Demar Derozan: Top 5 SG league-wide? - Page 2
Old 01-30-2014, 01:15 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Their are pitfalls with any statistic used in isolation, which is why none of them prove anything. Looking at these lists; I maintain that ppg is as good a metric as any at ranking scoring shooting guards.

PPG
1. Harden
2. Derozan
3. Afflalo
4. Dragic
5. Ellis
6. Martin
7. Thompson
8. Crawford

9. Hayward
10. Matthews

PER
1. Dragic
2. Wade
3. Harden
4. Ginobli
5. Redick
6. Derozan
7. Afflalo
8. Ellis
9. Matthews
10. Hayward

Last edited by bjjs; 01-30-2014 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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bledsoe is not on it either

Before demar, I'd absolutely take wade, harden and bledsoe and kobe if he can return to something close to the pre-injury level. Manu is too hurt to count anymore.

Beyond those 4, there is large group of players who have about the same value, but are very different in style. Some are better supporting players (korver, matthews, thompson, beal, bradley, reddick, butler, martin), others are better shot creators (waiters, demar, stephenson, oladipo, gordon, tyreke evans, mayo, ellis or afflalo).

I think demar as a starter doesn't really work on most elite teams, they'd do better with somebody from the 1st group of supporting players. On the other hand, put the ball in korver's hands and ask him to generate offense and you'll get a shitload of turnovers and nothing else.

Then there's defense, where demar is in the bottom half. So I think it's really, really difficult to make a case that he is the best of that 2nd tier (in order to rank top 5 league wide).

If you want to say he's in the running for 5th in the league, sure - you have an argument there. Maybe next year ...
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
Their are pitfalls with any statistic used in isolation, which is why none of them prove anything. Looking at these lists; I maintain that ppg is as good a metric as any at ranking scoring shooting guards.

PPG
1. Harden
2. Derozan
3. Afflalo
4. Dragic
5. Ellis
6. Martin
7. Thompson
8. Crawford

9. Hayward
10. Matthews

PER
1. Dragic
2. Wade
3. Harden
4. Ginobli
5. Redick
6. Derozan
7. Afflalo
8. Ellis
9. Matthews
10. Hayward

per is only marginally more useful than ppg, as it doesn't account for defense.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:23 PM   #24 (permalink)
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When it comes to ranking DeMar, I think it depends on what you make of that pre-trade stretch where he was scoring a bunch of points on Afflalo-like efficiency as a second option to Rudy Gay. That's what a contender would want DeMar to do. Be an efficient complimentary scoring option. If you think that's fluky, you can't rank him high. If you think he can reproduce something close to that stretch over a full season on a good team, then he's a top 5 SG.

In the end, the only question that matters in these rankings IMO is which player would a contender rather have. Who cares who has the highest points per game or who can score in a flashy way on a mediocre team, or who has the most 30 point games.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:41 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The playoffs is where you can't hide. We'll know more about Demar after his first playoff series.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:43 PM   #26 (permalink)
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The playoffs is where you can't hide. We'll know more about Demar after his first playoff series.
it's also very small sample size

barnes did great in the playoffs, but struggled ever since. what are to believe, who is the real harrison barnes?
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:51 PM   #27 (permalink)
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it's also very small sample size

barnes did great in the playoffs, but struggled ever since. what are to believe, who is the real harrison barnes?
Barnes started 81 games last season and was healthy. This season he's in a different role and had an injury early in the season. His shooting percentages are good (40 3PT%) but his touches are inconsistent given the talent on that roster. I would love having Barnes here.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:00 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I like him too, just saying - playoff performance is not necessarily a better indicator if the sample size is small. Easy to get hot over a 5-6 games stretch, or exploit a favourable matchup.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:22 PM   #29 (permalink)
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DeRozan is a top 5 SG right now and I'm happy he's a Raptor. He's worked very hard since entering the league being closer to his "floor" and has steadily progressed towards his "ceiling", which seems to be raising. DD deserves alot of credit,he could've easily had turned out to be Joey Graham.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:25 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Since when is Dragic list as a SG? lol.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:58 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Since when is Dragic list as a SG? lol.
Dragic and Bledsoe had been starting together, so one of them had to be listed as a SG.
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:03 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Derozan doesnt get enough credit around here this year and the only reason is per isnt higher is playing 20 games with Rudy Gay.
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:10 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Derozan doesnt get enough credit around here this year
please.....:gay:
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:17 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Derozan doesnt get enough credit around here this year and the only reason is per isnt higher is playing 20 games with Rudy Gay.
His best stretch of basketball this year was next to Rudy Gay. Those 10 games prior to the trade, where he was averaging 24-25 points with high efficiency. Before and after, he's been inconsistent and overall inefficient.
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:19 PM   #35 (permalink)
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it's also very small sample size

barnes did great in the playoffs, but struggled ever since. what are to believe, who is the real harrison barnes?
Small sample size doesn't matter imo. This is what all the hard work is for, from being little kids to their current situation. NBA playoffs - playing for the championship. Either they're focused or they aren't. It's a war, it's not about being lucky. Lucky players don't catch fire and win in the playoffs. Great players win in the playoffs. The strategy is maginified with teams locked in on one opponent for 1-2 straight weeks. Match-ups are huge. Defenses are locked in on weaknesses and vice versa.

Harrison Barnes is a bad comparison.
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Old 01-30-2014, 06:28 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Harrison Barnes is a bad comparison.
how come?
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Old 01-30-2014, 09:48 PM   #37 (permalink)
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PPG alone is useless. PPG and PER is slightly better but still nothing that great. Now, if you have eFG%, TS%, PPG, PER, ORAT, DRAT and WS/48 minutes (aka the stat that does the most to determine how many wins a player produces) then that's much better. Than you can add in how the team does when the player is off the floor compared to when he's on the floor. Case in point with DD - when he's off the court, the team scores 1.3 points more (per 100 possessions). When he's off the court, the team allows 3 points less (per 100 possessions). bref and 82games are nice sites to check things up.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:25 PM   #38 (permalink)
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how come?
role
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:43 PM   #39 (permalink)
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His best stretch of basketball this year was next to Rudy Gay. Those 10 games prior to the trade, where he was averaging 24-25 points with high efficiency. Before and after, he's been inconsistent and overall inefficient.
And in the 14 (or so) games after the trade he's avgd 24/6/4.

Seems pretty consistent to me.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:09 PM   #40 (permalink)
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And in the 14 (or so) games after the trade he's avgd 24/6/4.

Seems pretty consistent to me.
The numbers I see:

Last 10 games before the trade
24.2 pts, 3.9 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 49.2% FG, 42.9% 3pt, 58.7% TS

First 14 games without Rudy
20.7 pts, 5.1 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 41.5% FG, 18.4% 3pt, 49.9% TS

Last edited by woodchuck; 01-31-2014 at 08:17 PM.
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