Davis/Valanciunas frontcourt

jeffb · 12-18-2012, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Ed Davis–Jonas Valanciunas, Toronto Raptors

Your new starting Toronto frontcourt, though Dwane Casey has seldom trusted either to finish close games. These guys are skinny, active, long, fast, and inexperienced; and they produce the kind of interior defense you'd expect when you mix all those ingredients. Valanciunas is prone to overhelping, and his hyperactivity can get him out of balance now and then against skilled post brutes. The Raptors are giving up points at a league-average rate when these two play, an improvement from their bottom-five overall mark, per NBA.com.

The questions come on the other side, where Toronto's offense has fallen off a cliff; the Raps have scored just 93.3 points per 100 possessions in Valanciunas-Davis time, right around Washington's league-worst mark. (My god, has Washington's offense been horrid.)

Davis and Valanciunas are not jump-shooters, and the lane can get very cramped when they play together — a problem that wouldn't be quite as serious if Toronto's perimeter players were healthy. Casey has tried to manufacture that spacing by having them set up as opposite elbows, with one working as the hub of the offense — as screener or passer — while the other works with a shooter on the weak side. This marks a huge expansion in duties for each guy, and Davis has shown more aggression sliding into post position on the left block as Valanciunas rolls down the right side on a pick-and-roll;1 Davis has a nice turnaround lefty hook, and though the results have been uneven, he's on a roll right now and has already taken half as many post-up shots as he attempted all of last season, per Synergy Sports. He's in the top-30 overall in PER and taking a more active part in Toronto's offense.

All good signs, even if both Davis and Valanciunas need to work on avoiding near-collisions in the paint.

Tim Duncan-Tiago Splitter, Greg Monroe-Andre Drummond, and more NBA frontcourt odd couples - Grantland

Raptors1995 · 12-18-2012, 01:37 PM

Ed Davis' value should come up with the extended minutes. He's playing really well.

carp · 12-18-2012, 01:40 PM

Next season, JV and Millsap!

wchoi213 · 12-18-2012, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp

Next season, JV and Millsap!

JV and Millsap would be a great combination. However, we need to clean up our PF rosters first.

We already got Barg, ED, Amir, and Acy. We definitely need to cut Barg and Amir before Millsap acquisition.

carp · 12-18-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wchoi213

JV and Millsap would be a great combination. However, we need to clean up our PF rosters first.

We already got Barg, ED, Amir, and Acy. We definitely need to cut Barg and Amir before Millsap acquisition.

agreed... not cut, but get value for. Acy is never going to be a player.

@BaileysBlitz · 12-18-2012, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wchoi213

JV and Millsap would be a great combination. However, we need to clean up our PF rosters first.

We already got Barg, ED, Amir, and Acy. We definitely need to cut Barg and Amir before Millsap acquisition.

Acy is a Longshot and shouldn't really be considered but Bargs could be moved for Millsap which would solve one option. Amir battles and doesn't need to be moved. Davis may be a good trade piece addition. The SF spot is the biggest concern,let's not steer the focus away from it.

Kidd · 12-18-2012, 01:53 PM

Good article - JV and Ed don't necessarily match up as a power big man duo, but if they're given time to figure it out, they could both be quality starters for this organization for many years.

Why add more PFs?

Davis and Amir both could be starters in Casey's system

We need a SF, we need players to build around our young prospects (DD, Ross, Davis, Lowry, JV), a veteran leadership presence, or draft picks to continue building this team.

@BaileysBlitz · 12-18-2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd

Why add more PFs?

Davis and Amir both could be starters in Casey's system

We need a SF, we need players to build around our young prospects (DD, Ross, Davis, Lowry, JV), a veteran leadership presence, or draft picks to continue building this team.

This!

carp · 12-18-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @BaileysBlitz

Acy is a Longshot and shouldn't really be considered but Bargs could be moved for Millsap which would solve one option. Amir battles and doesn't need to be moved. Davis may be a good trade piece addition. The SF spot is the biggest concern,let's not steer the focus away from it.

We're maxing out Omri this offseason.

JoeyJoJo Shabbadu · 12-18-2012, 05:28 PM

So we start JV and Ed and we win 2 games, so its a bad idea. They don't match up. Makes perfect sense.

12-18-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp

agreed... not cut, but get value for. Acy is never going to be a player.

I agree, Acy is like a skinny Evans...so useless.

Dario · 12-18-2012, 05:37 PM

Acy will bulk up, trust me. and once JV gets that jumpshot going,(which he already does, just needs to recognize when to shoot it) his game is going to revolutionize

rockthetdot · 12-18-2012, 05:41 PM

Lots of hate for Acy here, why? the guy has barely played.

Carlito · 12-18-2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockthetdot

Lots of hate for Acy here, why? the guy has barely played.

Agree... No reason to have a hate on for Acy... His current game is very limited... Will be a long process for him to deserve being a serviceable bench player

pzabby · 12-18-2012, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dario

Acy will bulk up, trust me. and once JV gets that jumpshot going,(which he already does, just needs to recognize when to shoot it) his game is going to revolutionize

nice word

EggsToTheBBQ · 12-19-2012, 09:56 AM

Davis is showing signs of being a very good passer - when he gets the ball further out from the rim he's not a complete waste on offense, even though he doesn't have great range.

Also, Valanciunas looks like his range will be much better when he gets his legs under him.

Long term I think this is a good pairing, even if they're a little limited at the moment.

EggsToTheBBQ · 12-19-2012, 10:13 AM

Also, don't be surprised to see Ed Davis starting hitting 15 footers with consistency in the next year or so.

His free throw shooting has improved every year, and this year he's at 74%.

That's a really good sign that he'll come around as a shooter.

carp · 12-19-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EggsToTheBBQ

Davis is showing signs of being a very good passer - when he gets the ball further out from the rim he's not a complete waste on offense, even though he doesn't have great range.

Also, Valanciunas looks like his range will be much better when he gets his legs under him.

Long term I think this is a good pairing, even if they're a little limited at the moment.

I'm starting to agree, long term... both need to get stronger, Ed needs more size too. Defensively they get bullied a lot. Offensively, I think they're only going to get better. The down low synergy is impressive.

I think the thing that is so disappointing this year in terms of our frontcourt is how over-reliant Casey has been on the spacing idea. He's used AB primarily as a floor spacer/long distance iso/decoy and it's really taken away his effectiveness. AB on the block or down low, on defense too, would really add to his game. When he returns, I really hope Casey integrates AB into the 'new' system, off the bench, and rather than trying to devise a perimeter iso offense centered around Lowry, AB and DD like early in the season. Jose's scoring has really increased and that adds another dimension which takes the pressure off Ed, Amir and JV... and should off AB as well. I think there could be a really good 4 big man rotation here if Casey doesn't overthink his pieces like he seems to have done.

Also, Amir in the 4-smalls rotation has been terrific. He's more defensively sound than Ed at this stage and he's got more size and strength. Props to Amir.

torontomen · 12-19-2012, 05:04 PM

i'm trying to find some stats from other web site which still not available, but i really happy to see lots of good thing from this pairing...Defense,offense,ball movement,especially when ED plays inside-out it open so many space for our outside shooters which we are not seeing in prior last 4 games.

i have to admit that the defense still need improve from both of them but the potential is there.

Tomas · 12-19-2012, 05:09 PM

There is thread named almost exactly the same just few lines bellow, so why not use it instead of making new one?

12-18-2012, 01:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
Kidd is a Professional Troller, Lackluster Poster Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 91 Representing:	Good article - JV and Ed don't necessarily match up as a power big man duo, but if they're given time to figure it out, they could both be quality starters for this organization for many years. Why add more PFs? Davis and Amir both could be starters in Casey's system We need a SF, we need players to build around our young prospects (DD, Ross, Davis, Lowry, JV), a veteran leadership presence, or draft picks to continue building this team. Last edited by Kidd; 12-18-2012 at 01:55 PM.

12-19-2012, 05:04 PM	#19 (permalink)
torontomen is pounding the rock! Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 95 Representing:	ED and VAL is the best Raptor Front court in last 7 years i'm trying to find some stats from other web site which still not available, but i really happy to see lots of good thing from this pairing...Defense,offense,ball movement,especially when ED plays inside-out it open so many space for our outside shooters which we are not seeing in prior last 4 games. i have to admit that the defense still need improve from both of them but the potential is there.

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12-18-2012, 01:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Raptors1995 is it's time to empty the trash Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,025 Representing:	Ed Davis' value should come up with the extended minutes. He's playing really well.

12-18-2012, 01:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
carp is the rebirth of thick Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 10,626 Representing:	Next season, JV and Millsap!

12-18-2012, 05:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is payin Dwyane Wade Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,542 Representing:	So we start JV and Ed and we win 2 games, so its a bad idea. They don't match up. Makes perfect sense.

12-18-2012, 05:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
Dario is Life as a raptors fan... Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 5,936 Representing:	Acy will bulk up, trust me. and once JV gets that jumpshot going,(which he already does, just needs to recognize when to shoot it) his game is going to revolutionize

12-18-2012, 05:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
rockthetdot is rollin on stilts, wearin a kilt. Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 796 Representing:	Lots of hate for Acy here, why? the guy has barely played.

12-19-2012, 09:56 AM	#16 (permalink)
EggsToTheBBQ is useless Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,132 Representing:	Davis is showing signs of being a very good passer - when he gets the ball further out from the rim he's not a complete waste on offense, even though he doesn't have great range. Also, Valanciunas looks like his range will be much better when he gets his legs under him. Long term I think this is a good pairing, even if they're a little limited at the moment.

12-19-2012, 10:13 AM	#17 (permalink)
EggsToTheBBQ is useless Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,132 Representing:	Also, don't be surprised to see Ed Davis starting hitting 15 footers with consistency in the next year or so. His free throw shooting has improved every year, and this year he's at 74%. That's a really good sign that he'll come around as a shooter.

12-19-2012, 05:09 PM	#20 (permalink)
Tomas is counting sheeps Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 185 Representing:	There is thread named almost exactly the same just few lines bellow, so why not use it instead of making new one?