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-   -   Defense? I'll say it again... (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/defense-ill-say-again-24130.html)

carp 11-28-2012 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moujik (Post 710854)
How would you like JJx3 for Fields?

JJ is twice the player Fields is. His physical presence alone makes Landry seem useless. A team so desperate for tough but still talented players deals JJ for nothing and signs Landry Fields.... makes absolutely zero sense.

moujik 11-28-2012 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 710856)
JJ is twice the player Fields is. His physical presence alone makes Landry seem useless.

He is, which makes Fields' contract 6 times worse than JJ's
But can JJ give you a candid smile the way Fields can?

Claudius 11-28-2012 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 710856)
JJ is twice the player Fields is. His physical presence alone makes Landry seem useless. A team so desperate for tough but still talented players deals JJ for nothing and signs Landry Fields.... makes absolutely zero sense.

The deal makes sense in that JJ was apparently insubordinate. Regardless of what you can and can't do on the court, if you refuse to listen or respect your coach you're gone.

Secondly, there were more than a few moments where he disappeared last year. I'm giving Fields some benefit of the doubt regarding the injury he suffered. However, they're both terrible and essentially negate each other.

carp 11-28-2012 09:22 AM

I agree on the insubordination.... it's unfortunate. We are missing his compete level at the three spot, and his defenisive intensity and toughness. You know who is a man? James Johnson is a man. That guy was able to impose his will defensively, something this team has lacked on the wings for years. Just sucks how it played out.

Landry Fields, regardless of the brutal contract and clowning tendencies, just isn't big enough, strong enough, explosive enough or tough enough for the SF spot. Colangelo's failed bid at Nash needs to be acknowledged as having led to his blatantly awful signing of this young prospect and hype of him as a glue guy. For a team that has been called soft for years, it was just a series of decisions that were detrimental to the team's progression.

Claudius 11-28-2012 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 710847)
Are we really a running team anymore? The only guy getting runouts is TRoss... and that's been one game.

I think you may have missed my point here.

When all you work on and preach and build during the offseason and training camp is to be a better running team you're moving away from what your identity was (and well was building towards), a defensive team that wouldn't blow you out offensively but would win 'ugly' and through a simple half court offence. We played to our strengths and it succeeded.

Now, all we heard and worked on was running. Get fast break points. What worked was being a half court offence. Was using (for example) Jose's strength running a half court offence where he could get back on defence relatively quickly. It was using guys like Gray in the low post when they had time to set up and playing slow, methodical basketball.

We've gotten away from that, however our personnel matches still to playing a slow style.

On top of that, because of our youth, the lessons learned last year were not reinforced because there was the assumption that they were ingrained and would be remembered. Obviously it has not been the case.

I don't see this team really turning around until mid December. That's when I think we'll see the team we saw last year. A team focused on defence and that plays defence well. The problem is, it will be far too late by that point.

carp 11-28-2012 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 710873)
I think you may have missed my point here.

When all you work on and preach and build during the offseason and training camp is to be a better running team you're moving away from what your identity was (and well was building towards), a defensive team that wouldn't blow you out offensively but would win 'ugly' and through a simple half court offence. We played to our strengths and it succeeded.

Now, all we heard and worked on was running. Get fast break points. What worked was being a half court offence. Was using (for example) Jose's strength running a half court offence where he could get back on defence relatively quickly. It was using guys like Gray in the low post when they had time to set up and playing slow, methodical basketball.

We've gotten away from that, however our personnel matches still to playing a slow style.

On top of that, because of our youth, the lessons learned last year were not reinforced because there was the assumption that they were ingrained and would be remembered. Obviously it has not been the case.

I don't see this team really turning around until mid December. That's when I think we'll see the team we saw last year. A team focused on defence and that plays defence well. The problem is, it will be far too late by that point.

I find myself in full agreement, beyond a few spelling issues. ;)

bozonic 11-28-2012 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! (Post 710710)
Maybe Casey has been hanging out with Triano lately :reporter:

cut Jay some slack...We will look back fondly at Triano's tenure whose record will be as good or better than Caseys who by the way :cookie: will be fired at the end of this season

MikeToronto 11-28-2012 12:33 PM

I too lament the departure of JJ, insubordination or not. A better, more mature and more respected coach would have found a way, I am sure, to bring him to heed, if not to heel. ;)

PJ managed to coach Rodman. If that can be done, anyone can be coached and I don't believe JJ was nearly a headcase they'd want us to see him as.

Claudius 11-28-2012 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 710911)
I find myself in full agreement, beyond a few spelling issues. ;)

:) Writing when your boss is sitting across from you will do that

FLO 11-28-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 710940)
I too lament the departure of JJ, insubordination or not. A better, more mature and more respected coach would have found a way, I am sure, to bring him to heed, if not to heel. ;)

PJ managed to coach Rodman. If that can be done, anyone can be coached and I don't believe JJ was nearly a headcase they'd want us to see him as.

At the same time, Tom Thibodeau gave up on him and he's about as respected and mature as you can get.

MikeToronto 11-28-2012 01:07 PM

He had Deng. We don't. We can't afford luxuries other teams can. :(

moujik 11-29-2012 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 710940)
I too lament the departure of JJ, insubordination or not. A better, more mature and more respected coach would have found a way, I am sure, to bring him to heed, if not to heel. ;)

PJ managed to coach Rodman. If that can be done, anyone can be coached and I don't believe JJ was nearly a headcase they'd want us to see him as.

Exactly. They could've made him call season ticket holders like they did with Julian Right or something silly like that if there was an incident. But they're not telling us, do they.
And what happens, a player plays his guts out, is our best defender, improves dramatically on his shot and decision making, and what one incident should negate that?!
Why would Demar think JJ's been our best player last season?
What could he possibly have done? Called out Casey on accountability of some players?
Fair play to him in this case.

raptor123 11-29-2012 10:53 AM

Last year we played better team defence. It was not only one player it was a group effort. Our offence was controlled and Jose was the key running the show. Defence is part of your offence....you turn the ball over on offence your d looks looks worst.....you miss shots... open shots its like a turn over and d looks worst. We should be better this year because we do actually have more talent.

You have a point guard who leads the team in rebounds right there is a big problem.Why a problem ???? I was always taught box your man out..you do it right you put yourself in position for a rebound....and you protect yourself from a lost rebound by still being with your man. Now I hate to say it but i will. We now have Kyle as much as many believe that he playing well on d hes often out of position when we lose a defencive rebound....he never boxs out and he always leaves his man on a shot.So when we lose a POSSESSION we become outnumbered because Lowry is all over the place. Why so many open looks on the perimeter...Lowry always under the basket going for rebounds !!!! Also steals ...DC himself even made the comment alot of steals is a concern because players tend to leave their position too often which in turn starts the break down on d. DC has to address this shit...the players see it, we see it....more and more players are calling it out not by pointing fingers but talking team defence.
Its not all Lowry its everyone and DC has to go back to last years film and show the guys.
I would like to see us go back Friday with Calderon, Ross, Demar, Bargs,and Gray to start. Sub in JV as 6th man early.Get in Kyle give Bargs some burn at the 3 Davis at the 4 and Amir at 4 or 5. There you go those are your guys 9 man rotation with Kleiza/Maguire on call.


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