Comparing Gay and DeRozan to the rest of the league - Page 3
Old 07-29-2013, 02:41 PM   #41 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,046
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
That timely maneuvering is my concern going into the season.

If Gay proves worth keeping, and Lowry proves worth keeping, you've got to make sure you keep them. The risk of them walking for nothing HAS to be considered when managing those assets. So if Gay doesn't agree to an extension of his contract, I don't want him finishing the year here. Maybe he'd re-sign as a UFA, maybe he'd walk. I don't like the risk. Lowry's even worse a situation - there's no way he accepts an extension due to the limitations it would put on him salary-wise. So if you want to keep him at all, you have to accept the risk of allowing him to try free agency.

Of course, all that depends on how they play this season. But even in the best case (in terms of their performance), you leave a lot to be desired in terms of control if you have to go into free agency hoping to re-sign them.

The rest of the team is fairly controllable in terms of assets - Amir is locked in for a couple years, DeMar for a while, Ross and JV on rookie scale contracts. So that's good. But Gay and Lowry are two BIG pieces, and the uncertainty with them is what has me most on edge this year.
Yep... Lowry should be traded at the deadline regardless of what happens if he doesn't resign (can you resign him in January?). If Gay is better, well we can still have a shot at tying him up since he should accept the 19 mill either way unless he wins the MVP.
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 03:26 PM   #42 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,706
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu View Post
Yep... Lowry should be traded at the deadline regardless of what happens if he doesn't resign (can you resign him in January?). If Gay is better, well we can still have a shot at tying him up since he should accept the 19 mill either way unless he wins the MVP.
No, you can't, that's the issue with Lowry. The most we can extend his contract for is for three years, 21.4 M (that extension could be done any time). I don't think he extends for that. If you can't get an extension done, then he'll hit unrestricted free agency, and can sign wherever he likes, with the Raps having no control at that point. We can offer whatever amount (up to his max), but have no actual rights to stop him from going elsewhere.

And I'm beginning to doubt Gay opts into his 19M salary unless he has a terrible year. Long term stability is a big thing with athletes, and if he thinks he can command even 14 M per year on a 4 year deal, that's worth a lot more to a player than a one-shot 19M year. And he can almost certainly command that. That's why I think the Raps best shot at keeping him (if they choose to do so) is to do an opt-in extension where he gets his 19M and then drops to 12M or so for two years, averaging about 14M per year.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 04:19 PM   #43 (permalink)
the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor

The Mara sisters are hot!
 
Bill Haverchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,221
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post

And I'm beginning to doubt Gay opts into his 19M salary unless he has a terrible year. Long term stability is a big thing with athletes, and if he thinks he can command even 14 M per year on a 4 year deal, that's worth a lot more to a player than a one-shot 19M year. And he can almost certainly command that. That's why I think the Raps best shot at keeping him (if they choose to do so) is to do an opt-in extension where he gets his 19M and then drops to 12M or so for two years, averaging about 14M per year.
I'm not convinced Ruy can get $14M per from another team, even if he returns to his old %s and has a respectable season. Close, but not that much. I think he'd get Iggy $. Sacramento thought about giving Iggy 14 and quickly realized it's just too much. And I'd guess a lot of GMs realize Iggy can have a bigger overall impact on games. I think your $12M figure is closer to what the market would be, so he'd be well served to take the extension you're proposing.

On a related note, Deng and Granger could be FAs this summer too, which means there is potential competition for cap space from teams looking to get an SF. That's a wildcard situation.

EDIT - now that I think about it, the one way that he might be able to get $14M, is if a bunch of teams try to create cap space because they expect Lebron, Anthony, Bosh and Wade to opt out. Mabye Rudy ends up with, say, the Lakers, and getting overpaid because they struckout on getting the bigger names, or those guys just didn't opt out. Other than that, I just can't see a GM allocating so much space for him.

Last edited by Bill Haverchuck; 07-29-2013 at 04:25 PM. Reason: clarification
Bill Haverchuck is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 04:31 PM   #44 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,706
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck View Post
I'm not convinced Ruy can get $14M per from another team, even if he returns to his old %s and has a respectable season. Close, but not that much. I think he'd get Iggy $. Sacramento thought about giving Iggy 14 and quickly realized it's just too much. And I'd guess a lot of GMs realize Iggy can have a bigger overall impact on games. I think your $12M figure is closer to what the market would be, so he'd be well served to take the extension you're proposing.

On a related note, Deng and Granger could be FAs this summer too, which means there is potential competition for cap space from teams looking to get an SF. That's a wildcard situation.

EDIT - now that I think about it, the one way that he might be able to get $14M, is if a bunch of teams try to create cap space because they expect Lebron, Anthony, Bosh and Wade to opt out. Mabye Rudy ends up with, say, the Lakers, and getting overpaid because they struckout on getting the bigger names, or those guys just didn't opt out. Other than that, I just can't see a GM allocating so much space for him.
Millsap got 9.5M. Al Jeff got 14M. Smith got 13.5M. West got 12M.

Gay might not be worth that much more, but his name carries at least the cache that Smith or Al Jeff do. He'd get 14 M, I'm confident. And yes, the huge amount of cap space next summer plays into it as well.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 04:48 PM   #45 (permalink)
the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor

The Mara sisters are hot!
 
Bill Haverchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,221
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Millsap got 9.5M. Al Jeff got 14M. Smith got 13.5M. West got 12M.

Gay might not be worth that much more, but his name carries at least the cache that Smith or Al Jeff do. He'd get 14 M, I'm confident. And yes, the huge amount of cap space next summer plays into it as well.
Nah, Al got 13.5, just like Smith. And both are PFs (despite the fact Smooth might see some SF minutes).

You pay more for size.

Iggy is a better comparison, if you're going to use this summer.

And, as for next summer, you got factors that could go both ways, as I outlined. You could have teams clearing space in anticipation of another great free agent class. Maybe. You could also have 3-5 SFs available. It could happen, but, at this point, I'm not confident it will happen.

Last edited by Bill Haverchuck; 07-29-2013 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Forgetting "not" really does change the meaning of a sentence !
Bill Haverchuck is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 07:46 PM   #46 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,046
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
No, you can't, that's the issue with Lowry. The most we can extend his contract for is for three years, 21.4 M (that extension could be done any time). I don't think he extends for that. If you can't get an extension done, then he'll hit unrestricted free agency, and can sign wherever he likes, with the Raps having no control at that point. We can offer whatever amount (up to his max), but have no actual rights to stop him from going elsewhere.

And I'm beginning to doubt Gay opts into his 19M salary unless he has a terrible year. Long term stability is a big thing with athletes, and if he thinks he can command even 14 M per year on a 4 year deal, that's worth a lot more to a player than a one-shot 19M year. And he can almost certainly command that. That's why I think the Raps best shot at keeping him (if they choose to do so) is to do an opt-in extension where he gets his 19M and then drops to 12M or so for two years, averaging about 14M per year.
would you extend him for 14 million per today? I don't think I would. I would almost feel forced to wait to see if he improves... but you can't.
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 11:45 PM   #47 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,651
Representing:
Default

it makes no difference how much he's worth, or even what his market price is. All it matters is how much gay thinks he's worth. Some players/agents are severely misguided in these things (which is why milsap signed for 2/18M, ellis lost 33% of his salary and Jennings is still waiting for his contract).

If Gay believes he's worth 15M+ on the open market, he will not sign an extension. In which case, our only hope is that the market for him is such that we can resign him as a FA.

Hopefully it won't be the case, but it will be a dicey year between him and lowry's free agency (which in unavoidable). And it makes little difference what masai does - forces outside our control will drive this process. We just have to hope his agent will be smart.
moremilk is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 12:20 AM   #48 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,624
Representing:
Default

If Rudy opts out he's leaving. Lets hope we don't lose him for nothing.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 09:15 AM   #49 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
If Rudy opts out he's leaving. Lets hope we don't lose him for nothing.
Yup
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24