Could this be the reason?
Old 01-01-2009, 02:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Most Raptor fans dislike Vince Carter for being a clown and dogging it so noticably in TO for a few years. When we selected Bosh in the draft Carter was not impressed with the pick and expressed it a few times (can't remember where, but the media mentioned it happening).

Then fast forward to several years later when Carter was playing for NJ in Toronto (His 2nd or 3rd or 4th game in TO since being traded) and the fans were chanting MVP for Bosh because he was having a good statistical game. Carter was laughing and motioning to the crowd that Bosh was not an MVP type of player while they chanted.

I think the whole Carter situation (with leaving the way he did and not liking Bosh's selection) forced fans to support Bosh no matter what (in a way to get back at Carter) and that's why we are in this position now where he hasn't really developed into a franchise player, yet is given that label and we keep running the ball through him (even when he is struggling) because of it. He plays 40 minutes a game and with the touches he get's no wonder his stats seem solid.

If, for example, we gave Andrea the minutes and touches that Bosh get's, I'm sure he would be able to get much better stats then Bosh (I'm not saying to do this because I've never seen it done, just giving an example of the opportunities that Bosh get's DESPITE always struggling against tough defenses and struggling in clutch situations). I've seen games where Andrea had a solid game throughout the entire game and down to the stretch, but on the other hand Bosh has continually struggled against tougher, stronger defenders, struggled when he got double teamed, struggled with his shot (and even in some games that he had high 30's or 40 point games) I've seen him vanish in the last 3 minutes of the game which ended up costing us the game.

I feel Bosh needs to be traded because BC can't demote him to be a player that he is more suitable to be (2nd, 3rd option) So he will continue to (in a way) be our weakest link.

IMO if one summer Bosh gained like atleast 15 pounds of muscle, he'd have the potential to be much better.
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Old 01-01-2009, 02:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Trade Bosh

Yes I wanted Wade instead of Bosh but that's in the past

If we trade Bosh it will be a problem with getting any all stars in the future because stars don't like getting bounced around, they want security and a long contract. Of course they'll except a trade if the go to a better team.

Trade Bosh to GS or any other lottery bound team for some future draft picks but he probably has a no trade clause.
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Old 01-01-2009, 02:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I feel Bosh needs to be traded because BC can't demote him to be a player that he is more suitable to be (2nd, 3rd option) So he will continue to (in a way) be our weakest link.
Okay, you lost me at this point. Can you give me a bit more on how you think Bosh should be the Raps 2nd or 3rd option and how he is our weakest link? I'm not sure I'm reading you clearly here.
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Old 01-01-2009, 02:12 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I had hopes for Bosh because I seriously thought he might be the kind of franchise player that could win a championship. He's disappointed me time and again, though, and I've since come to the realization of that he isn't ever going to be the player I thought he could be. Mentally, he's just not in the right place, and that's really something you can't change. None of it has anything to do with any sort of a grudge agaisnt Vince Carter (I don't even have a problem with Vince, he's a good player).

I also don't think you can just assume Bargnani would suddenly become the efficient scorer that Bosh is. He's shown flashes of being better than Chris, but that's all they are...flashes.

That said, I think trading Bosh is the right move for the long term situation of this team. He's going to be leaving in two years anyway, and I think they should use this season as a chance to get a look at Andrea being the #1 option because Bosh certainly isn't the answer. The guy plays no defense, and lacks mental toughness. His future is as a #2 on a great team...and it won't be in Toronto.
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Old 01-01-2009, 02:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I had hopes for Bosh because I seriously thought he might be the kind of franchise player that could win a championship. He's disappointed me time and again, though, and I've since come to the realization of that he isn't ever going to be the player I thought he could be. Mentally, he's just not in the right place, and that's really something you can't change. None of it has anything to do with any sort of a grudge agaisnt Vince Carter (I don't even have a problem with Vince, he's a good player).

I also don't think you can just assume Bargnani would suddenly become the efficient scorer that Bosh is. He's shown flashes of being better than Chris, but that's all they are...flashes.

That said, I think trading Bosh is the right move for the long term situation of this team. He's going to be leaving in two years anyway, and I think they should use this season as a chance to get a look at Andrea being the #1 option because Bosh certainly isn't the answer. The guy plays no defense, and lacks mental toughness. His future is as a #2 on a great team...and it won't be in Toronto.
Well said.
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Old 01-01-2009, 02:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Okay, you lost me at this point. Can you give me a bit more on how you think Bosh should be the Raps 2nd or 3rd option and how he is our weakest link? I'm not sure I'm reading you clearly here.
(through a trade) we need a good slasher to be our go-to, and to run through JO more.

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Old 01-01-2009, 03:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
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wow, you have to be kidding me...
our weakest link? you serious?
i can name 5 players on the team that are weaker links than him.
stfu and quit making Bosh look like hes just a scrub playing great on a bad team.
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Old 01-01-2009, 08:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I don't think fans support Bosh because of Carter. I think the fans need that one player that they can get behind, our leader. VC was noticeably the leader for some time but Bosh stepped in after he left. You see teams and they have one person that oushines the rest of the team.
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Old 01-01-2009, 09:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
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One thing i gotta say is i always hated the arguement "he only has good numbers because he gets more touches" etc etc, when you are a teams number 1 option, other teams plan their D around stopping you, making it harder to score, its not like any Joe Jabroni in the NBA could become the number 1 option on a team and start dropping 22 a game.
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Old 01-01-2009, 10:47 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Bosh needs more touches if anything. I was so pissed listening to Leo in the gameinanhour bitching about Bosh "settling" for a mid-range J at one point when he had 5 fucking defenders in front of him. I didn't see anybody cutting into an open space for a pass. I didn't see anybody making it harder for Denver's defense to key in on guy all night long by being another threat to get into the paint. Bosh has to carry the whole load, and then when he comes up short we hear calls to trade his ass.

And Vince was an idiot for his comments regarding the draft. He didn't direct them at Bosh, he just wanted the pick traded period, regardless of who got selected. He wanted to be GM by proxy, and fuck him for that among other things.
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:13 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Bosh needs more touches if anything. I was so pissed listening to Leo in the gameinanhour bitching about Bosh "settling" for a mid-range J at one point when he had 5 fucking defenders in front of him. I didn't see anybody cutting into an open space for a pass. I didn't see anybody making it harder for Denver's defense to key in on guy all night long by being another threat to get into the paint. Bosh has to carry the whole load, and then when he comes up short we hear calls to trade his ass.
Only at one point? I swear we almost always see the same game LX. He's on the court with not one other guy who has the instincts to get dirty in the paint.

Atleast a handful of times he's got 10 Denver Nugget eyes looking directly at him, he's having a horrible shooting game, and he has the pressure to get to the rim and dunk it on all of them despite everything working against him.

And the thing is, he still managed to get in their and dunk it on them twice. But that's not good enough. He has to do it until we win the game.
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by highonpsi View Post
Most Raptor fans dislike Vince Carter for being a clown and dogging it so noticably in TO for a few years. When we selected Bosh in the draft Carter was not impressed with the pick and expressed it a few times (can't remember where, but the media mentioned it happening).

Then fast forward to several years later when Carter was playing for NJ in Toronto (His 2nd or 3rd or 4th game in TO since being traded) and the fans were chanting MVP for Bosh because he was having a good statistical game. Carter was laughing and motioning to the crowd that Bosh was not an MVP type of player while they chanted.

I think the whole Carter situation (with leaving the way he did and not liking Bosh's selection) forced fans to support Bosh no matter what (in a way to get back at Carter) and that's why we are in this position now where he hasn't really developed into a franchise player, yet is given that label and we keep running the ball through him (even when he is struggling) because of it. He plays 40 minutes a game and with the touches he get's no wonder his stats seem solid.

If, for example, we gave Andrea the minutes and touches that Bosh get's, I'm sure he would be able to get much better stats then Bosh (I'm not saying to do this because I've never seen it done, just giving an example of the opportunities that Bosh get's DESPITE always struggling against tough defenses and struggling in clutch situations). I've seen games where Andrea had a solid game throughout the entire game and down to the stretch, but on the other hand Bosh has continually struggled against tougher, stronger defenders, struggled when he got double teamed, struggled with his shot (and even in some games that he had high 30's or 40 point games) I've seen him vanish in the last 3 minutes of the game which ended up costing us the game.

I feel Bosh needs to be traded because BC can't demote him to be a player that he is more suitable to be (2nd, 3rd option) So he will continue to (in a way) be our weakest link.

IMO if one summer Bosh gained like atleast 15 pounds of muscle, he'd have the potential to be much better.
Lol.... and why do you think that is? Maybe because Bosh draws the attention of the other team's defense, allowing Bargs to get open time after time?

If people are pissed about Bosh not getting to the rim enough and relying on the jumper what the hell are they going to expect from Bargs????

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Old 01-01-2009, 05:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Lol.... and why do you think that is? Maybe because Bosh draws the attention of the other team's defense, allowing Bargs to get open time after time?

If people are pissed about Bosh not getting to the rim enough and relying on the jumper what the hell are they going to expect from Bargs????

Bosh had 1 assist yesterday.

He just does not have good basketball IQ.

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Old 01-01-2009, 05:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Bosh had 1 assist yesterday. He does not have good basketball IQ.
Good Lord lol.... that doesn't even warrant a response.
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Good Lord lol.... that doesn't even warrant a response.
Thank God.
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:48 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Bosh had 1 assist yesterday. He does not have good basketball IQ.
What!? Really?!
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Lol.... and why do you think that is? Maybe because Bosh draws the attention of the other team's defense, allowing Bargs to get open time after time?

If people are pissed about Bosh not getting to the rim enough and relying on the jumper what the hell are they going to expect from Bargs????

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...gid=2008111914

did Bosh attract defense here and hit Bargnani for some of his 25 points? No, he had 1 assist in that game too.

Yesterdays game Barg's had 26 and Bosh had 1 assist. I am pointing out that Bosh is getting touches and MAKING BAD DECISIONS. Taking rediculous shots and not being much of an impact. All I see is him hurting this team more times then not.
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
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And Vince was an idiot for his comments regarding the draft. He didn't direct them at Bosh, he just wanted the pick traded period, regardless of who got selected. He wanted to be GM by proxy, and fuck him for that among other things.
Bosh has also made comments that suggested "he wanted to be GM by proxy" too. So fuck Chris Bosh.
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:59 PM   #19 (permalink)
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...gid=2008111914

did Bosh attract defense here and hit Bargnani for some of his 25 points? No, he had 1 assist in that game too.

Yesterdays game Barg's had 26 and Bosh had 1 assist. I am pointing out that Bosh is getting touches and MAKING BAD DECISIONS. Taking rediculous shots and not being much of an impact. All I see is him hurting this team more times then not.
And honestly, that's because YOU have no basketball sense lol...

How many outisde jumpers did Bargs hit because he was left open? His whole offensive game is reliant on OTHER players drawing the attention of the D.

If you think that Bosh has no impact out there you're just plain silly.

Do everyone here a favour and learn the game.
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Old 01-01-2009, 06:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Bosh has also made comments that suggested "he wanted to be GM by proxy" too. So fuck Chris Bosh.
Where?

Wow, the hatred for Chris Bosh on this board has reached some ridiculous levels.
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