DeRozan or Bargnani - Page 3
Old 11-02-2012, 01:14 PM   #41 (permalink)
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yep, amnesty on LKZ or Amir are options.

LKZ would only save us 4.5mill odd and i would be sad to see amir go but it could give us some room to do something.
Amir actually has a role on the team though.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:14 PM   #42 (permalink)
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i hear you, i do, but hoping for a consistent 20pt scorer is a big hope. It's unlikely ross will ever be that either, coz not many players are. So i want ross to get enough mins to get experience and develop but DD is a good player and could get better, he's who we're going with.

we're all worried about landry but he should become a player who doesn't make 6mill a year seem like crazy money. It's not as bad a contract as people make out.

almost every team wants to get rid of 1 or 2 contracts, but expecting to get players as good as DD, fields (at his best,) Amir and kleiza for SIGNIFICANTLY less is not realistic imo.

this is the team we're going with. We still have possible trades and the amnesty to give us some wiggle room.
This is where we might disagree....

I think that it's tough to find good BIGS cheap (which is why we should have taken Drummond no matter what).... and good PGs.... but decent wings/guards are a dime a dozen.

I would have been more than happy to play Ross and Anderson this season and would have tried to bring Weems back LAST season for cheap as well.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:28 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Amir actually has a role on the team though.
agreed, i like amir. amnestying amir would save us close to 7mill tho.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:33 PM   #44 (permalink)
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This is where we might disagree....

I think that it's tough to find good BIGS cheap (which is why we should have taken Drummond no matter what).... and good PGs.... but decent wings/guards are a dime a dozen.

I would have been more than happy to play Ross and Anderson this season and would have tried to bring Weems back LAST season for cheap as well.
i can see the logic to drafting drummond.

but DD is not "decent," he's good. And having decent wings isn't going to get us anywhere. fields is a good defender who hopefully will return to being a pretty good scorer and his contract looks bad right now but it's not gonna hurt us that badly in the long-term imo.

i don't see your vision of how we turn into a winning team and i reckon it smacks a bit too much of "best case scenario."
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:48 PM   #45 (permalink)
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i can see the logic to drafting drummond.

but DD is not "decent," he's good. And having decent wings isn't going to get us anywhere. fields is a good defender who hopefully will return to being a pretty good scorer and his contract looks bad right now but it's not gonna hurt us that badly in the long-term imo.

i don't see your vision of how we turn into a winning team and i reckon it smacks a bit too much of "best case scenario."
*shrug* Perhaps you're right....

I'd have been more than content to go with 2 or 3 promising bigs (JV, Drummond, Ed) coupled with a solid vet one (Gray), some cheap wings, Fields, Ross and a star PG in Lowry.

A lineup like that keeps us flexible AND shows us what we have with our young guys.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:17 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Also, we're stuck with Landry.
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We're stuck with DD too.
I don't understand some people. BC has a clear weakness as a GM - he overvalues cap space and flexibility, occasionally undervalues draft picks, and at the same time is prone to bidding against himself to pay players based on promise rather than performance - thus overvaluing players he gets via those same draft picks. However, he also has a clear strength - he's shown time and time again, if he wants to move someone, he can do it. And he rarely loses in those deals. He'll take risks, sure. But he can move any contract.

I have my gripes with BC, but after trading Hedo's corpse for a cheaper, shorter contract attached to a moderately useful player like Barbosa, I will never again say something like "We're stuck with..." such and such a player.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:21 PM   #47 (permalink)
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*shrug* Perhaps you're right....

I'd have been more than content to go with 2 or 3 promising bigs (JV, Drummond, Ed) coupled with a solid vet one (Gray), some cheap wings, Fields, Ross and a star PG in Lowry.

A lineup like that keeps us flexible AND shows us what we have with our young guys.
*shrug* perhaps YOU'RE right. haha.

i really do see the logic to that model of development, i just don't think it's any more likely to succeed. Eventually you have to pay your better players tho imo, whether they're as good as you want them to be or not.

and i couldn't agree with your assertion that signing decent wings on the cheap would've been enough to make us competitive. They would be better value than DD but they wouldn't be able to do what he does and the team would be worse.

i guess your vision had us signing a great FA to complete the roster, by no means a given, or hoping that a future draft pick was the finished article, not even a given for a no.1 pick!
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:28 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I'm open to all possibilities concerning building a winning franchise. If someone comes to you with an opportunity to double your money, do you not at least hear him out?
If it takes more than 8 years.. No. By that I mean.. everything is related to time.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:34 PM   #49 (permalink)
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*shrug* perhaps YOU'RE right. haha.

i really do see the logic to that model of development, i just don't think it's any more likely to succeed. Eventually you have to pay your better players tho imo, whether they're as good as you want them to be or not.

and i couldn't agree with your assertion that signing decent wings on the cheap would've been enough to make us competitive. They would be better value than DD but they wouldn't be able to do what he does and the team would be worse.

i guess your vision had us signing a great FA to complete the roster, by no means a given, or hoping that a future draft pick was the finished article, not even a given for a no.1 pick!
My thinking behind that plan would be to develop the team for another 2 seasons and then trade pieces as necessary once their rookie contracts are up (or re-up them if they're really good).

For example... you let DD play out this season and see where he stands. Then you trade him (he'll get some looks from some teams) or re-up him if he really gets better.

You do the same thing for Ed.... and the same thing for Ross in a few years.

Hopefully you trade these guys for MORE good 1st round picks or "diamond in the rough" type players.

In the meantime you're getting petty good production for a bargain basement price.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:37 PM   #50 (permalink)
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If it takes more than 8 years.. No. By that I mean.. everything is related to time.
You'd have to hear it out to know that.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:38 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I don't understand some people. BC has a clear weakness as a GM - he overvalues cap space and flexibility, occasionally undervalues draft picks, and at the same time is prone to bidding against himself to pay players based on promise rather than performance - thus overvaluing players he gets via those same draft picks. However, he also has a clear strength - he's shown time and time again, if he wants to move someone, he can do it. And he rarely loses in those deals. He'll take risks, sure. But he can move any contract.

I have my gripes with BC, but after trading Hedo's corpse for a cheaper, shorter contract attached to a moderately useful player like Barbosa, I will never again say something like "We're stuck with..." such and such a player.
fair enough... I suppose there are always other teams with different needs.
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:04 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Hopefully you trade these guys for MORE good 1st round picks or "diamond in the rough" type players.

.
How do you know that the players your trading don't end up being the "diamonds in the rough"?
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:06 PM   #53 (permalink)
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How do you know that the players your trading don't end up being the "diamonds in the rough"?
It's possible. You might keep them if you can re-sign them to reasonable (not inflated) contracts. Really depends on what you need. No such thing as a "no risk scenario".
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:37 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I don't understand some people. BC has a clear weakness as a GM - he overvalues cap space and flexibility, occasionally undervalues draft picks, and at the same time is prone to bidding against himself to pay players based on promise rather than performance - thus overvaluing players he gets via those same draft picks. However, he also has a clear strength - he's shown time and time again, if he wants to move someone, he can do it. And he rarely loses in those deals. He'll take risks, sure. But he can move any contract.

I have my gripes with BC, but after trading Hedo's corpse for a cheaper, shorter contract attached to a moderately useful player like Barbosa, I will never again say something like "We're stuck with..." such and such a player.
touche. there are always idiotic teams/gms out there.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:03 AM   #55 (permalink)
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we're stuck with derozan because of BC's love affair with his picks.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:43 AM   #56 (permalink)
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we're stuck with derozan because of BC's love affair with his picks.
yeah, falling in love with the guys you drafted can pose a problem.
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