elevate his team in the playoffs where it matters. There's the point.

As for conspiracy stuff...it doesn't matter to me. All I see is what he does on the court. He's a complimentary piece on a contending team. Why is that hard to accept? If he can accept his role based on his skillset there is no problem. I don't recall ever stating his offence is the reason he should go.

For the record, Lance is/was far more deserving of that selection that DD was, he's a far better all around player and he's a year younger - he just pisses too many coaches off - the ones that made the selection.

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Old 06-12-2014, 10:25 AM   #80 (permalink)
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As for DD's age - yes, he's just under 25, but my concern is that he has already logged almost 13000 minutes in the NBA. Typically players see the beginning of their peak around 10000 minutes in. So even if he's a late bloomer, he's well past that time frame in terms of NBA experience. So although I do expect him to continue improving, I don't see him making the big leap defensively, or in terms of offensive decision making, that I think he needs to be a key piece to a championship contending team.
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