D. Smith: Trading #8 a very real possibility if they get a later pick in return - Page 4

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Old 06-21-2012, 01:35 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Apparently your ability to debate is rivaled only by your ability to read. You made your own definitions of what constitutes roles on a playoff team. I didn't dispute that those are roles, just that they're not the only ones. Then, I disputed the fact that Derozan wouldn't have a role as again, he could literally never get on the court and have a role. It's an issue of semantics that I should drop, but I assumed you would admit you were unarguably wrong on that aspect.
I was just outlining the main skills/roles that players have on teams. I thought that was obvious. And DD doesn't really fit a role or have any of those skills. He is still raw.

Also, pzabby - you don't care that your starting PF who plays upwards of 30 mpg can only average 5 boards/game? It's disgraceful for a big to do that. As Danh has outlined, defensive boards we have no issue. but offensive boards we're at a disadvantage. And we're probably going to trade our best rebounder.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:38 PM   #62 (permalink)
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We were the third best defensive rebounding team in the league this year. So that might be what you are looking at. But we were also the 22nd best offensive rebounding team - which had a lot to do with the system, but could definitely be improved on.
defensive rebounding is more important though, for one, there's a larger volume of defensive rebounds to be had. Second, offensive rebounding comes with risks, sending more people to the boards creates more opportunities for transition scoring, it's not a straight-up benefit.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:48 PM   #63 (permalink)
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I was just outlining the main skills/roles that players have on teams. I thought that was obvious. And DD doesn't really fit a role or have any of those skills. He is still raw.

Also, pzabby - you don't care that your starting PF who plays upwards of 30 mpg can only average 5 boards/game? It's disgraceful for a big to do that. As Danh has outlined, defensive boards we have no issue. but offensive boards we're at a disadvantage. And we're probably going to trade our best rebounder.
I'm more concerned that having a big that draws their interior players out still doesn't allow our athletci wing to grab more rebounds. That's embarrassing for an athletic 2 guard.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:01 PM   #64 (permalink)
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defensive rebounding is more important though, for one, there's a larger volume of defensive rebounds to be had. Second, offensive rebounding comes with risks, sending more people to the boards creates more opportunities for transition scoring, it's not a straight-up benefit.
Absolutely, the offensive rebounding is a system decision thing - and actually, defensive rebounding can be as well - it depends on the effectiveness of forcing difficult shots without over-helping, and the propensity to leak out on the fast break. Last year, with pretty much the same club, the Raps were 8th in offensive rebounding and 25th in defensive rebounding. Quite a difference, huh?

Not all that surprising, since last year's club leaked out on the fast break to no end and crashed the boards to the detriment of getting back, pretty much the opposite of this year's team.

The point still stands - either way, this team is pretty average overall when it comes to rebounding, even with Bargnani playing a large role in the frontcourt. His rebounding issues are there, but their impact is way overblown. For example, this past year his impact was about a 2.5% decrease in total rebound percentage for his team (off and def impacts were almost identical) when he was on the court versus off. The team on the year was outrebounded by almost 1.5 rebounds per game. So, if we assume that instead of playing 33 minutes per game with Bargnani's impact and 15 without it, the team plays without it the entire time, that gives the Raptors a full 1.25 more possessions per game. Now, one possession is worth approximately 1 point in today's NBA, so the entire impact of Bargnani's rebounding (versus his backups, very good rebounders such as Amir Johnson and Ed Davis) is about a point per game.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:06 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I was just outlining the main skills/roles that players have on teams. I thought that was obvious. And DD doesn't really fit a role or have any of those skills. He is still raw.

Also, pzabby - you don't care that your starting PF who plays upwards of 30 mpg can only average 5 boards/game? It's disgraceful for a big to do that. As Danh has outlined, defensive boards we have no issue. but offensive boards we're at a disadvantage. And we're probably going to trade our best rebounder.
We're trading Solomon Alabi? Oh, wait small sample size. You meant Aaron Gray? Sorry, he's a free agent. My bad. Obviously you meant Jamaal Magloire. No? Ah, you really meant either Ed Davis or Amir Johnson. Both of whom posted some pretty pedestrian rebounding marks, ranking 47th and 71st in the league in TRB%, and 76th and 59th in ORB% where we need the help.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:19 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Our best per game rebounder. Who plays less than 24 mpg.

Also, carp, I don't know if it's worse than the horrid big who rebounds poorly but once again it highlights said 2 guard's 1-dimensionality.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:27 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Our best per game rebounder. Who plays less than 24 mpg.

Also, carp, I don't know if it's worse than the horrid big who rebounds poorly but once again it highlights said 2 guard's 1-dimensionality.
agreed, but ed davis needs to do more than rebound per game to really be more useful. Trading him away isn't the end of the world, especially when Gray proved added size helped him make defensive rebounding look effortless!
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:30 PM   #68 (permalink)
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agreed, but ed davis needs to do more than rebound per game to really be more useful. Trading him away isn't the end of the world, especially when Gray proved added size helped him make defensive rebounding look effortless!
But Gray won't likely be here next season. Also, the ed davis part I was responding to DanH.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:32 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Ed Davis is a good trade chip,considering he was a steal for us as a draft pick. I would rather get rid of Amir Johnson but i don't think anyone would want him at his price regardless of who else is in a packaged deal with Johnson. Also to amnesty his contract may not be the best move.

One week away,stay tuned folks,stay tuned!
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:36 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Ed Davis is a good trade chip,considering he was a steal for us as a draft pick. I would rather get rid of Amir Johnson but i don't think anyone would want him at his price regardless of who else is in a packaged deal with Johnson. Also to amnesty his contract may not be the best move.

One week away,stay tuned folks,stay tuned!
Although ED might have the better career and more potential, Amir is a much much much better fit on this team. He will do as he's told, play injured, can play PF and C, starts or comes off the bench, is quite efficient. Also, ED's rookie contract is appealing to teams.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:43 PM   #71 (permalink)
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But Gray won't likely be here next season. Also, the ed davis part I was responding to DanH.
Ed Davis having the most rebounds per game does not mean he is a better rebounder. Gray averaged less than 1 rebound less than Davis in 2/3rds the playing time. Why not bring him back?

Again, his rebounding rate was extremely pedestrian versus the league and his teammates, and he only leads in per game numbers because the (multiple) more effective rebounders on the team were played in smaller doses.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:41 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Ed Davis having the most rebounds per game does not mean he is a better rebounder. Gray averaged less than 1 rebound less than Davis in 2/3rds the playing time. Why not bring him back?

Again, his rebounding rate was extremely pedestrian versus the league and his teammates, and he only leads in per game numbers because the (multiple) more effective rebounders on the team were played in smaller doses.
touche, still impressive that he did that in less than half a game. Also, Gray won't be making the same amount of $ as last year and currently on this roster we have JonasV, Amir, Bargs and Ed Davis as the main bigs. Alabi if he's kept with the TO. JJ and LKZ can also play pf.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:47 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Gray averaged less than 1 rebound less than Davis in 2/3rds the playing time. Why not bring him back?
I would prefer someone that can jump high enough to leave the ground... or with a veritcal above zero.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:49 PM   #74 (permalink)
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I would prefer someone that can jump high enough to leave the ground... or with a veritcal above zero.
with that hair, gray will get whatever amount of $ he wants from mlse
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