Dead man Walkin' - Page 2
Old 11-19-2008, 07:12 PM   #21 (permalink)
is tired of all the Jose hating on this forum! sigh...

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I agree..

if were at .500 early to mid dec its time to throw the towel in on the coach...

Smitches has been unable to develop Bargnani. Yes the player is at fault aswell but everyones saying Bargnani has so much talent, its the coach who develops thes players and shows them how to use that talent effienctly and properly ...

Smitch is in love with the screen and roll and is his only offensive option in his playbook basically.

Smitch has been out coached 2 years in a row in the playoffs.

Smitch has been unable to get Kapono (an expensive piece) used efficiently on this team which fucking pisses me the fuck off the most... I mean come on with 3 big men, and 2 of which are always in the paint he should be getting open looks all fucking day long.

at the end of the day if the teams not winning you cant fire the players first... it's the coach that goes...in all sports.
if we are .500% at christmas, i will treat my g/f and me to a trip to TO to watch them play. this team is predictable and stagnated on offense and slow and apathetic on defense. The coach is responsible for the day to day management of the team and at this point, though teams have to play their best to beat us, that is more a compliment to the players than Smitches as he is outcoached by even first year coaches at this point, wasn't he COY at one point? geeesh....
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:13 PM   #22 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

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It's getting harder and harder to defend Sam, so im giving up, your on your own bud, gl.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:52 PM   #23 (permalink)
is.....

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hahha first game over 100pts was just on sunday, Just sad
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:45 PM   #24 (permalink)
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You're on the money SJ. Especially about being able to tell immediately after the game starts whether or not the Raptors are going to lose. I agree with everything you said so I won't repeat it.

Mitchell's defenders have cited the fact that the team is playing too horribly to win (ie Orlando game), no matter what sets Smitch runs. Thats also in part Mitchell's responsibility. Toronto has potentially 3 all-star calibur players right now, who are all very motivated to win. JO, CB4, and Jose all want championships, they play their assess off. All Mitchell has to do is motivate the rest of the scrubs to leave everything on the court. The reason they are not playing well is because Mitchell does not put them in a position to succeed tactically, and it appears his highly touted motivational ability is becoming less effective.

Forget the wing problems, the Raptors should be a 50 win team with the roster they currently have. Bargs is playing OK and JO is playing way better than anyone would have predicted (5 straight double-doubles this early in the season). We need a coach who will use the Raptors strengths and hide their weaknesses. Mitchell gets outcoached night in and night out.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:06 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Especially about being able to tell immediately after the game starts whether or not the Raptors are going to lose.
Despite having a 17 point lead against Boston and playing flawlessly for three quarters, and having a 10 point lead against Orlando in the second quarter, both on the road, both against teams who were giving their best to stay ahead of us?

Your perspectives don't match up with reality.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:20 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I was watching the Spurs at the Clips early in the week. They had for long stretches a team on the floor with hill, mason, ahearn, finley and duncan. Duncan was in the post, and all the other 4 players were on the perimeter. Some of their shots were either low posts by TD, but most of the time TD was initiating in the post, pushing his man a little, attracting the double, and the immediately passing on the perimeter, where they were swinging quickly until somebody was open. Very simple offense and they were winning with a team that had no business in even being close (the opposition was featuring baron, kaman, camby, thornthon and mobley - basically vastly superior at all positions but center). We have incomparable superior talent, with TWO great post players and 2-3 outstanding 3pt shooters. And yet, we were one of the worst teams in the nba in 3pt shooting until last night. Mind boggling how that happens.

We have no idea how to utilize our 3pt shooters. There are two ways of getting open 3pt shots, either quick penetration, or attracting double teams in the post. I agree that we have no one to provide penetration anymore, but on the other hand we have 2 players who should attract double teams. But watch really close, when O'Neal and Bosh are isolated in the post, all of our players move on the other side of the court, so O'Neal has no one to pass the ball even if he wants to, so he has to force through the double team. San Antonio on the other hand, everytime Duncan is in the post, the shooters will be equally spaced, one in each corner and two at the top, so everywhere he turns, Duncan has an option. Sometimes he will pass on his side, sometimes he will throw across the paint, almost always making the right pass.

We force the post play just for the sake of it - when common sense tells you that the best shot in basketball is the open 3pt shot from a specialist like Kapono or parker. If open, kapono can easily make 60% of 3pt shots, and 60% from 3 is the equivalent of shooting 90% from 2, which is basically impossible, regardless of how good a post player you are. So smart coaches understand that playing in the post is just the bait, the real goal is to shoot as many open 3s as possible.

Another thing is kapono - why on Earth is he driving? Again, going back to the simple math, if he shoots contested 3pt shots at a 33% clip (I would guess he'd be higher than that), that's the equivalent of 50% from the 2s. Obviously, his driving skills are not even close to good enough to get to that percentage. Therefore he should almost always choose to take a contested 3pt shot over driving, even not taking into account the high amount of TOs (and easy transition points) he causes when he does that ...

And our defense is not good at all, considering the presence in the paint of JO and Bosh (and bargnani). We are able to basically annihilate the opposing front court without breaking a sweat, so all we should concentrate is stopping the back court. I understand that our backcourt defenders are not very good, but even so - is there really no way we can compensate for that? If that's the answer, than what good is a coach, if there's nothing he can do to overcome individual limitations?
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Despite having a 17 point lead against Boston and playing flawlessly for three quarters, and having a 10 point lead against Orlando in the second quarter, both on the road, both against teams who were giving their best to stay ahead of us?

Your perspectives don't match up with reality.
ask Barracuda what I said when we were up 17 against Boston.

It was very much me saying we were gonna lose if we didn't start earning some easier baskets. I also pointed out how Pierce was quietly working his game towards a bigger 4th. I had no idea it wold be that big, but i could tell he was probing, he turned down a few really easy hoops to run the offence, tell tale sign a team has no fear of your ability to finish.

anyhow, whatevs.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:25 PM   #28 (permalink)
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ask Barracuda what I said when we were up 17 against Boston.
It was very much me saying we were gonna lose if we didn't start earning some easier baskets. I also pointed out how Pierce was quietly working his game towards a bigger 4th. I had no idea it wold be that big, but i could tell he was probing, he turned down a few really easy hoops to run the offence, tell tale sign a team has no fear of your ability to finish.

anyhow, whatevs.
He said "Dammit woman! Get me a beer... and make me a steak! Now!"

To which I replied, "Sorry dude, the Raps are up by 17. I ain't movin'."

Is that what you meant, SJ?
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:39 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You're on the money SJ. Especially about being able to tell immediately after the game starts whether or not the Raptors are going to lose. I agree with everything you said so I won't repeat it.

Mitchell's defenders have cited the fact that the team is playing too horribly to win (ie Orlando game), no matter what sets Smitch runs. Thats also in part Mitchell's responsibility. Toronto has potentially 3 all-star calibur players right now, who are all very motivated to win. JO, CB4, and Jose all want championships, they play their assess off. All Mitchell has to do is motivate the rest of the scrubs to leave everything on the court. The reason they are not playing well is because Mitchell does not put them in a position to succeed tactically, and it appears his highly touted motivational ability is becoming less effective.

Forget the wing problems, the Raptors should be a 50 win team with the roster they currently have. Bargs is playing OK and JO is playing way better than anyone would have predicted (5 straight double-doubles this early in the season). We need a coach who will use the Raptors strengths and hide their weaknesses. Mitchell gets outcoached night in and night out.
Paul is better at defense, passing and shooting compared to Calderon and Bosh is not a dominating player compared to LeBron, Kobe and D Wade. They need a wing scorer. O'Neal is not an all star. Its not all Mitchell's fault.
Yes we have 3 potential all stars but there is a huge drop after that. I'm not saying Mitchell is great but just on player talent alone we are worse than the Celtics, Pistons, Cavs and Magic and maybe even Philly and Atlanta.
So Mitchell is average he doesn't bring anything special to take the team over the top and he doesn't take away from the team
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:40 PM   #30 (permalink)
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ask Barracuda what I said when we were up 17 against Boston.

It was very much me saying we were gonna lose if we didn't start earning some easier baskets. I also pointed out how Pierce was quietly working his game towards a bigger 4th. I had no idea it wold be that big, but i could tell he was probing, he turned down a few really easy hoops to run the offence, tell tale sign a team has no fear of your ability to finish.

anyhow, whatevs.
I had my doubts the entire game as well SJ, even up 17, but only because of this team's history of playing fantastic basketball and being extremely well prepared against the NBA's best, only to crumble in second half. Im sure you remember the momentus collapse in Dallas a few years ago when Dallas came back from 20 down. It happens time and time again. Kobe's 82 is another example. It's a personality thing we have to overcome. Teams who know the Raps are on their heels and need to keep us down, make it a war, and they beat us up, they dictate the way officials call the game, and we shy away from grabbing those wins.

But that has nothing to do with being able to tell from our play at the start of games that we're going to lose. Because our play at the start of both of those losses was dominant, and we showed signs of a team that was extremely prepared.

And as long as we're coached well enough to keep making Orlando and Boston go to war with us, which we are, sooner or later, we're going to start out-fighting them for those wins. Then you'll see that great preparation by the coaching staff not get wasted.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:42 PM   #31 (permalink)
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He said "Dammit woman! Get me a beer... and make me a steak! Now!"

To which I replied, "Sorry dude, the Raps are up by 17. I ain't movin'."

Is that what you meant, SJ?
My girlfriend falls asleep 2minutes into every game. Thank god she doesn't snore.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:19 PM   #32 (permalink)
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But watch really close, when O'Neal and Bosh are isolated in the post, all of our players move on the other side of the court, so O'Neal has no one to pass the ball even if he wants to, so he has to force through the double team. San Antonio on the other hand, everytime Duncan is in the post, the shooters will be equally spaced, one in each corner and two at the top, so everywhere he turns, Duncan has an option. Sometimes he will pass on his side, sometimes he will throw across the paint, almost always making the right pass.
ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY. Bravo.

Edit: the entire post was one of the most well-rounded lately on this forum. Very well done.

Last edited by MikeToronto; 11-20-2008 at 02:23 PM. Reason: More things to add...
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:21 PM   #33 (permalink)
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He said "Dammit woman! Get me a beer... and make me a steak! Now!"

To which I replied, "Sorry dude, the Raps are up by 17. I ain't movin'."

Is that what you meant, SJ?
So if the Raps were up by 2 or losing you would'a done it?

I'll take those odds.

Do you have a sister?
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:27 PM   #34 (permalink)
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And as long as we're coached well enough to keep making Orlando and Boston go to war with us, which we are, sooner or later, we're going to start out-fighting them for those wins. Then you'll see that great preparation by the coaching staff not get wasted.
Now THAT's what I call "unbridled optimism". lol.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:30 PM   #35 (permalink)
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So if the Raps were up by 2 or losing you would'a done it?

I'll take those odds.

Do you have a sister?
If he was watching the Leafs, I woulda done it

And yes, I DO have a sister.

But you'd better act fast cuz she's getting marrie don Saturday.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:33 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I understand that our backcourt defenders are not very good, but even so - is there really no way we can compensate for that? If that's the answer, than what good is a coach, if there's nothing he can do to overcome individual limitations?
First off... excellent post my man.

I highlighted this last section because it speaks to my feelings EXACTLY as it relates to this team over the past 5 years.

Enough with the "our players aren't good enough" excuses. I'm tired of it. There are coaches who have done more with less and it's time that we start DEMANDING some proper utilization of the roster.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:35 PM   #37 (permalink)
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If he was watching the Leafs, I woulda done it

And yes, I DO have a sister.

But you'd better act fast cuz she's getting married on Saturday.
Well just break my heart whydontcha.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:38 PM   #38 (permalink)
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TO, I do declare SJ's got the better sister...

http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/album....4&pictureid=22
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:39 PM   #39 (permalink)
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TO, I do declare SJ's got the better sister...

http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/album....4&pictureid=22
That's a little insulting don't you think Mike?
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:40 PM   #40 (permalink)
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That's a little insulting don't you think Mike?
?Why?

Just because I consider Barracuda prettier than her sister?
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