Comparing Gay and DeRozan to the rest of the league
Old 07-25-2013, 07:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
landry fields forever

Administrator

 
Acie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 21,748
Representing:
Default Comparing Gay and DeRozan to the rest of the league

Quote:
They ranked were below average (ranked 17th) in offensive rating, but ranked 12th in defensive rating, which is surprisingly good when most people consider DeRozan a bad defender. Overall, they would rank 14th on that list, just behind Golden State’s starters (Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes) and Houston’s starters (James Harden and Chandler Parsons).

Their ranking isn’t too bad considering that Gay is coming off the worst shooting year of his career. Their offensive rating should increase next season if he gets his shooting back to career norms — 53.6 true shooting percent and 34.7 percent from beyond the arc in his first six seasons. However, his shot-selection needs to improve next season.

DeRozan is better than Gay in that sense. DeRozan takes shots that he can make, plays to his strengths and is one of the best two-guards at getting to the free-throw line. His three-point shot is still a work in progress, but he has improved every year in the NBA and has become one of the best mid-range shooters in the game.
Comparing Gay and DeRozan to the rest of the league | canada.com
Acie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 09:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 6,972
Representing:
Default

Quote:
one of the best mid-range shooters in the game

people constantly overlook this about DD
pzabby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 09:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 75,874
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
people constantly overlook this about DD
It's one of the few things he's good at, I doubt it's overlooked. Fuck if he could do that he'd be absolutely useless. If you can't shoot 3's you better have a mid range game.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 10:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 6,972
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
It's one of the few things he's good at, I doubt it's overlooked. Fuck if he could do that he'd be absolutely useless. If you can't shoot 3's you better have a mid range game.
yeah cause FTA and his post skills are useless right?
pzabby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 10:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 75,874
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
yeah cause FTA and his post skills are useless right?
Did I say that? But he can't hit 3's, and if he didn't have a midrange game he'd be useless........and he'd be making half the money he makes, especially with his defense taken into consideration. And his post skills aren't great imo.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 11:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
grabbin boards, droppin dimes, and lightin them up

Senior Member
 
Alex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,221
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Did I say that? But he can't hit 3's, and if he didn't have a midrange game he'd be useless........and he'd be making half the money he makes, especially with his defense taken into consideration. And his post skills aren't great imo.
So if he couldn't do anything he wouldn't make as much money, huh. Really makes you think.
Alex is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 10:05 AM   #7 (permalink)
waiting...

Member
 
myklue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Richmond Hill
Posts: 463
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Did I say that? But he can't hit 3's, and if he didn't have a midrange game he'd be useless........and he'd be making half the money he makes, especially with his defense taken into consideration. And his post skills aren't great imo.
not only that, he started to pussy out on attacking the rim toward the end of the season. Instead of going for contact, he was avoiding and trying to do acrobatic moves to get around the defender and started missing more layups.

DD's weapons should be this: 1) attacking hard at the rim 2) mid range 3) 3's
myklue is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 10:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 75,874
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by myklue View Post
not only that, he started to pussy out on attacking the rim toward the end of the season. Instead of going for contact, he was avoiding and trying to do acrobatic moves to get around the defender and started missing more layups.

DD's weapons should be this: 1) attacking hard at the rim 2) mid range 3) 3's
He really needs to cut down on the turn around fadeaway shots too.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 10:21 AM   #9 (permalink)
is not really from Croatia

Senior Member
 
ZanTheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,470
Representing:
Default

We have two AllStar worthy players in Gay and DD, how many teams can say that?
ZanTheMan is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 10:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,706
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanTheMan View Post
We have two AllStar worthy players in Gay and DD, how many teams can say that?
Several. But no, we don't. Neither is all-star calibre. Gay, maybe, if he returns to his career bests. DeRozan, maybe, if he shows us talent he hasn't yet hinted at.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 10:36 AM   #11 (permalink)
is not really from Croatia

Senior Member
 
ZanTheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,470
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Several. But no, we don't. Neither is all-star calibre. Gay, maybe, if he returns to his career bests. DeRozan, maybe, if he shows us talent he hasn't yet hinted at.
They're not that far off. A little statistical improvement and a winning record should suffice.

BTW, Gay posted the best averages of his career while playing for us so that shouldn't be a problem.

Last edited by ZanTheMan; 07-26-2013 at 10:39 AM.
ZanTheMan is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 10:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,706
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanTheMan View Post
They're not that far off. A little statistical improvement and a winning record should suffice.

BTW, Gay posted the best averages of his career while playing for us so that shouldn't be a problem.
Yes, they are pretty far off. Especially DeRozan.

As for Gay's career bests (including his partial year here):
FG%: 2010-11
3PT%: 2010-11
PPG: 2007-08
PTS/36: TOR 2013
ORTG: 2009-10
DRTG: MEM 2012
WS/48: 2010-11
TRB%: TOR 2013
AST%: TOR 2013

He did well here passing and rebounding the ball, for which he deserves credit, but he is only a candidate for all-stardom if he can return to his career best efficiencies, which he was very far off while here.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 10:59 AM   #13 (permalink)
is not really from Croatia

Senior Member
 
ZanTheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,470
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Yes, they are pretty far off. Especially DeRozan.

As for Gay's career bests (including his partial year here):
FG%: 2010-11
3PT%: 2010-11
PPG: 2007-08
PTS/36: TOR 2013
ORTG: 2009-10
DRTG: MEM 2012
WS/48: 2010-11
TRB%: TOR 2013
AST%: TOR 2013

He did well here passing and rebounding the ball, for which he deserves credit, but he is only a candidate for all-stardom if he can return to his career best efficiencies, which he was very far off while here.
I am not convinced PER plays that big a role in AllStar selections but we'll probably never see eye to eye on that matter lol.
ZanTheMan is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 10:59 AM   #14 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 75,874
Representing:
Default

Rudy was good when he first came, then he struggled, but ended the season very strong. The last 10-12 games he was above his career bests. Small sample size but hopefully he can be a 44/36/80 shooter or sonewhere in that ballpark this sesson.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 11:04 AM   #15 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,706
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanTheMan View Post
I am not convinced PER plays that big a role in AllStar selections but we'll probably never see eye to eye on that matter lol.
PER? When did I say anything about PER? I explicitly excluded PER.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 11:05 AM   #16 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,494
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
people constantly overlook this about DD
We should take issue about a player that makes his mark excelling at the long two, the most inefficient shot in the league, and failing everywhere else. DD is a major part of the reason why this team's offensive culture is heavily influenced by 17 foot jumpers. It's not a key to winning. Those are the shots teams want us to take. People often overlook this about DD's game.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 11:05 AM   #17 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 75,874
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
PER? When did I say anything about PER? I explicitly excluded PER.
He's probably eluding to pts/36
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 11:11 AM   #18 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,706
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Rudy was good when he first came, then he struggled, but ended the season very strong. The last 10-12 games he was above his career bests. Small sample size but hopefully he can be a 44/36/80 shooter or sonewhere in that ballpark this sesson.
Yeah, the last 9 games of the season he was pretty phenomenal, but there was also some inconsistency - he had 2 games in that stretch that were AWFUL. But even with those two games included, he had a very hot streak going. 48%/50%/81% with 4.2 3PTA and 20 points per game. Not to mention 6.6 rebounds and 3 assists per game.

Going back to 12 games like you suggest makes those numbers 47%/48%/78% with 4.0 3PTA and 18.8 PPG. Same rebounding and assist numbers. Still very impressive.

Small sample size, but if he can maintain that, this team will look pretty good. Big if though.

Here's a bigger sample size though - if you look at the games after the all-star break, in 26 games Rudy shot .380 from 3 on almost 4 attempts per game. That's the single most promising stat I've seen with regards to a potential return to previous efficiencies.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 11:13 AM   #19 (permalink)
is not really from Croatia

Senior Member
 
ZanTheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,470
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
PER? When did I say anything about PER? I explicitly excluded PER.
Oh my bad I didn't really look at those numbers closely, I'm not that much of a stats guy.

But let's say Gay's eye operation (or whatever it was) and a little training "fixes" those low shooting percentages, maybe he could average 22 and 6 (not that much of a stretch if you ask me), and let's say Demar could average 21 and 5 at decent percentages.

Now if all this takes place in an attractive and efficient offense which attracts leaguewide attention and recognition (we saw the first signs of that last season), and we have a winning record, than yes Rudy and Demar might stand a chance at the ASG.

But they'll have plenty of competition I won't argue with that...
ZanTheMan is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 11:24 AM   #20 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,706
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
We should take issue about a player that makes his mark excelling at the long two, the most inefficient shot in the league, and failing everywhere else. DD is a major part of the reason why this team's offensive culture is heavily influenced by 17 foot jumpers. It's not a key to winning. Those are the shots teams want us to take. People often overlook this about DD's game.
He "excels" at the midrange jumper.

From 10-23 feet, he shoots 40%. From 10-15 feet, 40%. From 16-23 feet, obviously, 40%. That's 0.8 points per shot. That's an ORTG of 80. The worst team offense in the league has an ORTG of 100.

That's 147th in the league in 10-15 foot jump shot %. 95th in the league in 16-23 foot jump shot %.

You know what he excels at? TAKING long inefficient jump shots. 2nd in the league in 16-23 foot jumpers per game (with a worse percentage than all but 2 of the top 16). 25th in the league in 10-15 foot jumpers per game (only 5 of those 24 above him shot worse from there).

Yay, DeMar!
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24