Colangelo's Year End News Conference - Page 2
Old 04-18-2011, 03:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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If we happened to get a traditional center, we'll see Davis and Amir coming off the bench playing some center. Reggie is most likely the first to go, even though the fans love him, he will not advance us because he is not an offensive threat. When our team is on offensive and Reggie is on the the court it's like 4 on 5 ha.
Yuck. The best hopes for this team are with Davis starting, and Amir being a key piece with good minutes. If anybody needs to come off the bench it's Andrea, and there shouldn't be a big concern if it's at the 4 or 5. This team needs to stop trying to accommodate this guy. The team is developing, and it doesn't appear to be happening with the mago as any kind of centerpiece. At this point they'd be crazy to have anyone take a hit as the odd man out for the sake of Bargnani.
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I'm sure when Andrea has ever been accommodated for. When Bosh was here, they were always accommodating Bosh, which forced Andrea to play Center. Last season, Andrea was once again forced to play center, and nothing was accommodated for this guy. He took most of the blame for the defence because people expected a Ben Wallace type center, and that's not what Andrea is known for.

So you would start Davis and Amir over Andrea? I think that's being a little pessimistic toward Andrea. We would have no threat in the post, which would make teams be able to focus more on Demar in their defence. Look at the great teams, they all have at least one offensive big man as a threat in their lineup. Andrea just need some of the pressure relieved which BC has mentioned, right now he's under a microscope because we all are expecting like 25-10, truth is, that'll most likely never happen. If we don't get something of equal value in return offensively, then I can't imagine Davis, Amir or Reggie making up for the offense he puts up and how he spreads the floor.
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm sure when Andrea has ever been accommodated for. When Bosh was here, they were always accommodating Bosh, which forced Andrea to play Center. Last season, Andrea was once again forced to play center, and nothing was accommodated for this guy. He took most of the blame for the defence because people expected a Ben Wallace type center, and that's not what Andrea is known for.
Dude, Andrea has been spoon fed ever since he was drafted. Go back to 2006, BC and Gherardhini both claimed Andrea was going to be their future center. Both said he weighed 250 at the time of the draft and his body was going to be developped. BC traded for Rasho so Bargnani didn't have start and Rasho can play against the Centers. The pick-up of Garbo helped because he was veteran presence (I think former teammate) and spoke Italian which would help with his transition in Canada. Bargnani also had his mentor Gherardhini as assistant GM. Bargnani struggled big time in second season and the Raptors got trounced by Howard in the playoffs. So the Raps trade for Jo to help with the center position and because the Raps needed help in scoring. Look it up, Bargnani was drafted to become the next center for the Raptors. Its not the franchise fault he hasn't progressed enough to guard the center position. Besides, who guarded the centers this year, it was Amir and Ed Davis, not Bargnani!!
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:32 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm sure when Andrea has ever been accommodated for. When Bosh was here, they were always accommodating Bosh, which forced Andrea to play Center. Last season, Andrea was once again forced to play center, and nothing was accommodated for this guy. He took most of the blame for the defence because people expected a Ben Wallace type center, and that's not what Andrea is known for.

So you would start Davis and Amir over Andrea? I think that's being a little pessimistic toward Andrea. We would have no threat in the post, which would make teams be able to focus more on Demar in their defence. Look at the great teams, they all have at least one offensive big man as a threat in their lineup. Andrea just need some of the pressure relieved which BC has mentioned, right now he's under a microscope because we all are expecting like 25-10, truth is, that'll most likely never happen. If we don't get something of equal value in return offensively, then I can't imagine Davis, Amir or Reggie making up for the offense he puts up and how he spreads the floor.
So Andrea is a threat in the post? And he is invaluable in that he is able to spread the floor? Here's an idea - we stop accommodating a big that refuses to play defense, and doesn't play particularly aggressively on offense, by giving him a spot on the starting lineup and the minutes to go with it. We stop playing games where we rely on jumpshots from our 7 footer, and focus on what any team that wins can depend on every game - defense.

Stop making out like this guy is a natural first option on offense, and therefore irreplaceable. It was pretty clear all last season that we had no definitive first option, and that when Andrea was forced to accept that role he couldn't prove to be reliable. If he is going to have any value going forward, it is going to be in a more limited role - on this team at least.

We are going to have a good pick in the draft. We have tradable assets beyond Andrea. There will be every chance in the world of developing offensive gameplans. And I would love to see a good deal of easy transition baskets coming off of strong defensive play.
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Dude, Andrea has been spoon fed ever since he was drafted. Go back to 2006, BC and Gherardhini both claimed Andrea was going to be their future center. Both said he weighed 250 at the time of the draft and his body was going to be developped. BC traded for Rasho so Bargnani didn't have start and Rasho can play against the Centers. The pick-up of Garbo helped because he was veteran presence (I think former teammate) and spoke Italian which would help with his transition in Canada. Bargnani also had his mentor Gherardhini as assistant GM. Bargnani struggled big time in second season and the Raptors got trounced by Howard in the playoffs. So the Raps trade for Jo to help with the center position and because the Raps needed help in scoring. Look it up, Bargnani was drafted to become the next center for the Raptors. Its not the franchise fault he hasn't progressed enough to guard the center position. Besides, who guarded the centers this year, it was Amir and Ed Davis, not Bargnani!!
that's not completely factual.... AB has guarded centers this year, though they somewhat treated all three of AB, AJ and ED as 4's at various times. Also, when a prospect is drafted, it isn't as clear as you're making it in terms of how a player will develop.....
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:34 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Kinda off topic but people over on nbadraft seem to be hating on BC right now
Bryan Colengelo-Massive Idiot | NBADraft.net
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:36 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Yeah he is playing his unnatural position, at center. This guys a PF/SF at times. When he played for Benetton he mostly played the PF position. Dude, they trade for JO, and Andrea came off the bench behind him until JO got injured if I recall. Dude is not a center, and never will be a center. Do you see Dirk being able to handle the position? I know he's not good on defence, but I think getting rid of him right now will be a bad idea, especially if we just want to try and get defence, because he is our leading scorer, and spreads the floor the most on offense. Who else calls for double teams on this team?

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Old 04-18-2011, 04:42 PM   #28 (permalink)
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that's not completely factual.... AB has guarded centers this year, though they somewhat treated all three of AB, AJ and ED as 4's at various times. Also, when a prospect is drafted, it isn't as clear as you're making it in terms of how a player will develop.....
Watch the games over again, Its Amir And Davis getting the big chunk of games and minutes against the centers. BC drafted Andrea with full intention/goal that he will become the next franchise center. It didn't work out.
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Yeah the is playing his unnatural position, at center. This guys a PF/SF at times. When he played for Benetton he mostly played the PF position. Dude, they trade for JO, and Andrea came off the bench behind him until JO got injured if I recall. Dude is not a center, and never will be a center. Do you see Dirk being able to handle position? I know he's not good on defence, but I think getting rid of him right now will be a bad idea, especially if we just want to try and get defence, because he is our leading scorer, and spreads the floor the most on offense. Who else calls for double teams on this team?
Derozan. ANd there are things called screens and cuts that can be used to get open shots - you know - making use of all five guys on the court.

Andrea is nowhere close to being Dirk. Dirk can handle playing positionally and take on quicker power forwards. Andrea gets blown by and tends not to recognize where he should be. He really has no natural position on the defensive end.

He's our leading scorer? So was Mike James. How on earth were they able to replace that guy?
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:49 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Yeah he is playing his unnatural position, at center. This guys a PF/SF at times.
Dude, Andrea has been playing the PF position the whole season. On offense, Andrea is not battling on the block. He gets the majority of touches outside the paint, where the majority of the time he jacks up a shot or sometimes drives to the rim. Its Amir, Davis and Ed Davis, battling in the paint and fighting for rebounds on offense. Like I said before, Its Amir And Davis getting the bulk of the minutes guarding the centers on the other team on defense.

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Old 04-18-2011, 05:28 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Watch the games over again, Its Amir And Davis getting the big chunk of games and minutes against the centers. BC drafted Andrea with full intention/goal that he will become the next franchise center. It didn't work out.
I've watched enough games... thanks. They've all spent time guarding 4's and 5's.

Who cares what the goal was if it's all part of a guessing game at that stage of a player's development? If you disagree, fine... but I'd suggest that if it wasn't a guessing game for the most part, then guys like Morrison, S.Williams, Tyrus Thomas wouldn't have been taken in the top 5. Positionally, AB is a 4/5, like alot of players these days. The lines are blurred.
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:32 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Derozan. ANd there are things called screens and cuts that can be used to get open shots - you know - making use of all five guys on the court.

Andrea is nowhere close to being Dirk. Dirk can handle playing positionally and take on quicker power forwards. Andrea gets blown by and tends not to recognize where he should be. He really has no natural position on the defensive end.

He's our leading scorer? So was Mike James. How on earth were they able to replace that guy?
lots of our players get blown by consistently... though I agree he's not near Dirk.... he's also half the price.
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:34 PM   #33 (permalink)
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The lines are blurred.
i'd argue that, more than just blurred, these lines don't exist anymore. you could say that there are power bigs and finesse bigs, and that both can come at almost any height. blair is a power big, as is reggie, even though both are not very tall. andrea is a finesse big, despite being 7 feet. some are able to do both. guys like that are uncommon.

who cares what their position is? - it may even differ between offense and defense. a team needs both kinds to be effective, and who they guard on the court is a matter of matchups, not of position.

bargs is neither a pf or a c. he is a finesse big, and needs to be alongside power bigs to be successful. and the raps, if they are to keep him, need a couple of power bigs so that he doesn't have to be on the court without one.
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:48 PM   #34 (permalink)
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i'd argue that, more than just blurred, these lines don't exist anymore. you could say that there are power bigs and finesse bigs, and that both can come at almost any height. blair is a power big, as is reggie, even though both are not very tall. andrea is a finesse big, despite being 7 feet. some are able to do both. guys like that are uncommon.

who cares what their position is? - it may even differ between offense and defense. a team needs both kinds to be effective, and who they guard on the court is a matter of matchups, not of position.

bargs is neither a pf or a c. he is a finesse big, and needs to be alongside power bigs to be successful. and the raps, if they are to keep him, need a couple of power bigs so that he doesn't have to be on the court without one.
bingo - my only problem is that even with someone to take care of Andrea's deficiencies, the team will tend to be operating from a position of trying to solve a key weakness, rather than build upon strengths as a 5-man unit.
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:50 PM   #35 (permalink)
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bingo - my only problem is that even with someone to take care of Andrea's deficiencies, the team will tend to be operating from a position of trying to solve a key weakness, rather than build upon strengths as a 5-man unit.
same thing happens if you have two power bigs - who's going to score? as long as all of your guys are not 2-way players (a rarity) you will always be covering weaknesses.
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:51 PM   #36 (permalink)
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i'd argue that, more than just blurred, these lines don't exist anymore. you could say that there are power bigs and finesse bigs, and that both can come at almost any height. blair is a power big, as is reggie, even though both are not very tall. andrea is a finesse big, despite being 7 feet. some are able to do both. guys like that are uncommon.

who cares what their position is? - it may even differ between offense and defense. a team needs both kinds to be effective, and who they guard on the court is a matter of matchups, not of position.

bargs is neither a pf or a c. he is a finesse big, and needs to be alongside power bigs to be successful. and the raps, if they are to keep him, need a couple of power bigs so that he doesn't have to be on the court without one.
+1
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:54 PM   #37 (permalink)
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same thing happens if you have two power bigs - who's going to score? as long as all of your guys are not 2-way players (a rarity) you will always be covering weaknesses.
perfect example of this was the Celtics with Perkins and Garnett..... they were awesome defensively, but the Celtics laboured on offense much of the time... I haven't watched them much since, but two way players are the glue.... and we need more core guys to be such. DD needs to become one for this team to take a step forward.
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:57 PM   #38 (permalink)
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i think its safe to assume if we did bring in a center for bargnani, one of amir or ed would be gone.. really hope not ed

im still mixed as to whether im ready for us to move on from Bargnani to try and let him play with a center.. the nowitzki case of playing with true centers (dampier, haywood, chandler) is a good point, Bargnani hasn't really been able to have that benefit..

based on the text tho it would make me believe BC is not only open to trading Bargnani but will be pursuing it.
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Old 04-18-2011, 06:10 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Rest in peace Colangelo's tenure in Toronto. It's been fun.
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Old 04-18-2011, 06:11 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Here is video of the press conference:

Bryan Colangelo Year-End News Conference - Apr. 18, 2011 | Raptors
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