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-   -   Defense? I'll say it again... (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/defense-ill-say-again-24130.html)

just4_raps 11-27-2012 09:04 PM

Defense? I'll say it again...
 
Among other factors, James Johnson was one of the biggest keys to our defensive improvement last year.

Look at this squad struggle without a guy that gives his sort of defensive hustle. And he wasn't a huge liability on the offensive end (...McGuire)

We need to find a real glue guy like him again (not named Fields). I'm not saying we need literally need James Johnson, because he's turned sour recently.

I'm saying that we need to find someone to provide what he did last year for us.

jeffb 11-27-2012 09:07 PM

How is James Johnson doing this season?

Bankiz 11-27-2012 09:10 PM

he is burn in sac town !

but i agree we miss him very much. his D and his energy was off the chart for us last year.
we really a guy whom can do that again.

Tommy C 11-27-2012 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhhnth (Post 710439)
Among other factors, James Johnson was one of the biggest keys to our defensive improvement last year.

Look at this squad struggle without a guy that gives his sort of defensive hustle. And he wasn't a huge liability on the offensive end (...McGuire)

We need to find a real glue guy like him again (not named Fields). That is all.

our D sucks.... I just started a thread while watching the 2nd Q.
Remind me what did we get for him when BC traded him? :cookie:

just4_raps 11-27-2012 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 710447)
How is James Johnson doing this season?

i have no idea. probably the worst season ever. im not saying we literally need james johnson.

im saying we need someone to bring what he provided last year.

Thug 11-27-2012 09:57 PM

What the fuck is wrong with this teams defense..like what the absolute fuck...

Isn't Dwane Casey supposed to be some sort of defensive coach? I don't see ANY defensive improvements from this team on a nightly basis.

BigMan93 11-27-2012 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thug (Post 710582)
What the fuck is wrong with this teams defense..like what the absolute fuck...

Isn't Dwane Casey supposed to be some sort of defensive coach? I don't see ANY defensive improvements from this team on a nightly basis.

Can someone tell me how Dwane Casey can actually smile in a press conference do they have some secret scheme up their sleeves or am i not seeing something because i really don't find this funny at all. Yea i guess we won with JV in the draft but still we look even worst. Also love his new gimmick about having fun lets just try to have fun while taking another loss yah.:dead:

LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! 11-27-2012 10:42 PM

Maybe Casey has been hanging out with Triano lately :reporter:

Metallikid 11-28-2012 12:48 AM

We played better defense last year because Bargnani wasn't playing. That's the magic answer, guys.

Also, how Casey and the rest of the team hasn't gotten it through their heads that they need to stop over-helping and giving up the corner three is beyond me.

pzabby 11-28-2012 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metallikid (Post 710807)
We played better defense last year because Bargnani wasn't playing. That's the magic answer, guys.

Also, how Casey and the rest of the team hasn't gotten it through their heads that they need to stop over-helping and giving up the corner three is beyond me.

absurd

Metallikid 11-28-2012 02:41 AM

Please, enlighten me. :reporter:

Dario 11-28-2012 03:05 AM

oooo. :reporter: investigation time

halphbreedballer 11-28-2012 08:00 AM

Seriously Bargnani has to be traded.
This team has been trying to build around his horrible defensive court awareness & Rebounding, in the hopes he gets better.
Well he isn't.

Who can we trade him for?

That play last night where Ed Davis got completely crowned by Patrick Patterson was completely AB fault because once again he stopped guarding his man & Davis rotated to late for help & got postered.
I WOULD BE PISSED!

carp 11-28-2012 08:11 AM

Everybody is panicking... it's gross. Relax. Teams need time to gel, to learn and trust the system. The exact same reason why teams that make a huge trade midseason often struggle. The NBA is a game where stability equates to consistency. We're so impatient it's absurd. It's not just Bargnani, others have looked horrible as well. Even your precious ones. This team needs time. One lacklustre blowout game isn't the end of the world..... chalk it up to Hardlinparsanity and regroup. Bargnani needs to come back and back up that last game and others need to step up around him. Ed Davis has really looked good these last two games too.. The rest now have to bring it.

moujik 11-28-2012 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 710447)
How is James Johnson doing this season?

Spectacular plays and effort on D, TOs on O just like he did for Toronto in the beginning.
But does come up with LeBron like plays, where he gets the defensive RB and bulldozers all the way to the other basket. Once he learned the team mates he became much less TOprone here. Now he has to do it all over. I'm really feeling for him.
JJ was amazing defending red hot Kobe

I'm glad someone else recognizes JJ's absence. and I would swap him for Bargnani in a sec.

Claudius 11-28-2012 08:36 AM

We sacrificed defence for offence. It's evident in the starting group and in the bench. The obsession to be a running team has cost this team far more dearly right now then I ever thought it would.

carp 11-28-2012 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 710846)
We sacrificed defence for offence. It's evident in the starting group and in the bench. The obsession to be a running team has cost this team far more dearly right now then I ever thought it would.

Are we really a running team anymore? The only guy getting runouts is TRoss... and that's been one game.

just4_raps 11-28-2012 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moujik (Post 710844)
I'm glad someone else recognizes JJ's absence. and I would swap him for Bargnani in a sec.

whoa whoa...i wouldn't go that far. we can get a bit more for Bargs. more like Fields for James Johnson :)

moujik 11-28-2012 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhhnth (Post 710852)
whoa whoa...i wouldn't go that far. we can get a bit more for Bargs. more like Fields for James Johnson :)

How would you like JJx3 for Fields?

carp 11-28-2012 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhhnth (Post 710852)
whoa whoa...i wouldn't go that far. we can get a bit more for Bargs. more like Fields for James Johnson :)

Fields and 3M cash for JJ.... I do it in a heartbeat. If they need Acy to chauffeur him, then by all means, throw him in too.

carp 11-28-2012 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moujik (Post 710854)
How would you like JJx3 for Fields?

JJ is twice the player Fields is. His physical presence alone makes Landry seem useless. A team so desperate for tough but still talented players deals JJ for nothing and signs Landry Fields.... makes absolutely zero sense.

moujik 11-28-2012 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 710856)
JJ is twice the player Fields is. His physical presence alone makes Landry seem useless.

He is, which makes Fields' contract 6 times worse than JJ's
But can JJ give you a candid smile the way Fields can?

Claudius 11-28-2012 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 710856)
JJ is twice the player Fields is. His physical presence alone makes Landry seem useless. A team so desperate for tough but still talented players deals JJ for nothing and signs Landry Fields.... makes absolutely zero sense.

The deal makes sense in that JJ was apparently insubordinate. Regardless of what you can and can't do on the court, if you refuse to listen or respect your coach you're gone.

Secondly, there were more than a few moments where he disappeared last year. I'm giving Fields some benefit of the doubt regarding the injury he suffered. However, they're both terrible and essentially negate each other.

carp 11-28-2012 09:22 AM

I agree on the insubordination.... it's unfortunate. We are missing his compete level at the three spot, and his defenisive intensity and toughness. You know who is a man? James Johnson is a man. That guy was able to impose his will defensively, something this team has lacked on the wings for years. Just sucks how it played out.

Landry Fields, regardless of the brutal contract and clowning tendencies, just isn't big enough, strong enough, explosive enough or tough enough for the SF spot. Colangelo's failed bid at Nash needs to be acknowledged as having led to his blatantly awful signing of this young prospect and hype of him as a glue guy. For a team that has been called soft for years, it was just a series of decisions that were detrimental to the team's progression.

Claudius 11-28-2012 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 710847)
Are we really a running team anymore? The only guy getting runouts is TRoss... and that's been one game.

I think you may have missed my point here.

When all you work on and preach and build during the offseason and training camp is to be a better running team you're moving away from what your identity was (and well was building towards), a defensive team that wouldn't blow you out offensively but would win 'ugly' and through a simple half court offence. We played to our strengths and it succeeded.

Now, all we heard and worked on was running. Get fast break points. What worked was being a half court offence. Was using (for example) Jose's strength running a half court offence where he could get back on defence relatively quickly. It was using guys like Gray in the low post when they had time to set up and playing slow, methodical basketball.

We've gotten away from that, however our personnel matches still to playing a slow style.

On top of that, because of our youth, the lessons learned last year were not reinforced because there was the assumption that they were ingrained and would be remembered. Obviously it has not been the case.

I don't see this team really turning around until mid December. That's when I think we'll see the team we saw last year. A team focused on defence and that plays defence well. The problem is, it will be far too late by that point.

carp 11-28-2012 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 710873)
I think you may have missed my point here.

When all you work on and preach and build during the offseason and training camp is to be a better running team you're moving away from what your identity was (and well was building towards), a defensive team that wouldn't blow you out offensively but would win 'ugly' and through a simple half court offence. We played to our strengths and it succeeded.

Now, all we heard and worked on was running. Get fast break points. What worked was being a half court offence. Was using (for example) Jose's strength running a half court offence where he could get back on defence relatively quickly. It was using guys like Gray in the low post when they had time to set up and playing slow, methodical basketball.

We've gotten away from that, however our personnel matches still to playing a slow style.

On top of that, because of our youth, the lessons learned last year were not reinforced because there was the assumption that they were ingrained and would be remembered. Obviously it has not been the case.

I don't see this team really turning around until mid December. That's when I think we'll see the team we saw last year. A team focused on defence and that plays defence well. The problem is, it will be far too late by that point.

I find myself in full agreement, beyond a few spelling issues. ;)

bozonic 11-28-2012 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! (Post 710710)
Maybe Casey has been hanging out with Triano lately :reporter:

cut Jay some slack...We will look back fondly at Triano's tenure whose record will be as good or better than Caseys who by the way :cookie: will be fired at the end of this season

MikeToronto 11-28-2012 12:33 PM

I too lament the departure of JJ, insubordination or not. A better, more mature and more respected coach would have found a way, I am sure, to bring him to heed, if not to heel. ;)

PJ managed to coach Rodman. If that can be done, anyone can be coached and I don't believe JJ was nearly a headcase they'd want us to see him as.

Claudius 11-28-2012 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 710911)
I find myself in full agreement, beyond a few spelling issues. ;)

:) Writing when your boss is sitting across from you will do that

FLO 11-28-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 710940)
I too lament the departure of JJ, insubordination or not. A better, more mature and more respected coach would have found a way, I am sure, to bring him to heed, if not to heel. ;)

PJ managed to coach Rodman. If that can be done, anyone can be coached and I don't believe JJ was nearly a headcase they'd want us to see him as.

At the same time, Tom Thibodeau gave up on him and he's about as respected and mature as you can get.

MikeToronto 11-28-2012 01:07 PM

He had Deng. We don't. We can't afford luxuries other teams can. :(

moujik 11-29-2012 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 710940)
I too lament the departure of JJ, insubordination or not. A better, more mature and more respected coach would have found a way, I am sure, to bring him to heed, if not to heel. ;)

PJ managed to coach Rodman. If that can be done, anyone can be coached and I don't believe JJ was nearly a headcase they'd want us to see him as.

Exactly. They could've made him call season ticket holders like they did with Julian Right or something silly like that if there was an incident. But they're not telling us, do they.
And what happens, a player plays his guts out, is our best defender, improves dramatically on his shot and decision making, and what one incident should negate that?!
Why would Demar think JJ's been our best player last season?
What could he possibly have done? Called out Casey on accountability of some players?
Fair play to him in this case.

raptor123 11-29-2012 10:53 AM

Last year we played better team defence. It was not only one player it was a group effort. Our offence was controlled and Jose was the key running the show. Defence is part of your offence....you turn the ball over on offence your d looks looks worst.....you miss shots... open shots its like a turn over and d looks worst. We should be better this year because we do actually have more talent.

You have a point guard who leads the team in rebounds right there is a big problem.Why a problem ???? I was always taught box your man out..you do it right you put yourself in position for a rebound....and you protect yourself from a lost rebound by still being with your man. Now I hate to say it but i will. We now have Kyle as much as many believe that he playing well on d hes often out of position when we lose a defencive rebound....he never boxs out and he always leaves his man on a shot.So when we lose a POSSESSION we become outnumbered because Lowry is all over the place. Why so many open looks on the perimeter...Lowry always under the basket going for rebounds !!!! Also steals ...DC himself even made the comment alot of steals is a concern because players tend to leave their position too often which in turn starts the break down on d. DC has to address this shit...the players see it, we see it....more and more players are calling it out not by pointing fingers but talking team defence.
Its not all Lowry its everyone and DC has to go back to last years film and show the guys.
I would like to see us go back Friday with Calderon, Ross, Demar, Bargs,and Gray to start. Sub in JV as 6th man early.Get in Kyle give Bargs some burn at the 3 Davis at the 4 and Amir at 4 or 5. There you go those are your guys 9 man rotation with Kleiza/Maguire on call.


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