Dave Feschuk:Colangelo is no elite executive! - Page 2
Old 06-28-2008, 02:30 AM   #21 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

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hahahaahaa

You guys are funny shit.

For real.
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Old 06-28-2008, 02:31 AM   #22 (permalink)
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To be honest, I think he's done a lot of good. I like his small moves the best, picking up Parker, Garbo, Rasho, etc. really helped turn the mentality of this team around. It wasn't just the players we picked up, it is the kind. We went from having asshole chuckers like James and lazy guys like Villaneuva, to a team full of hard work and chemistry.

But everything he's done good, is counterbalanced by picking Bargnani. Even if he turned out, it just wasn't the right move, he was clearly way too much of an offense-only player to play the C beside Bosh. Both those guys could thrive as PFs next to a defensive C, but not together. Even if Bosh and Dirk were somehow paired together today, I think they'd be too soft inside to go all the way. He should've seen that. That was a clear misstep and if we don't win a title in the Bosh era while Portland wins multiple times, the Bargnani pick is what'll get the blame, and rightfully so. We should've gone with the best player available (Alderidge at the time) and then traded down to get one of the wing guys + whatever asset they'd throw in. Or just chosen one of the wing guys, they were all so close anyways.

So I'd rate him somewhere in the middle.

Last edited by The MVP of West Hollywood; 06-28-2008 at 02:36 AM.
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Old 06-28-2008, 02:35 AM   #23 (permalink)
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The team became a mess when Glen Grunwald signed Vince Carter and all of his buddies to big, long contracts.

Rob Babacock was handed a mess, Colangelo was not.

He had AD's 14 million and James 3.5 coming off of the books. Enough for him to sign Fred Jones.


And if you knew how to read, I said that at the time the jury was still out on Graham meaning he may still become a player.

And the two moves you bring up were someone else's. Something he's freely and openly admitted.

I'm not saying he hasn't done a good job, but he certainly had a lot of good thing fall into his lap when he came here, which he himself said was part of made the job so attractive to him.
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Old 06-28-2008, 02:38 AM   #24 (permalink)
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pretty much all Feschuk said too, but these Jackals get thier back up ANYTIME you say something even remotely non "rah rah" about the Dino's or thier precious GM.

I like Colangelo, but no, he is not anywhere near perfect.
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Old 06-28-2008, 02:43 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
pretty much all Feschuk said too, but these Jackals get thier back up ANYTIME you say something even remotely non "rah rah" about the Dino's or thier precious GM.

I like Colangelo, but no, he is not anywhere near perfect.
Nobody is! But as far as GM's go he is one of (if not the best) in the NBA IMO!
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Old 06-28-2008, 02:45 AM   #26 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

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Yep.

And Fschuks Job, whether you like to admit it or not, is to get you to read, and get you to feel.

it ain't to blow sunshine up Colangelo's ass.

It's called media.

It's what they do.
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:09 AM   #27 (permalink)
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hate to say it guys, but the dude does make some sense...
Colangelo did pan out on the whole Euro run and shoot shit and yes he turned our team around but we went from 47 wins to 41 after spending a full MLE on Kapono.
Yes we had a fair share of injuries, but the teams momentum carried them through it last season and this season everythings just regressed, from ABs progress all the way to BCs progress. Now what he aquires jermaine oneal thinking j.o can actually do something? Just making us fans wait an extra season for something to get done.
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Old 06-28-2008, 01:26 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I like Colangelo, but no, he is not anywhere near perfect.
Perfect? Nobody is perfect. Feschuk said that he is nothing more than average ... I think BC is a top 5 GM overal, and the job he did here in TO was unbelievable.

Let's analyze his past 2 years:

First year

1. trade away stiffs like araujo, bonner, 2 x williams for draft picks and two serviceable bigs (rasho and hump)
2. let MJ go (I remember there were some questioning that move back then)
3. Trade TJ for CV (another highly controversial move that panned out, TJ has a lot more value than CV today)
4. Sign free agents: Parker, Garbajosa, Salmons - all three have been very good signings. It's not BC's fault that Salmons had a holy vision, so he had to quickly replace him with somebody else (Dixon). Salmons went to California where he had a fantastic year in 2008.
5. Resign Bosh - no comments here
6. Draft AB and Tucker. At the time, the top big prospects were AB and Aldridge with Morrison and Gay slightly behind. Aldridge was a more proven guy, but he was pretty much Bosh v.2. Bargnani was a perfect fit for us, a center with shooting skills to open the floor for Bosh. At the time, everybody was saying that AB is a long term project, but we had time since we were lousy anyway.
7. Gave Mitchell a chance to finish his contract

I'm pretty sure that Bryan didn't expect us to be any good overnight, so he was probably counting on having more lottery picks in the coming seasons.

Second Year

1. Free agency
After a great season and the loss to NJ, it was obvious that we need a consistent 3pt shooting threat. AP, Mo Pete and Calderon were all good shooters, but not consistent. Another obvious need was at SF. Based on the free agent market that summer, the two best choices were Kapono and Pietrus. Kapono was the best shooter in the league, Pietrus's skillset is more replicable. Bryan choose to overpay Jason (by 1 million or so), just to make sure we get him. I have no problem with that.

2. Draft
Since we had no first round pick (another inheritance from previous years), we didn't have a chance to add cheap players to the roster, so Bryan went on and signed J. Moon which turned out to be a great asset.

3. Gave a long term contract to Sam Mitchell. Not sure if this will turn out to be a good move, the jury is still out there. I think next season will be the deciding one.

Third year

1. Trading for O'Neal - we'll see how it works out.

Also, in the past 2 seasons, we:
- got a division banner
- equaled the best record in franchise history
- never had a sub .500 season, despite bad luck with injuries
- won the exec of the year
- won the coach of the year.
- made the playoffs every year

Also, attendance at the games is much improved. I can't comment about the business side, I don't know how we're doing on that front. But from outside, we seem to be doing pretty good.
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:09 PM   #29 (permalink)
kicking himself for being so emotionally invested in the Roller-coaster Raptors

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Bosh, Jose (was clearly going to be a player if you'd seen him play overseas), Charlie V and Joey Graham (the jury was still out on him at that point) is good, young talent.

And actually they didn't suck major ass. After starting the season 1-15 they actually played some decent ball until shutting down Bosh towards the end of the season and going into tank mode.
Give me a break man, Colangelo didn't have the power of hindsight when making his moves.

'Jose was going to be a player' if you saw him overseas? Is that a joke!? How many players rock the world in Europe only to not make it in the NBA. Bargnani was tearing it up overseas too!

The problem of what you're saying IMO is that you're describing the team as a fan. Discounting the 1-15 start and the shitty finish and only focusing on the good part of the season omits the fact that, like it or not, it's an 82 game season and we were a pretty mediocre team. We had long term contracts around our necks (Alvin Williams was still on the books, for example!!!!).
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:16 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Give me a break man, Colangelo didn't have the power of hindsight when making his moves.

'Jose was going to be a player' if you saw him overseas? Is that a joke!? How many players rock the world in Europe only to not make it in the NBA. Bargnani was tearing it up overseas too!

The problem of what you're saying IMO is that you're describing the team as a fan. Discounting the 1-15 start and the shitty finish and only focusing on the good part of the season omits the fact that, like it or not, it's an 82 game season and we were a pretty mediocre team. We had long term contracts around our necks (Alvin Williams was still on the books, for example!!!!).

I watched Jose play about ten games for Tau Ceramica and I watched watched him play several games for the Spanish team before he was an NBA player. I'm not talking about tearing it up or statistics. He was exceedingly good at managing the team, setting up the offense, getting everyone involved and making big plays when he had to. He displayed all of the attributes neccessary to succesfully run a basketball team at any level . Not skills, but very good point guard instincts. He did those same things when he got to Toronto, but he unfortunately got hurt and lost his confidence halfway through his rookie season.

Bargs did not tear it up overseas. He had a couple of good playoff games his last season there.

Record aside, the 05-06 team played harder than the teams of the last two seasons. They didn't take any nights off, but they didn't have the savy or experience of a veteran team to close out close games.
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:05 AM   #31 (permalink)
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BC has done some really good things here, i like the way we are headed. I am not one of the ppl that thinks he is a basketball God of GMs like some Toronto fans do tho, but we are headed the right way.

He has no rings, learned alot of Daddy and had Steve Nash fall in his lap in Phx when he wasnt even after him (a nice thing to happen). Doesnt mean i think he is crap because he sure has righted this ship.

I think Bargs is (so far), a big waste of a number 1 pick, potential or not, and if he doesnt improve this year and BC wont admit his mistake by trading or doing something drastic to him, i will lose respect for BC.

JO has been in decline the last few years mostly to injuries, but 70% of his shots are jumpers and he has hit about 36% of them over the last 4 or 5 years, which is scary bad, aswell as his turnovers. Now theres no reason he cant be like Baron Davis and come back strong to allstar type status after a couple rough injury years, i really hope this is the case. If JO doesnt work out, a ton of the lustre on the BC is a basketball Guru movement will be lost imo, altho the huge cap space he will give us in a couple years for the LeBron (yea, right)/Wade sweepstakes could work itself out anyways.

Lastly, im happy to contribute my opinions on the board, first basketball related post for me
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Old 06-29-2008, 11:09 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Lastly, im happy to contribute my opinions on the board, first basketball related post for me
Great start to the forums too Ugo!!!
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Old 06-29-2008, 12:58 PM   #33 (permalink)
against a rebuild

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BC is a joke. Mind you, Babcock was much worse but BC is still a joke.
if bc is a joke, then according to u who isnt
God himself?
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Old 06-29-2008, 01:00 PM   #34 (permalink)
against a rebuild

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A joke?WTF are you smoking? Two years ago we were the Joke in the league and he turned us around and we won a division and two straight playoff appearances and we are looked upon as possible eastern conference contenders by some NBA insiders.To have them say this about the "Canadian" team is huge.We've gotten respectability back and it's mostly because of Colangela and the pieces he added after taking over.We are respected and big name players are more inclined to come here because of the perception.And players traded here (ie: O'neil) look forward to coming here.Mostly due to BC at the atmosphere he's created in T.O!!
yea 2 years ago u would say raptors, and the other person would say 81 points
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Old 06-29-2008, 01:18 PM   #35 (permalink)
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lol
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Old 06-29-2008, 02:15 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I think Bargs is (so far), a big waste of a number 1 pick, potential or not, and if he doesnt improve this year and BC wont admit his mistake by trading or doing something drastic to him, i will lose respect for BC.
I don't think it will happen, but if it does, I'm 100% Bryan will pull the cord without any hesitation. All through his career he made of himself as somebody that is not afraid to admit to past mistakes.
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Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst View Post
JO has been in decline the last few years mostly to injuries, but 70% of his shots are jumpers and he has hit about 36% of them over the last 4 or 5 years, which is scary bad, aswell as his turnovers. Now theres no reason he cant be like Baron Davis and come back strong to allstar type status after a couple rough injury years, i really hope this is the case.
I think the main reason we went after O'Neal is not offense, but defense. The guy is a top shot-blocker, rebounder and interior defender in the league - his offense is the cherry on the cake. Not to mention that JO will not be the primary offensive weapon anymore, so his life will me much easier since Bosh will draw the most attention on offense.
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