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-   -   Demar Derozan or Jimmy Butler? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/demar-derozan-jimmy-butler-26231.html)

jeffb 12-22-2013 02:57 PM

Demar Derozan or Jimmy Butler?
 
NBA Top shooting guards: Who's better? - ESPN

Quote:

Dubin:*Butler, so long as the "real" Butler bears more resemblance to the one we saw for the last 50 or so games of last season instead of the one we saw the first nine games of this season, which I believe it does. Put more simply, I have more confidence that Butler is an impact defender than I do that DeRozan is a solid playmaker with a 3-point stroke.

Elhassan:*Butler, although this is a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison. They are asked to do different things; DeRozan is a high-usage scoring wing while Butler is a 3-and-D specialist. However, DeRozan isn't superlative at his role, while Butler is. Also, DeRozan's bang-for-buck ratio is considerably worse than Butler's.

Lynch:*Jimmy Butler. He's fighting injuries this season, but when he's healthy -- and I think he'll be back to 100 percent soon -- he's the better defender by quite a bit, and a slightly more efficient offensive option. DeRozan gets unfairly maligned at times, but I worry that his efficiency might take a bit of a dip if he's required to take some of the shots that the recently relocated*Rudy Gay*was taking in Toronto.

Robb:*Jimmy Butler. DeRozan has made strides this season, but lacks the kind of consistency on both ends of the floor you want to see in a shooting guard. Meanwhile, Butler is younger, a better shooter, and already has proven he can handle big-time games against quality opposition.

Strauss:*Jimmy Butler plays a wiser brand of basketball. Even in a "great" DeRozan season, DeMar's still not scoring all that efficiently. I prefer Butler's defense and his "less is more" approach to offense.

KoolAid 12-22-2013 03:16 PM

Seems about right, though I think of Butler as a 3 playing the 2 because of a teammate, similar to what Paul George did early in his career.

Toby 12-22-2013 03:23 PM

I haven't seen Jimmy Butler make a basket yet this year. Watched a handful of Bulls games on WGN.

Ball Don't Lie 12-22-2013 03:58 PM

I'd take Butler too. He's one of the best defensive players in the NBA, and his offence, like Derozans, has improved a lot year by year. The difference is CHIs offence doesn't include Butler as a primary option so hes limited to being a spot up shooter or late clock slasher, but he's extremely smart and you know that he's going to make the right plays nightly. In general, this comparison comes down to defence, because if Demar could improve to become an above average defender, than he'd be the better player, but he still hasn't shown that he can be a good defender on a consistent basis. Being elite at something as big as individual and team defence sets Butler apart in this comparison.

jeffb 12-22-2013 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby (Post 845766)
I haven't seen Jimmy Butler make a basket yet this year. Watched a handful of Bulls games on WGN.

I have him on my fantasy team. When he's healthy he's been quite good.

moremilk 12-22-2013 04:33 PM

it's a tough one, last season it would have been an easy choice ... I think demar is a little better, but butler is a better building piece. Salary wise, soon butler will have to be paid, so long term it's not that big of an advantage.

for me, demar has the same issue as bosh, what he does best, he doesn't do it well enough. And you absolutely have to pair him with a defensive specialist on the wings, you don't want demar defending durant or lebron or george in the playoffs. Butler you can plug on any team and will fit like a glove ...

RaptorsVictim 12-22-2013 05:13 PM

Man, regardless who is better, I think Derozan is facing alot of pressure and alot of disrespect. The guy is on the block for getting traded and comparisons between him and other players is emerging.

bjjs 12-22-2013 06:18 PM

Derozan. It is comparing apples to oranges. Butler gets the benefit of the doubt for playing a role, any role in a playoff series.

If Derozan stays at the level he's at now, and Butler doesn't improve, Derozan is the better player. Derozan staying as a top 15 scorer in the league is better than being a tier 2 defensive stopper. The opportunity for Butler to show his offensive arsenal is right there waiting for him, Chicago is desperate for someone to step up.

LOG 12-22-2013 06:26 PM

I would not trade DD for Butler

TORaptor4Ever 12-22-2013 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjjs (Post 845796)
Derozan. It is comparing apples to oranges. Butler gets the benefit of the doubt for playing a role, any role in a playoff series.

If Derozan stays at the level he's at now, and Butler doesn't improve, Derozan is the better player. Derozan staying as a top 15 scorer in the league is better than being a tier 2 defensive stopper. The opportunity for Butler to show his offensive arsenal is right there waiting for him, Chicago is desperate for someone to step up.

My thoughts exactly. If Butler were here in Toronto I'd wager that his offense (and perhaps his defense) wouldn't look nearly as good as it has to this point. Guy only takes 8 shots/gm... how can you judge a player's offense with such a small sample size?

A lot is asked of Demar due to our lack of offensive punch. And there are precious few players in the league who are strong on both sides of the ball.

KoolAid 12-22-2013 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 845821)
My thoughts exactly. If Butler were here in Toronto I'd wager that his offense (and perhaps his defense) wouldn't look nearly as good as it has to this point. Guy only takes 8 shots/gm... how can you judge a player's offense with such a small sample size?

A lot is asked of Demar due to our lack of offensive punch. And there are precious few players in the league who are strong on both sides of the ball.

Likewise you could say if Demar wasn't on such a shitty team and had better guys around him to take away shots from him, he definitely wouldn't look as good either.

TORaptor4Ever 12-22-2013 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoolAid (Post 845836)
Likewise you could say if Demar wasn't on such a shitty team and had better guys around him to take away shots from him, he definitely wouldn't look as good either.

Not sure it works the same way... Chris Bosh has better guys around him now than he did when he was here... and although his numbers aren't the same he's still the same player. Just as good.

MBailey85 12-22-2013 08:48 PM

If Butler played in Canada they'd say DeRozan

KoolAid 12-22-2013 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 845869)
Not sure it works the same way... Chris Bosh has better guys around him now than he did when he was here... and although his numbers aren't the same he's still the same player. Just as good.

Not sure if serious...

TORaptor4Ever 12-22-2013 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoolAid (Post 845889)
Not sure if serious...

Why wouldn't I be? In fact, he's probably better than he was as a Raptor. His 3pt shot is more consistent and his defense has improved some as well.

KoolAid 12-22-2013 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 845902)
Why wouldn't I be? In fact, he's probably better than he was as a Raptor. His 3pt shot is more consistent and his defense has improved some as well.

:gay:

jeffb 12-22-2013 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 845902)
Why wouldn't I be? In fact, he's probably better than he was as a Raptor. His 3pt shot is more consistent and his defense has improved some as well.

:haha:

firecasey2013 12-22-2013 09:07 PM

is this a real thread

Claudius 12-22-2013 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 845821)
My thoughts exactly. If Butler were here in Toronto I'd wager that his offense (and perhaps his defense) wouldn't look nearly as good as it has to this point. Guy only takes 8 shots/gm... how can you judge a player's offense with such a small sample size?

By what else he does beyond shooting the ball.

It's pretty simple to me. Butler is the smarter player both offensively and defensively.

DeRozan is a more gifted scorer.

They're so different that it's not really fair to compare the two. So, on this team, DeMar is the better fit. Butler fits the Chicago mold and what they do there offensively. Personally, I take Butler simply because I really like how hard he works defensively.

TORaptor4Ever 12-22-2013 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoolAid (Post 845910)
:gay:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 845911)
:haha:

You guys honestly believe that Bosh has gotten WORSE since going to MIA?

Wow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 845920)
By what else he does beyond shooting the ball.

It's pretty simple to me. Butler is the smarter player both offensively and defensively.

DeRozan is a more gifted scorer.

They're so different that it's not really fair to compare the two. So, on this team, DeMar is the better fit. Butler fits the Chicago mold and what they do there offensively. Personally, I take Butler simply because I really like how hard he works defensively.

Fair enough. I still point to the sample size when it comes to Butler though. Bruce Bowen was a tough defender who could hit shots.... but would he excel as much as he did if he had been asked to score 20/night as well?

We'll see how things go for Butler. Maybe he'll prove me wrong.


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