D. Smith: Trading #8 a very real possibility if they get a later pick in return - Page 3

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Old 06-20-2012, 07:57 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I think he just meant that DD doesn't deserve anywhere near the money Bargnani got... and he's probably right.
If that's what he meant then I 100% agree. I took it as an economical deal based on his skill set. DD is not at the 10mil per BUT if he gets his defense going this year and is consistent then you might see a deal that ends close to that number.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:02 PM   #42 (permalink)
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i always said this int he beginning...it is better to get a late first round pick since we have plenty good SF in that range


plus we can get decent player in return with exchange
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:51 PM   #43 (permalink)
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If that's what he meant then I 100% agree. I took it as an economical deal based on his skill set. DD is not at the 10mil per BUT if he gets his defense going this year and is consistent then you might see a deal that ends close to that number.
Bargs didn't deserve that money, but granted, it's ok, because of Bargs' inability to rebound, raps saved probably 4-5 million/season on his contract. DD is just still so incredibly raw, and unlike Bargs, he would not have a role on a playoff team.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:02 PM   #44 (permalink)
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and unlike Bargs, he would not have a role on a playoff team.
Derozan wouldn't have a role on a playoff team?

Likely not as a starter but he'd have a role imo.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:10 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Derozan wouldn't have a role on a playoff team?

Likely not as a starter but he'd have a role imo.
How so, the majority of playoff teams need players with defined skills. most notable at SG/SF are d and 3 point shooting. then if they are like a Jamal Crawford type player off the bench then they have ball handling skills and the ability to break down opposing teams' d. in rare cases a SG/SF could be brought on if they can rebound (say for example if they have a big like Bargs who can't rebound so they need someone to make up for it). Reserves are also used to their role off the bench.

So, does DD have any one of those skills? He also has been given the starting role to him on a silver platter since entering the league. He also would not have the comfort knowing he isn't one of the teams' top options on offense.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:09 PM   #46 (permalink)
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How so, the majority of playoff teams need players with defined skills. most notable at SG/SF are d and 3 point shooting. then if they are like a Jamal Crawford type player off the bench then they have ball handling skills and the ability to break down opposing teams' d. in rare cases a SG/SF could be brought on if they can rebound (say for example if they have a big like Bargs who can't rebound so they need someone to make up for it). Reserves are also used to their role off the bench.

So, does DD have any one of those skills? He also has been given the starting role to him on a silver platter since entering the league. He also would not have the comfort knowing he isn't one of the teams' top options on offense.
To say he wouldn't have a role, by making up roles that he doesn't fit to make your argument work, does not make sense.

Your correct argument is DD would not have a significant role. His role could be anything from 4 minute a game plug to towel boy and it would still be a role.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:40 PM   #47 (permalink)
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To say he wouldn't have a role, by making up roles that he doesn't fit to make your argument work, does not make sense.

Your correct argument is DD would not have a significant role. His role could be anything from 4 minute a game plug to towel boy and it would still be a role.
I'd say he'd play more than four minutes a game..., are you seriously considering derozan to a player like POB?

and Derozan is still so incredibly young, hasn't gotten his extension yet, and has shown constant improvement. Remember him in his rookie year? He couldn't shoot a mid range shot. Now he's, I would say, somewhat dangerous off the pull up. he shot what, 0.1% from three last year? Now he's up to what, 20 something? In one summer, without a training camp/official trainers with him, all of that on top of a condensed schedule which takes your legs? And we've seen Derozan improve on defense. Granted not by much, but when he adds several pounds as most players do when they hit their mid 20s, and has time to work and focus on Defense, with a defensive mastermind like casey, then yeah, I can definitely see his D improving greatly. You can't teach size, you CAN teach ability.

I'd be happy with an extension up to starting at 6 million a year, giving that's what players like dragic, lowry, Lin etc, are going for.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:47 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Iguodala would be the best player in the deal so your conclusion is baffling. And #15 may turn out to be a better player than #8. Nobody has a clue what player beyond 5th will end up being.
So we are trading 8 for 15 and Iggy? Lol.... Come on Bankiz
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:52 PM   #49 (permalink)
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So we are trading 8 for 15 and Iggy? Lol.... Come on Bankiz
No

Davis, Calderon, #8 for Iggy, #15


Latest rumor... Were you not paying attention?
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:38 PM   #50 (permalink)
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To say he wouldn't have a role, by making up roles that he doesn't fit to make your argument work, does not make sense.

Your correct argument is DD would not have a significant role. His role could be anything from 4 minute a game plug to towel boy and it would still be a role.
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I'd say he'd play more than four minutes a game..., are you seriously considering derozan to a player like POB?

and Derozan is still so incredibly young, hasn't gotten his extension yet, and has shown constant improvement. Remember him in his rookie year? He couldn't shoot a mid range shot. Now he's, I would say, somewhat dangerous off the pull up. he shot what, 0.1% from three last year? Now he's up to what, 20 something? In one summer, without a training camp/official trainers with him, all of that on top of a condensed schedule which takes your legs? And we've seen Derozan improve on defense. Granted not by much, but when he adds several pounds as most players do when they hit their mid 20s, and has time to work and focus on Defense, with a defensive mastermind like casey, then yeah, I can definitely see his D improving greatly. You can't teach size, you CAN teach ability.

I'd be happy with an extension up to starting at 6 million a year, giving that's what players like dragic, lowry, Lin etc, are going for.
Apparently Grizz says that the skills and roles that many key players have in many playoff teams' rotations that I listed were made up. There are no players with special skills or one primary skill. Players who are great defensively and can shoot the 3 don't exist (Battier).

Pzabby, yes he can improve, but right now he is just lacking in way too many areas. DD has improved on d, but in no way or form would he be brought in off the bench to provide some d. Do you honestly, think, for example, DD would have a role in SAS' rotation?

LOL at Dragic getting 6 million/year. Lowry only got that little salary because Houston is smart.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:19 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Apparently Grizz says that the skills and roles that many key players have in many playoff teams' rotations that I listed were made up. There are no players with special skills or one primary skill. Players who are great defensively and can shoot the 3 don't exist (Battier).

Pzabby, yes he can improve, but right now he is just lacking in way too many areas. DD has improved on d, but in no way or form would he be brought in off the bench to provide some d. Do you honestly, think, for example, DD would have a role in SAS' rotation?

LOL at Dragic getting 6 million/year. Lowry only got that little salary because Houston is smart.
with the new cap system/taxing, I can see contracts being lessened. Sure there's a bubble right now, but it'll slowly come back down to earth, starting this off season. If JC got 8 million back whenever, then dragic with the new rules will get around 6-8, with 8 being a stretch. he is NOT, and I repeat, NOT proven enough as a starter to deem worth more than 8.

and to DD and a role: well if the raps are making the playoffs next season like so many have said, he better be good enough by the end of it cause we're not getting rid of him
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:24 AM   #52 (permalink)
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and to DD and a role: well if the raps are making the playoffs next season like so many have said, he better be good enough by the end of it cause we're not getting rid of him
Go through each playoff team and look at what their starting SG/SF and reserve SG/SF could do. I already had this argument on the other board I'm on and the advocate of DD got crushed. I like how you don't acknowledge DD's 1-dimensionality within his 1-dimensionality (only has use on offense and on offense can only do 1-2 things), just like how you don't admit that it would be more logical for Spurs to sell Modric.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:34 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Go through each playoff team and look at what their starting SG/SF and reserve SG/SF could do. I already had this argument on the other board I'm on and the advocate of DD got crushed. I like how you don't acknowledge DD's 1-dimensionality within his 1-dimensionality (only has use on offense and on offense can only do 1-2 things), just like how you don't admit that it would be more logical for Spurs to sell Modric.
don't bring football into this debate, while I of course say that it makes sense for the spurs to hold onto a top five deep lying playmaker in the game.

Well I hope DD doesn't get crushed, but again, a reason for the SAS being so successful, while being so old, is a lot of factors, but the most important one being they play as a team. A team can focus one people's strengths, and hide their weaknesses, something casey has proven he can do this season by getting our D up to top half in the league while having no massive additions.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:28 AM   #54 (permalink)
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yeah, cause relying on lottery picks alone worked so bad for okc, chicago, memphis, clippers, indiana, portland and atlanta with minesotta not far behind.
Chicago got freaking super lucky with drose and Taj Gibson so I wouldn't put them in the same category. Memphis had rights to Marc, traded for Z-Bo and signed Tony Allen so they aren't in that category either. Clippers were a joke of a franchise and struck out time and time again and became respectable when they got CP3. Portland got fucked so hard with injuries and Atlanta is on the treadmill.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:53 AM   #55 (permalink)
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don't bring football into this debate, while I of course say that it makes sense for the spurs to hold onto a top five deep lying playmaker in the game.

Well I hope DD doesn't get crushed, but again, a reason for the SAS being so successful, while being so old, is a lot of factors, but the most important one being they play as a team. A team can focus one people's strengths, and hide their weaknesses, something casey has proven he can do this season by getting our D up to top half in the league while having no massive additions.
Yeah, a top 5 deep lying playmaker who obviously is frustrated and/or who doesn't want to be there.

Casey can only do so much with the horrible trio at his disposal (aka Jose, DD, Bargs). JonasV is a rookie. At some point in time he's going to need players who are naturally very good defensively.

Also, with DD starting with Bargs, he needs to be able to help in other areas (if he could boost his rpg to 4 that would be good). A poster on another board said it best, DD isn't the problem with Bargs being on the team, however, he is a problem.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:01 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Yeah, a top 5 deep lying playmaker who obviously is frustrated and/or who doesn't want to be there.

Casey can only do so much with the horrible trio at his disposal (aka Jose, DD, Bargs). JonasV is a rookie. At some point in time he's going to need players who are naturally very good defensively.

Also, with DD starting with Bargs, he needs to be able to help in other areas (if he could boost his rpg to 4 that would be good). A poster on another board said it best, DD isn't the problem with Bargs being on the team, however, he is a problem.
ALso, with DD starting, every other starter needs to pick up the slack cause DD is a liability in many areas and just not that well-rounded.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:08 AM   #57 (permalink)
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ALso, with DD starting, every other starter needs to pick up the slack cause DD is a liability in many areas and just not that well-rounded.
He is like Bargs at the SG position, except much more 1-dimensional.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:31 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Yeah, a top 5 deep lying playmaker who obviously is frustrated and/or who doesn't want to be there.

Casey can only do so much with the horrible trio at his disposal (aka Jose, DD, Bargs). JonasV is a rookie. At some point in time he's going to need players who are naturally very good defensively.

Also, with DD starting with Bargs, he needs to be able to help in other areas (if he could boost his rpg to 4 that would be good). A poster on another board said it best, DD isn't the problem with Bargs being on the team, however, he is a problem.
aren't we the second best rebounding team in the league? I don't give two fucks if Bargs averages 5 rbns a game and DD 1 if we have that stat
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:44 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Apparently Grizz says that the skills and roles that many key players have in many playoff teams' rotations that I listed were made up. There are no players with special skills or one primary skill. Players who are great defensively and can shoot the 3 don't exist (Battier).
Apparently your ability to debate is rivaled only by your ability to read. You made your own definitions of what constitutes roles on a playoff team. I didn't dispute that those are roles, just that they're not the only ones. Then, I disputed the fact that Derozan wouldn't have a role as again, he could literally never get on the court and have a role. It's an issue of semantics that I should drop, but I assumed you would admit you were unarguably wrong on that aspect.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:56 PM   #60 (permalink)
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aren't we the second best rebounding team in the league? I don't give two fucks if Bargs averages 5 rbns a game and DD 1 if we have that stat
We were the third best defensive rebounding team in the league this year. So that might be what you are looking at. But we were also the 22nd best offensive rebounding team - which had a lot to do with the system, but could definitely be improved on.
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