Colangelo's Year End News Conference - Page 6
Old 04-19-2011, 05:19 PM   #101 (permalink)
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You seriously can't see how you saying the results in a series would be THE SAME could possibly be looked at as the same as.......AS SUCCESSFUL?
If one day I get a 10 million inheritance and make as much money as bill gates for a day, does that make me as rich as him?
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:40 PM   #102 (permalink)
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He has the tendency to do that. The other day he said something and forget he even said it.

This Bargnani debate is annoying, it'll never be solved (believe me i've tried), unless of course he gets paired with a legitimate center and can prove his worth. I 100% believe Andrea will flourish in a system where he does not have to play the main center, and has someone in that position so he doesn't have all the pressure.

Like I have said before, people just need someone to blame for the past season, and Andrea is it.
I agree with you, but Bargs needs to get leaner again to truely flourish at the pf spot. He has added alot of weight and he no longer has any real lift or the same quick first step he had earlier in his career. If C does get a defensive center/block of meat to clog the middle defensively and work in the block and Bargs leans down a bit again his blocks will go back to 1.5 or so per game, probably raise his rebounds per by 1 but most importantly will be a real force on offense.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:42 PM   #103 (permalink)
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in carp's defense, he is right.
saying if u replace Bosh with Bargnani they would still sweep philly doesn't not mean that miami has gotten better or stayed the same as a result.
hypothetically speaking, its possible that with this swap miami is a worse off team but is still able to sweep philly.
but once the competition is more even, then the difference will show.
say if miami were to win the 2nd round 4-1, now with Bargnani would win 4-3
+1
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:21 PM   #104 (permalink)
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If one day I get a 10 million inheritance and make as much money as bill gates for a day, does that make me as rich as him?
You're already rich in my mind with wisdom like that!

See Jeff?
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:30 PM   #105 (permalink)
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You're already rich in my mind with wisdom like that!

See Jeff?
I've seen the light
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:17 AM   #106 (permalink)
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There goes Bryan and his extensive network again doing their PR to make believe he's a legitimate and reputable NBA decision maker (whose 'willing to admit his mistakes too!' ). It's kind of hard for Andrea to consistently prove he's a true starting caliber center, when Bryan's MO has been Tank Nation in 10-11, and other politicizing of our team in efforts to sometimes make him look good and other times to feed his non-Raptor constituents here and in previous seasons. And when all of that isn't in play, Andrea has a bunch of young players around him who are developing or veterans who don't fit in today's NBA like Reggie.

Really, if Bryan was so serious about pairing Andrea w/a defensive pivot, he could've kept Rasho, who has proven his worth time and again, and has shown he's still got it w/his play this year in the Euroleague and Greece domestic league. There was no need to try to give up Jose (a top 5 playmaking point guard, w/o whom our team would be even more painful to watch than they were this season in the games he played, as we wouldn't be able to score even 92pts consistently w/o him) for Tyson Chandler. Yes I acknowledge Tyson is an elite lane clogger, but giving up Jose for him would be way too much (akin to all the other bullshit moves Bryan has made under the guise of trying to improve us) as we'd be giving up Jose's leadership & elite offensive execution/creativity for an elite lane clogger who may or may not help us get in the playoffs (most likely wouldn't; tank nation), but would surely make for more boring basketball, and thus fans not even bothering to attend like how Kevin O'Neill had made our team in his one year w/us.


Anyways, look at Andrea's play in each of the following and feel free to jog up your memories and ponder:


NBA - Chicago Bulls/Toronto Raptors Box Score Wednesday February 23, 2011 - Yahoo! Canada Sports
Oklahoma City at Toronto | Friday December 3, 2010 | NBA - Yahoo! Sports

NBA - Denver Nuggets/Toronto Raptors Box Score Friday March 26, 2010 - Yahoo! Canada Sports
NBA - Atlanta Hawks/Toronto Raptors Box Score Wednesday March 17, 2010 - Yahoo! Canada Sports
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxsc...gid=2010030913
NBA - Los Angeles Lakers/Toronto Raptors Box Score Sunday January 24, 2010 - Yahoo! Canada Sports
NBA - Toronto Raptors/Chicago Bulls Box Score Saturday December 5, 2009 - Yahoo! Canada Sports
NBA - Miami Heat/Toronto Raptors Box Score Friday November 20, 2009 - Yahoo! Canada Sports

I saw each one of those games (and they were all very memorable, unlike most of the shit here in 10-11), each against good-to-great teams, and Andrea had good rebounding & laneclogging games in each, unto us winning all of those games or losing in the last minute or so. And he played most of his burn at center in each of those games, only switching assignments w/Chris now & then.

W/Andrea's ball IQ, fundamentals, size, wingspan, athleticism, and competitiveness, I'm 100% positive he can average 8-9rpg in 34mpg year in, year out as a center. Keep in mind those weren't 'lucky' rebounding totals in the boxscores I've provided. He was using solid fundamental positioning to get all of those defensive rebounds while going up against some very physical big men. Those are juss examples from 09-10 & 10-11. I'm sure there are more from previous years.

Once again, its hard for Andrea and the rest of the guys to prove how truly good they really are (both as individual players and as a unit; ditto Coach Triano & staff) when Bryan's clear & concise direction is tank nation (ie-how many games did we lose simply based on not giving decent effort, this past season? And in previous years too!) and other politicizing. There's clearly something going on behind the scenes which the media doesn't want to address (ie- politricks and similar gamesmanship fucking over the game, more specifically our team & franchise). At least not yet, anyway.

And that's my contribution to this thread!
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:50 AM   #107 (permalink)
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@ BladeofBG

+1

The regression of Bargnani should be noticed. He played decent to good in early season. Many times he has been player of the game. Than Reggie went down and it was evident we would have to tank. So, like pointed out we lost some games (and at the end most of us WANTED them to loose) and we lost them through weak effort.

Immagine if the mission for our team has been to get a high lottery pick. How can you accomplish this? Right, giving a F*** and loosing games ^^.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:43 AM   #108 (permalink)
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@ BladeofBG

+1

The regression of Bargnani should be noticed. He played decent to good in early season. Many times he has been player of the game. Than Reggie went down and it was evident we would have to tank. So, like pointed out we lost some games (and at the end most of us WANTED them to loose) and we lost them through weak effort.

Immagine if the mission for our team has been to get a high lottery pick. How can you accomplish this? Right, giving a F*** and loosing games ^^.
HM?
we lost games this season due to weak effort? and it was evident we would have to tank after reggie went down?
thats like the one positive people have been saying about this years team is that despite the lack of talent and losing record, this team still competes and plays hard to Triano.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:59 AM   #109 (permalink)
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HM?
we lost games this season due to weak effort? and it was evident we would have to tank after reggie went down?
thats like the one positive people have been saying about this years team is that despite the lack of talent and losing record, this team still competes and plays hard to Triano.
The team played hard with Mitchell too. Its always been defence the team has been lacking. The only positive this season is the progression of Demar Derozan and the promise of Ed Davis. Also, the team has some solid role players like Amir Johnson, James Johnson and Bayless. Lets keep these players and allow them to develop and play together, grab some draft picks, and get a veternan coach who can actually teach some defense.
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:32 AM   #110 (permalink)
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The team played hard with Mitchell too. Its always been defence the team has been lacking. The only positive this season is the progression of Demar Derozan and the promise of Ed Davis. Also, the team has some solid role players like Amir Johnson, James Johnson and Bayless. Lets keep these players and allow them to develop and play together, grab some draft picks, and get a veternan coach who can actually teach some defense.
but this years team was 3rd worst in franchise history. but anyways, the point was that i disagreed with the post above that said we were forced into a tanking situation when reggie went down and we lost games because of weak effort.

even if it were true that his team gave no effort, would you blame them? how would you play if you knew going into a game you were going to lose? but instead they competed and thats all you can really ask for.

its also ridiculous to believe that BC gave orders to Triano to tank and then Triano told his team to tank. its really unprofessional and all it takes is for one person to be against it to create some controversy and there hasn't been the smallest of news about this to even hint this was what happened.
its just something most fans cheered for in a season with little to cheer for. doesn't mean that was the organizations plan, it just worked out that way.
PS: if they were ordered to lose on purpose you think they would do a better job than be the 3rd worst team in the NBA eh? or you think we can't even tank right?

Last edited by powerfulpanda; 04-20-2011 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:37 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Yes, Bosh is carrying that team! Come on.

Replace Bosh with Bargnani on the heat and they still sweep Philly..... don't use that series as your point of reference. If they win the championship, I will become a Bosh supporter.

And as much as you think BC will only be looking to move AB, I'm certain that he feels Tyson Chandler would have made Bargnani look better than Bosh.

Using Miami as a barometer is foolish.... it's absolutely not a fair or relevant comparison.
Lol.... put Bargs on the Heat and he'd be riding the pine. MAYBE coming in for 15-20 min/gm to spread the floor.

Believe it or not, Miami's best defensive lineup INCLUDES Bosh on the floor. Anthony. Bosh. James. Wade. Chalmers.

Add in the fact that he can shoot from the outside AND get to the line AND rebound the ball.... and I'd say that he's a pretty integral part of the Heat team.
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:18 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Lol.... put Bargs on the Heat and he'd be riding the pine. MAYBE coming in for 15-20 min/gm to spread the floor.

Believe it or not, Miami's best defensive lineup INCLUDES Bosh on the floor. Anthony. Bosh. James. Wade. Chalmers.

Add in the fact that he can shoot from the outside AND get to the line AND rebound the ball.... and I'd say that he's a pretty integral part of the Heat team.
sure. yes, he'd be on the bench.... in favour of?

Wade and James are the reason that team is awesome defensively. It's just like NY being able to play fantastic D when they feel like it with Amare and Melo....
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:58 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Do you really think a team will not tank on purpose, in a system that rewards the worst teams (they get the better picks) and puts on disadvantage the teams that miss barely the playoffs?
Why we was not able to tank better?
First: we had a good start (approx first 25 games)
Second: there where some young guns that dont like to loose
Third: other teams can tank as well (minnesota was on full tank mode)
Fourth: loosing close games is not an indicator that you fought, but perhaps you lost on purpose a game winnable, while the blowouts are simply against better teams that you cant compete with.
Fifth: fortunately at least Bargs accomplished to the tank nation, showing poor effort from around game 40 to the end, otherwise we would have had pick 7-9 instead of pick 3-5 (pessimisticaly seen).
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:51 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Do you really think a team will not tank on purpose, in a system that rewards the worst teams (they get the better picks) and puts on disadvantage the teams that miss barely the playoffs?
Why we was not able to tank better?
First: we had a good start (approx first 25 games)
Second: there where some young guns that dont like to loose
Third: other teams can tank as well (minnesota was on full tank mode)
Fourth: loosing close games is not an indicator that you fought, but perhaps you lost on purpose a game winnable, while the blowouts are simply against better teams that you cant compete with.
Fifth: fortunately at least Bargs accomplished to the tank nation, showing poor effort from around game 40 to the end, otherwise we would have had pick 7-9 instead of pick 3-5 (pessimisticaly seen).
you said it yourself. we have young guys that don't like to lose. so if they were instructed to tank don't u think someone would have done something about it?! like, stood up to the coach and say no we're not losing on purpose. instead there was nothing like that all season

losing close games means you were trying to lose on purpose against winnable opponents?

your telling me, Bargnani gave effort up to game 40 but was following orders from BC to tank so thats the reason for his poor effort?
LOL, now i know you don't what ur talking about
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:07 PM   #115 (permalink)
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you said it yourself. we have young guys that don't like to lose. so if they were instructed to tank don't u think someone would have done something about it?! like, stood up to the coach and say no we're not losing on purpose. instead there was nothing like that all season

losing close games means you were trying to lose on purpose against winnable opponents?

your telling me, Bargnani gave effort up to game 40 but was following orders from BC to tank so thats the reason for his poor effort?
LOL, now i know you don't what ur talking about
Perhaps its my bad english, but i would like it, if you read better what i have written.

I have never written the coach told the squad to loose, also i have never written BC told the coach or the players to loose.

I think ppl here have a very selective memory:
Bargs played well for a portion of the season, than he lost himself. Its not that someone has to tell him: hey now we tank. He realized that the playoffs was not in reach and thought to go on with less effort
The young guns wanted to compete, and some of the better games (effort wise) came as Bargs (and Calderon to some extend) was sidelined due to injury
Between game 45 and 60 approx there were many games where all across the board was a crying about the poor effort almost the entire team was putting on the floor.

So my thoughts are: the team FELT that the playoffs was out of reach and didnt fight so much, till the end, as the young guns take over (with little success, but with good effort).
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:40 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Like Colangelo said a few days ago, we could have made the playoffs at the cost of our future. I think he made the right choice and “tanked” this year in order to properly rebuild this team the way it should be done. People forget that if the bobcat trade went down our roster would be.

Tyson Chandler – 10.1 PPG , 9.4 RPG
Andrea Bargnani – 21.4 PPG , 5.2 RPG
Boris Diaw - 11.3 PPG, 5.0 RPG
Deman Derozan – 17.2 PPG, 3.8 RPG
Jerryd Bayless - 9.2 PPG, 2.5 APG

Add 2 first round picks to play with, and Ed Davis who is easily in the top 10 rookies this year and this team is dramatically better and have more than enough assets to move around to add key players to make the playoff push. I hope Coangelo does return and finish what he started, but I have a feeling the organization is really considering other options at this point.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:04 PM   #117 (permalink)
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I highly doubt Jack would've been traded had Jose been traded first, so it's not a shoo-in that Bayless becomes a Raptor.
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