Derozan has got to go - Page 5
Old 03-20-2014, 10:16 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Demar's perceived "terrible" defense is greatly and hugely exaggerated, and the only way he would be able to shed the reputation of being a terrible defender amongst many fans who don't really know what good or bad defense is, would be to become a all-nba defensive player.

He's cautious with putting his body on the line, and he definitely coasts a little bit saving himself for the offensive end. Much like Lebron, Wade, Durant, and pretty much any number one option.

But it's also becoming more and more regular where Demar will make the big defensive play, especially in fourth quarters. He's starting to use his versatility not only to make the big steal in the backcourt, but also make some timely blocks down low.

Finally, he doesn't get abused on defense one on one - this just doesn't happen. Teams go back door on him, teams sneak behind him and get offensive rebounds, but I would love for somebody to point out the last time any shooting guard abused Demar one on one.

When has a team gone at him and exposed weak man to man defense? It doesn't happen.


As for his handle, I don't know what people are expecting him to do, like fucking dribble around like Bob Cousy killing the clock and being a Harlem Globetrotter or something. How does a guy become one of the best shooting guards in the league with a horrible handle? How is that even possible? Room for improvement, sure, but don't exaggerate - it makes no sense.

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Old 03-20-2014, 11:02 AM   #82 (permalink)
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I've been saying it for a while now but DeMar DeRozan is simply not a player you build your team around.

He has got to go.
Ya, we would have totally won last nights game without DD in the fold......:mu:
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:04 AM   #83 (permalink)
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DeMar's issue on defense isn't man-to-man. He gets lost sagging to help at the wrong times, providing no real help while leaving his man open. Of all the various rotation fails that lead to open 3 pointers, DD is by far the leader in being the cause. It's frustrating because he could easily be so much better at it.

He has certainly improved over time, he's just still quite bad. Decent man defender (nothing special, but decent), good eye for passing lanes (picking off key steals at the end of games is becoming a nice pattern), but he's still one of the two biggest weak links in defensive rotations (he and JV) in the starting group. Seems to me it's an area he can improve on, if he spends some time reviewing film, and focusing on defense.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:22 AM   #84 (permalink)
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When the rest of the guys are playing well (not like against Atlanta), he's definitely one of the weaker links as far as getting caught watching, he's often standing up straight and has poor body positioning; but imo he definitely increases his focus on that end of the floor in the fourth and the mistakes are fewer and further between.

He's not a weaklink that is exploited, but rather the culprit of an occasional lack of focus that leads periodically to a few more defensive breakdowns than what is desired.

Last edited by bjjs; 03-20-2014 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:49 AM   #85 (permalink)
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DeMar's issue on defense isn't man-to-man. He gets lost sagging to help at the wrong times, providing no real help while leaving his man open. Of all the various rotation fails that lead to open 3 pointers, DD is by far the leader in being the cause. It's frustrating because he could easily be so much better at it.

He has certainly improved over time, he's just still quite bad. Decent man defender (nothing special, but decent), good eye for passing lanes (picking off key steals at the end of games is becoming a nice pattern), but he's still one of the two biggest weak links in defensive rotations (he and JV) in the starting group. Seems to me it's an area he can improve on, if he spends some time reviewing film, and focusing on defense.
It's called the Jose Calderon effect.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:11 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:31 PM   #87 (permalink)
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When the rest of the guys are playing well (not like against Atlanta), he's definitely one of the weaker links as far as getting caught watching, he's often standing up straight and has poor body positioning; but imo he definitely increases his focus on that end of the floor in the fourth and the mistakes are fewer and further between.

He's not a weaklink that is exploited, but rather the culprit of an occasional lack of focus that leads periodically to a few more defensive breakdowns than what is desired.
In winning time, that's the very definition of a weak-link.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:22 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Though i don't completely dismiss the idea that DeMar would be less useful with fewer touches as the Sophomores grow and need more shots, i think you just need to see the result from a few games ago, when he took a backseat for much of the game against Memphis. I could see his defensive intensity and commitment growing under such circumstances, keeping in mind how much energy needs to be expended on that end of the floor. Kyle has not played too many complete games on the defensive end, and when he goes through a bad stretch of fatigue it shows dramatically. Bosh became a key defender once he had two other guys to carry the offensive load. And it's just something that will wane with even defensive specialists during the grind of the regular season.

The playoffs are going to be a nice test for DeRozan. There's no reason he needs to stick with a certain style of play. I think he has already made significant adjustments in recognition of that, and probably understands that getting to a higher gear in do or die games will not be about getting a hot shooting hand as much as digging in on both ends and scrapping every possession.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:29 PM   #89 (permalink)
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And i have to admit that I thought he might have taken some games, like in Brooklyn and against the Suns, too lightly, and was coasting on a plus .500 record a little bit. I don't feel so sure of that though. I think he is feeling the pressure for the first time over some extended stretches, and also feeling mental and physical fatigue from both the pressure and in fact digging in more on the defensive end more consistently. I think he is finding where his limits are physically and figuring things out mentally as a result. Hopefully he is going through it enough to have it pay off come playoff time.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:33 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu View Post
Agree with it all but one thing. People keep saying but I don't see it. For Demar's usage his handle is not bad. Yes he turns the ball over and yes its frustrating, but it seems like more to us because we are Raptors fans, but he turns the ball over less than lots of similar usage players. Kobe for example turns the ball over far more. I think he's already average. thoughts?
I don't think Demars handles are average yet, but it's kinda mute debate so, I will agree. What's frustrating for me the most with his dribble is not the turnovers (he doesn't turn the ball over all that much), but his inability to get where he needs to on the floor resulting in him taking pullup j or passing it to someone. And if he gets double teamed he is screwed, which as Thriller mentioned in the playoffs it will be evident.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:37 PM   #91 (permalink)
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This thread still has legs lol?

NO DD doesn't need to go right now. Firstly he's a young improving talent on a reasonable and manageable contract. He hasn't demanded out or proven to be a bad fit or chemistry killer for the team who isn't coachable.

Its fair to critique him(even if its only after bad performances ignoring his good ones like some posters do) but to conclude that he has no future with franchise right now is ludicrous imo because getting rid of him doesn't guarantee the Raps are gonna get better immediately,especially since they seem to be building with this core rather than tearing it apart and starting over.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:40 PM   #92 (permalink)
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I don't think Demars handles are average yet, but it's kinda mute debate so, I will agree. What's frustrating for me the most with his dribble is not the turnovers (he doesn't turn the ball over all that much), but his inability to get where he needs to on the floor resulting in him taking pullup j or passing it to someone. And if he gets double teamed he is screwed, which as Thriller mentioned in the playoffs it will be evident.
a pull-up j = lack of ability is faulty logic.
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:03 PM   #93 (permalink)
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your doubt is based on what? he's slowly improved on it each season he's been in the league.
Well MJ was always double or triple teamed so the shots that he took were, much much harder. including 3's, but if Demar ever has a season shooting 50% from the 3 with nearly 2atempts per game (like Jordan did) quote me on it and I will be happy to say that I was wrong.

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I never said he'll be as good as jordan, and if that's all that'll separate demar from jordan, at a 9 mil/year salary? sign me up.
Not sure where you got that it's the only thing that separates them, but I will give you benefit of the doubt and assume, that you know it's not. What I am saying is that comparing their games is stupid because demar doesn't have the handles.
Demar has a good contract but let's not get silly.

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i'd say he's already average at defending. And yeah, way to completely misquote me. I said Bargnani is an average to good man to man, 1v1, in the post, defender. And he is. his length and mobility for his size gives him that.
No you said:

Quote:
The fact that hes not just not bad at it, but elite at it.
talking about 1on 1 here.


also I find some similarities with your DD or Bargs love, seems like you are very quick to jump the bandwagon and exaggerate about their game:

Quote:
this just simply isn't true. if he's not scoring, he pulls down those boards..hmm

but if he;s not pulling down boards, at least he's in great shape and being high energy.. oh wait, that was val...





I jest, i'm a Bargnani fan. he brings so much more to this team than people see. just because he's our highest (or second highest to caldy?) paid player, they expect him to play at a max salary level. he can't and rightfully so isn't paid that much. bargnani, even if he doesn't score, creates chances for the others on the team due to the attention he draws. I'm sure there's a stat that can back me up here, danh?
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Ty carp! People expect Bargs to play like superstars when he's paid slightly more than the likes of deandre Jordan!
talking about your love for Derozan (and Bargs)..

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who do you say is better, really. lowry? hasn't played a single game for us yet, and had a massive drop in form off an injury. you can't possibly say he's better. who else, val? i hope not, cause he may be, in 3-4 years, but certainly not now. Derozan? please, is slowly getting better at D but offensively, if he was the number one option, he'd have 20 turnover's a game.

carp, Sj, where are you guys? help me out!
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:07 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Well MJ was always double or triple teamed so the shots that he took were, much much harder. including 3's, but if Demar ever has a season shooting 50% from the 3 with nearly 2atempts per game (like Jordan did) quote me on it and I will be happy to say that I was wrong.



Not sure where you got that it's the only thing that separates them, but I will give you benefit of the doubt and assume, that you know it's not. What I am saying is that comparing their games is stupid because demar doesn't have the handles.
Demar has a good contract but let's not get silly.



No you said:

talking about 1on 1 here.


also I find some similarities with your DD or Bargs love, seems like you are very quick to jump the bandwagon and exaggerate about their game:





talking about your love for Derozan (and Bargs)..
Yup. I always remember how pzabby drooled over Bargs - calling him elite and so forth.

And how others did as well. Especially when I first came onto this site the # of ppl on here who were riding his c**k was insane.
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:10 PM   #95 (permalink)
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a pull-up j = lack of ability is faulty logic.
Not really, if defense forces him to settle for a contested j (without double teaming) that's lack of ability to get where he wanted to create a better shot.
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:14 PM   #96 (permalink)
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I don't think Demars handles are average yet, but it's kinda mute debate so, I will agree. What's frustrating for me the most with his dribble is not the turnovers (he doesn't turn the ball over all that much), but his inability to get where he needs to on the floor resulting in him taking pullup j or passing it to someone. And if he gets double teamed he is screwed, which as Thriller mentioned in the playoffs it will be evident.
His handles are so poor that he gets to the line 7.8 times a game, which is 7th in the NBA and ahead of James, Paul, Anthony, Westbrook, etc. Since the Gay trade, he's averaging over 8.5 FTAs a game, which would put him in a tie for 5th.

He doesn't have great handles, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be. And I don't think he needs to improve his ballhandling that much to be more effective because he'll never be, and we shouldn't expect him to be, a magician with the ball like Chris Paul. What I would like to see him improve upon is his explosion with the ball in his hands, basically improving his first step to the room and being able to run full speed while maintaining a solid dribble. These are things he can work on.
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:19 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Yup. I always remember how pzabby drooled over Bargs - calling him elite and so forth.

And how others did as well. Especially when I first came onto this site the # of ppl on here who were riding his c**k was insane.
well now is time when you can say ''I told you so'', :mattyd:
Btw while looking through some of the older threads I found that many people. Were really skeptical about Lowry before he even played a game. Me you and Jeff ( possibly few others) were minority trying to defend KL.

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Old 03-20-2014, 04:27 PM   #98 (permalink)
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well now is time when you can say ''I told you so'', :mattyd:
Btw while looking through some of the older threads I found that many people. Were really skeptical about Lowry before he even played a game. Me you and Jeff ( possibly few others) were minority trying to defend KL.

You see the thing is I was essentially saying I told you so even when Bargs was here.

Yeah. I mentioned before he had even played a game here that he was the best player on the squad and then pzabby said DD (which could be understandable) and Bargs were better than him.
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:31 PM   #99 (permalink)
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I loved the addition of Lowry. I thought a lot of people did. Bargnani and Calderon always had a great deal of love. They were never all-stars. And i don't know that anyone would say DeMar is elite. I just think he is effective and impactful. That could change within the way the team gets constructed. A wait and see approach should persist, because frankly his value is not going to dive. But i think he understands what he needs to do to be more impactful, even as this team evolves.

As for him taking pullup j's, that should hardly be caused by double teams in today's nba, where there is often very little room to maneuver in the paint. We saw DeMar get to the basket with no problem last night. Was that because his handles suddenly improved? Or was it because Anthony Davis wasn't waiting there? The truth is that he has done a good job of finding openings to at least get freethrows, and when there is nothing there he makes the pass or takes the pullup.
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:46 PM   #100 (permalink)
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His handles are so poor that he gets to the line 7.8 times a game, which is 7th in the NBA and ahead of James, Paul, Anthony, Westbrook, etc. Since the Gay trade, he's averaging over 8.5 FTAs a game, which would put him in a tie for 5th.

He doesn't have great handles, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be. And I don't think he needs to improve his ballhandling that much to be more effective because he'll never be, and we shouldn't expect him to be, a magician with the ball like Chris Paul. What I would like to see him improve upon is his explosion with the ball in his hands, basically improving his first step to the room and being able to run full speed while maintaining a solid dribble. These are things he can work on.
He gets to the line alot because he is a slasher( more than that now) and established reputation to go hard to the rim. He was always hacked when going hard to the rim, but didn't get enough respect from the refs in the past.
I'd like him to learn change direction or stop on the dime while running full speed. This would give him much more options than just run in to a crowd and hope for foul call(mostly late in the games)

Last edited by LOG; 03-20-2014 at 04:50 PM.
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