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Superjudge 11-19-2008 03:58 PM

Dead man Walkin'
 
I've been pretty patient with my opinion on our current Toronto Raptor Coaching crew. I think it's only fair to do so, a coaching staff isn't hired because they are stupid. I respect Sam, and TRiano, and English, I am certain the yare all very smart men, however, from what I can tell, whatever scheme they hav ebeen using, whatever system, or ideology, it is failing. It's failing with some very decent pieces. Bosh O'Neal, Bargnani, all 7 footers that are playing well, and could, and WOULD be untilized well on any other team, at least any team in the top 1/3 of the league. Our secondary players, as forgetable as they can be, are all serviceable and fairly intelligent and the PG has been touted by almost all experts as allstar, or suballstar level. One could argue that it's been only a few games, and any team could lose a few, thats true. But how many of the losses did you personally feel were over in the first quarter?

I know I sure felt that way, and you can ask the BArracuda, she'll tell you, I called every loss. The reason is simple, this team wins when it plays amazing ball, when they hit shots at an amazing rate, when Parker is hitting 18 foot fadeaway jumpers and Moon is going 3/4 from downtown. Almost nothing comes easy on this team on offence, ever. While on the other end, they only stop teams with extrordinary efforts from individuals, there's rarly a feeling of futility for the other team.

The Horses are there now. Even the bench os ok if utilized. Toronto's coaching is a problem, and I've personally seen enough to beleive that now. I could argue last year that they hadn't the depth in the paint, well they have that now, and they also are free from a pG contrversy that was really hard to ignore. Watching Orlando add that secong pick to thier screen and roll to free Nelson up all night, and never have one adjustment to stop it was hard, watching 3 "shooters actually stand in one spot for 15 seconds while the big played post-repost on the left block is horrid, you wonder why we hate Kapono and pArker...well part of it is that they are being set up to fail. I'd be very surprised if Mitchell made it to Christmas if they don't start winning, and doing it easily. Sometimes a coach and a team need to part ways. Perhaps it's time in Toronto.

Benzo 11-19-2008 04:00 PM

Pffft....thats is so last year....just ask me and Mike.

XiaominWu 11-19-2008 04:00 PM

What's with the font? :confused2:

Superjudge 11-19-2008 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzo (Post 77200)
Pffft....thats is so last year....just ask me and Mike.

Not for me Benzo, I was willing to give a little as they were pretty shoddy in the paint, ONeal is a huge piece. The Ford - Jose thing was hard too.

But I'm not sure I can support this anymore. They look terrible, even in the wins. They look worse than they did last year.

Benzo 11-19-2008 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 77210)
Not for me Benzo, I was willing to give a little as they were pretty shoddy in the paint, ONeal is a huge piece. The Ford - Jose thing was hard too.

But I'm not sure I can support this anymore. They look terrible, even in the wins. They look worse than they did last year.

we could easily be 1-7

DVS 11-19-2008 04:07 PM

The only thing I have to say is your preaching to the choir.

I never liked Sam as a coach since his second year. When he got COY I was like "dam so they have no choice but to resign him now". Meanwhile, it was the GM tactics of Wayne and Bryan that got them so improved.

Sam has a limited offensive playbook and in terms of defense I'll blame the personnell more than the coach on that one. Our perimeter players are notoriously horrible at defense and thats a sheer fact.

At times this year you'll see the Raptors call a time out and get a shot clock violation after the first set. This should NEVER happen to an NBA team. The first thing you do after a time out is draw out a play then do your little game plan talk.

As for canning the staff. Their is really no point in doing that since Sam yas this year and next year left in his contract. As I said many times before I think he is a goner if the Raptors don't reach the 2nd round of the playoffs

LX 11-19-2008 04:09 PM

I believe there was a very similar post at about the same point in the season the year Sam won COTY.

I am not in love with everything that Sam is doing. But there are still some promising signs overall. But yeah they do need to start winning the right way by sometime around christmas or something needs to be done. I guess we can all scoop SI and say that Sam is on the HOT seat! They haven't mentioned that in a few weeks.

Superjudge 11-19-2008 04:09 PM

our defence is fine.

you guys need to look at actual attempts. Other teams are getting way more shots up to get the same point totals it seems.

I like our defence.

It's our offence thats hoorifying.

XiaominWu 11-19-2008 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 77221)
It's our offence thats hoorifying.

One thing that has plagued the Raps under Sam (and going back, under O'Neill too) is a complete inability to deal with 4th quarter intensity on offence. So many possessions without a quality shot opportunity.

Superjudge 11-19-2008 04:13 PM

For a lot of people he has for three years, I'm just saying I am now pretty much throwing the towel in.

I have always ripped bosh and he soft play, well he's playing hard as fuck now, AND has Oneal, AND has BArg's bouncing back, and a great PG and a very smart and hoest playing 2 guy, and this team is playin glike shit.

LX 11-19-2008 04:18 PM

Except the team isn't playing like shit. There are a lot of good things happening as you've listed SJ. They have a few players that are D-League quality, and they have to be relied on too much. But if they can keep their heads above water right now, they will be able to drag those guys forward more than be dragged down by them. And if that doesn't happen then a new coach can be tried, but I sure as hell don't see how much promise can be gained from that right now.

Superjudge 11-19-2008 04:24 PM

I hear ya LX, but they were losing with Jose too.

LX 11-19-2008 04:31 PM

Yeah - and there's where my biggest disappoint lies. I think we've all fallen in love with Jose a little too much. But there's just the thing - with the two good pgs the ups and downs of either one can balance out pretty nicely. Now if Jose has an off night, it pretty much spells disaster. Remember when TJ would have a few bad minutes and everyone wanted him out of town, but the team won. Ah - those were the days. I still think it's all going to be a plus eventually, but right now Jose just hasn't gotten settled into the new role and the new personality of the team.

Belsius 11-19-2008 04:45 PM

Same things are to blame on Sam and others arent.
For example, you cant blame him for what Moon is doing, he is just not listening. On the other hand you have Kapono. Im pretty sure he didnt shoot in his first 10 minutes on the floor yesterday. If you dont write plays for him just dont put him on the floor because he is a very limited player even with his improved defense.

XiaominWu 11-19-2008 05:07 PM

Yeah.... one thing I don't get is Kapono's utilization. To me, he should be the focus of the offence while he is on the floor... which should be for a limited time.

Put him out there for 15-20 minutes each game and design plays to free him up for open looks.

There is really no point in having him out there unless you are doing that. He's too much of a liability on D.

takman_777 11-19-2008 05:14 PM

that is superjudge's point exactly! Smitch is either reluctant or incapable of running or designing plays and sets to draw each players talent and utilize it! Why the hell is Jose walking the ball all the time? because Smitch can't work this team in transition consistantly and that is killing us! every team knows we don't run so they kill us off turnovers which we are offering in bushells these days. Is Jose the only guy on this team who can run the offense? then Smitch is a worse coach than we all believed. when i coached, all of my guards could run our offense and did so successfully, it really isn't that hard. Watch the good teams and you will see players emerge under good systems like Rondo did under Doc and D-Will did under the master Jerry Sloan. when these guys are out, the offense hardly misses a beat as they all know and understand their place in it. our guys are lost on offense. THAT is coaching not talent! the lakers really don't care who is on the floor as they play jackson ball! or they sit.:coffee: lots of stuff to say on this topic! coaching is killing us at this point of the season as every team knows to be patient as we will self-destruct on offense in the second half.

bjjs 11-19-2008 06:14 PM

Boston and Orlando had to give their absolute best to the Raps. There's no doubt that except for a few lapses in each game, they outplayed both those teams in terms of offensive execution, and for the most part they matched their defensive effort, they just didn't have the balls to hang on and firmly snag what could of been two very impressive road victories.

The NBA is HARD. And it's even harder at the start of the season because everybody is jacked and feeling good about themselves because their teams get to start anew.

This team has BATTLED alot and as this season wears on, you'll see them keeping up with the best in the conference, Orlando, Boston, Cleveland, and Detroit. And you'll some teams fall back down to earth, Chicago, Indi, NY, Atl and Phili.


The Raptors are right on the doorstep of becoming an elite Eastern Conference team, and unless it's the players themselves who desire a new coach, it could be suicide to switch it up on a team that is so close to having success.

I think the Raps are a tough-nosed hard-minded two guard away from Sam Mitchell being a great coach and us being a great team.

MikeToronto 11-19-2008 06:19 PM

Interesting... Hmm... Can I still call myself a prophet? ;)

TORaptor4Ever 11-19-2008 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 77197)
I've been pretty patient with my opinion on our current Toronto Raptor Coaching crew. I think it's only fair to do so, a coaching staff isn't hired because they are stupid. I respect Sam, and TRiano, and English, I am certain the yare all very smart men, however, from what I can tell, whatever scheme they hav ebeen using, whatever system, or ideology, it is failing. It's failing with some very decent pieces. Bosh O'Neal, Bargnani, all 7 footers that are playing well, and could, and WOULD be untilized well on any other team, at least any team in the top 1/3 of the league. Our secondary players, as forgetable as they can be, are all serviceable and fairly intelligent and the PG has been touted by almost all experts as allstar, or suballstar level. One could argue that it's been only a few games, and any team could lose a few, thats true. But how many of the losses did you personally feel were over in the first quarter?

I know I sure felt that way, and you can ask the BArracuda, she'll tell you, I called every loss. The reason is simple, this team wins when it plays amazing ball, when they hit shots at an amazing rate, when Parker is hitting 18 foot fadeaway jumpers and Moon is going 3/4 from downtown. Almost nothing comes easy on this team on offence, ever. While on the other end, they only stop teams with extrordinary efforts from individuals, there's rarly a feeling of futility for the other team.

The Horses are there now. Even the bench os ok if utilized. Toronto's coaching is a problem, and I've personally seen enough to beleive that now. I could argue last year that they hadn't the depth in the paint, well they have that now, and they also are free from a pG contrversy that was really hard to ignore. Watching Orlando add that secong pick to thier screen and roll to free Nelson up all night, and never have one adjustment to stop it was hard, watching 3 "shooters actually stand in one spot for 15 seconds while the big played post-repost on the left block is horrid, you wonder why we hate Kapono and pArker...well part of it is that they are being set up to fail. I'd be very surprised if Mitchell made it to Christmas if they don't start winning, and doing it easily. Sometimes a coach and a team need to part ways. Perhaps it's time in Toronto.

SJ.... dump the blonde chick.... cuz I love you right now.

Ex2k 11-19-2008 06:53 PM

I agree..

if were at .500 early to mid dec its time to throw the towel in on the coach...

Smitches has been unable to develop Bargnani. Yes the player is at fault aswell but everyones saying Bargnani has so much talent, its the coach who develops thes players and shows them how to use that talent effienctly and properly ...

Smitch is in love with the screen and roll and is his only offensive option in his playbook basically.

Smitch has been out coached 2 years in a row in the playoffs.

Smitch has been unable to get Kapono (an expensive piece) used efficiently on this team which fucking pisses me the fuck off the most... I mean come on with 3 big men, and 2 of which are always in the paint he should be getting open looks all fucking day long.

at the end of the day if the teams not winning you cant fire the players first... it's the coach that goes...in all sports.


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