Defensive Statistics
Old 05-05-2009, 02:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
Unacceptable?! Did you see the pool? They flipped the bitch!

Get off my lawn
 
Renihan_00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,330
Representing:
Default Defensive Statistics

It seems to me that basketball has a wealth of stats that can track a players effectiveness on the offensive end, the same doesn't ring true for the defensive end.

Sure they have steals, rebounds and blocks.

Steals are imo a useful stat.

Blocks- You have guys (as I've heard people accuse camby of) that play weak D off their man to be able to get the help block. So what does a block MEAN to the defense if it is costing you 10 points to block 2?

Rebounds- Rebounds are ok too.

Is there something else that can be used? Would it be possible to keep track of "successful" box-outs or how many times you were scored on 1 on 1 by your assigned man?

You would think there is something that could be used to better evaluate the defensive end!
Renihan_00 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 02:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
LX
effin' ineffable

In the Paint
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 30,071
Representing:
Default

Teams do look at deflections and how much a player needs help, and how groupings perform together. I think a lot of defense is about consistency and being able to depend on getting stops to a certain degree, and that has more to do with remaining true to a defensive philosophy that has been found to work, and not so much with statistical measurements of the individuals involved.

I thought JO was a good example of a guy that looked to get his blocks at the expense of actually improving the team's defense, but I also see no way of criticizing any of the guys inside when the perimeter was so utterly porous.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 03:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
Bmats7
is pounding the rock! (Edit)

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Representing:
Default

did you make this post because Bargnani had the worst +/- on the team and that he was almost 3 times as bad as the 2nd worst player on our team?
  Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 03:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
a Raptors fan

Free DeMar DeRozan

 
zachus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,799
Representing:
Default

Agree with your point about blocks, but the same idea holds true for steals.

A defender with his arm just simply in the passing lanes is very seldom going to steal a pass unless he takes a risk to go and grab it. This is why ball-fakes are so effective. Same goes for on-ball steals. A lot of guys with quick hands (Chalmers, Rondo, Kidd) like to let their man beat them off the dribble and turn around and poke the ball away from behind. Sure it works sometimes, but is it worth the risk?
zachus is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 03:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
BOOBS

never too old.
 
INSIDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: richmond hill
Posts: 10,804
Representing:
Default

i actually think rebounds are quite overrated for defenders.
case in point - carlos boozer... his D is atrocious, yet he grabs 10+ rebounds a game.
that doesnt make him a good defender, it makes him a good rebounder. that is all.
INSIDER is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 03:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
the next dictator of MLSE

fresh and clean
 
Windex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: uʍop ɹǝpun
Posts: 22,591
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachus22 View Post
Agree with your point about blocks, but the same idea holds true for steals.

A defender with his arm just simply in the passing lanes is very seldom going to steal a pass unless he takes a risk to go and grab it. This is why ball-fakes are so effective. Same goes for on-ball steals. A lot of guys with quick hands (Chalmers, Rondo, Kidd) like to let their man beat them off the dribble and turn around and poke the ball away from behind. Sure it works sometimes, but is it worth the risk?
yes it is b/c I do that
Windex is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 03:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
BOOBS

never too old.
 
INSIDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: richmond hill
Posts: 10,804
Representing:
Default

ever since highschool basketball, it wasnt about stats or numbers - because none of that stuff was recorded... it was about defensive stops, making sure your man didnt score and most importantly for big men: changing shots. not just blocking shots, but having the offensive player drive and have to change his shot due to you getting in his face or contesting his attempt.
theres no stat for intimidation.
INSIDER is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 04:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
is back baby

Large and in charge
 
Snooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All up in there
Posts: 8,248
Representing:
Default

Defensive Rating is the best.

"Defensive Rating" is a statistic used in basketball to measure an individual player's efficiency at preventing the other team from scoring points. It was created by author and statistician Dean Oliver.

The formula is: Defensive Rating = (Opponent's Points Allowed/ Opponent's Possessions) x 100
Snooch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 04:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
the only guy who thinks Terrence Ross will be an all-star

Senior Member
 
The MVP of West Hollywood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,237
Representing:
Default

Apparantley Cuban and the Rockets GM Daryl Morey actually have these stats and a zillion others, they just keep them to themselves.

I like team defense ratings, individual d requires the eye though
The MVP of West Hollywood is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 04:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
Unacceptable?! Did you see the pool? They flipped the bitch!

Get off my lawn
 
Renihan_00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,330
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmats7 View Post
did you make this post because Bargnani had the worst +/- on the team and that he was almost 3 times as bad as the 2nd worst player on our team?
hahaa no I made it because you always hear someone being able to score 20 points but if they are giving up 35 they are useless.

I think you can only evaluate a player by watching them but if we are going to try do it by stats IS there a way?
Renihan_00 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 04:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
a Raptors fan

Free DeMar DeRozan

 
zachus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,799
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TO2988 View Post
yes it is b/c I do that
That in-depth response definitely did my post justice. But not really.

I can conclude that if you're taking these risks, that you're not a great team defender.
zachus is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 04:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,232
Representing:
Default

there are no stats for altered shots, or lane intimidation either, just too many things u would have to keep track of
Ugo Ferst is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 06:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
the fighter of the Nightman

Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-Cherry Bomb
 
Barracuda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,728
Representing:
Default

Stats that count.

Tough to find, I like to look at a guys history, has he always won?
Barracuda is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Team positional statistics Snooch Toronto Raptors 21 01-01-2010 11:57 AM
Toronto Star: Statistics do a number on Raptors Acie Toronto Raptors 67 10-27-2009 09:41 PM
Bargnani's Statistics + Dec 15 Alvin_Williams_Rox Toronto Raptors 8 12-15-2008 12:02 PM
World statistics updated in real time lang Entertainment Lounge 3 02-08-2008 07:32 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24