Colangelo: Raps trying to land another top 10 pick - Page 3
Old 06-09-2011, 09:37 AM   #41 (permalink)
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All i have to say to those who were preaching that the raps blow games to get a better draft position is you were wrong.
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:38 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Pray for a lockout and grab one for next years draft that way we can get double screwed on the lottery (is there a lottery if theres a lockout?) twice and blame it on being rigged! lol
There us no official procedure for a draft during a lockout, as by definition there are no rules in place during that time period. However, in the past, in the NBA and other leagues, a draft following a lockout year is usually done on an equal-opportunity basis - instead of the top 3 picks being selected by lottery, they all are. And each team has an equal number of ping pong balls (say one each, although a larger number is usually used to improve the 'randomness' of the process). So, every team is equally likely to get any pick. However, if the lockout ends before the draft takes place, an agreement will likely be come to between league and players in negotiations - or better yet, if a partial season is played, the lottery would likely operate as usual.
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:54 AM   #43 (permalink)
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All i have to say to those who were preaching that the raps blow games to get a better draft position is you were wrong.
Oh, so you'd rather have the 7th or 9th pick? Who are you, Colangelo?
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:57 PM   #44 (permalink)
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There us no official procedure for a draft during a lockout, as by definition there are no rules in place during that time period. However, in the past, in the NBA and other leagues, a draft following a lockout year is usually done on an equal-opportunity basis - instead of the top 3 picks being selected by lottery, they all are. And each team has an equal number of ping pong balls (say one each, although a larger number is usually used to improve the 'randomness' of the process). So, every team is equally likely to get any pick. However, if the lockout ends before the draft takes place, an agreement will likely be come to between league and players in negotiations - or better yet, if a partial season is played, the lottery would likely operate as usual.
I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but I feel compelled to ask for some clarification. When did the NBA ever have a full year lockout followed by a draft in which every team had an equal chance at all picks?

On the point of constructing a draft methodology after a full season lockout, the 2005 NHL draft is the most recent example I can recall from any of the major pro-sports leagues.

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As a lockout cancelled the 2004–05 NHL season, the draft order was determined by lottery on July 22, 2005. Teams were assigned 1 to 3 balls based on their playoff appearances and first overall draft picks from the past three years. According to the draft order, the selection worked its way up to 30 as usual; then instead of repeating the order as in past years, the draft "snaked" back down to the team with the first pick. Therefore the team with the first pick overall would not pick again until the 60th pick. The team with the 30th pick would also get the 31st pick.
If the NBA had a full season lockout, I hope they would do something similar to the NHL. That seems somewhat fair. The Raps would probably avoid getting totally screwed, because Toronto has missed the playoffs the past 3 seasons. The Raps would have a decent chance at another top 5 pick, at least much better than if the draft was designed so that each team had an equal opportunity for every pick.

Last edited by Bill Haverchuck; 06-09-2011 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 06-09-2011, 03:05 PM   #45 (permalink)
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All i have to say to those who were preaching that the raps blow games to get a better draft position is you were wrong.
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Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Oh, so you'd rather have the 7th or 9th pick? Who are you, Colangelo?
I agree. There a one or two teams that move up several spots every lottery. However, how does Washington and Sacramento feel about the Raps when those two teams went on a bit of a win streak at the end of the season. At least the Raptors will have a choice of Kemba or Knight at 5 if they are looking for a point guard. Sacramento is hoping Kemba drops to them at 7.
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:21 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck View Post
I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but I feel compelled to ask for some clarification. When did the NBA ever have a full year lockout followed by a draft in which every team had an equal chance at all picks?

On the point of constructing a draft methodology after a full season lockout, the 2005 NHL draft is the most recent example I can recall from any of the major pro-sports leagues.



If the NBA had a full season lockout, I hope they would do something similar to the NHL. That seems somewhat fair. The Raps would probably avoid getting totally screwed, because Toronto has missed the playoffs the past 3 seasons. The Raps would have a decent chance at another top 5 pick, at least much better than if the draft was designed so that each team had an equal opportunity for every pick.
You are quite right - I don't know how NBA got there - I certainly intended to type NHL. And thank you for the clarification on the post-lockout draft - for some reason I completely misremembered the details. Anyway, I agree - this system would work well for the Raps, having missed the playoffs the past three years.
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:38 PM   #47 (permalink)
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i don't say that will happen, but i think if we trade barg + tpe and grab a top 10 pick + a bad contract, we can do it, because of the flexibilitie we have next year.

bargs + tpe
for
(suns) Carter + 13th + first 2012

those are just example, not trade proposal.
i don't think jazz cleveland and minny would take Bargs in exchange for their top 4 pick.
Are you Mental?
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Old 06-10-2011, 05:31 PM   #48 (permalink)
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for a rebuilding team draft picks is 1 of the best things to have, and on this team where free agents don't really pick as their top destination it makes the draft picks even more valuable, but do we really want to get another pick in a supposedly really weak draft class?
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Old 06-10-2011, 05:59 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Has anyone considered at what point you have enough picks and young assets to form your own big 3 through trades like the Boston Celtics did? I don't remember all the details of Boston's trades but it turned them from a crap team to an instant contender and a destination.

And I didn't hear a thing about those players complaining.
Better still, players did not leave their own teams high and dry by sneaking around and leaving out the back door. So when those players left, they were not hated by their former teams.
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:25 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Has anyone considered at what point you have enough picks and young assets to form your own big 3 through trades like the Boston Celtics did? I don't remember all the details of Boston's trades but it turned them from a crap team to an instant contender and a destination.

And I didn't hear a thing about those players complaining.
Better still, players did not leave their own teams high and dry by sneaking around and leaving out the back door. So when those players left, they were not hated by their former teams.
A few things:

Boston traded the a high pick in a deep draft. We haven't had that luxury.

Two, a lot, and I mean a lot of people ripped Boston on making that trade because it gutted them. I believe they dealt Jefferson, Delonte and Telfair (plus more) and they went in with a 2nd year PG in Rondo who NO ONE thought was any good.

They win because Rondo developed into something and they were able to grab Sam Cassell for the stretch run in the playoffs.
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:36 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Boston was also an extremely desirable location beforehand due to their history. Like with everything, they needed to show they could win. KG had to be convinced to go, with Allen being the piece that tipped him in favor of it.

And one thing remains true now as was suspected then - it was going to be all for the short term, sacrificing the long term.

For a team like the Raptors, building with youth and looking for long term stability would be the more desirable path in my eyes.

Last edited by LX; 06-10-2011 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:39 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Yep LX.

Really the model we should be looking at is OKC, Portland and even Chicago.
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:41 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Yep LX.

Really the model we should be looking at is OKC, Portland and even Chicago.
Not to mention San Antonio, and I mean going back to before Duncan.
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Old 06-10-2011, 10:09 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Agreed.
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Old 06-10-2011, 11:21 PM   #55 (permalink)
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with this team we have to get as many attempts in the drafts to get star players to make a big 3, free agents aren't going to flock here like a lot of other locations, even trades for star players don't often happen because behind closed doors the star player gets a say in the place he is traded to, and if he's unhappy with the trade you usually see it in his play on the court
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Old 06-11-2011, 07:05 AM   #56 (permalink)
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That's how the Blazers improved, moved up and drafted a couple goodin's.

That's also how the Timberwolves haven't improved, moved up and drafted sqaddoosh.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:11 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Teams that have great fanchises have stable front offices and clear vision of what they want to achieve. We frankly have lacked this from the beginning with Isiah being more of a 'Cult' leader (focused on whats good for him and not the franchise) than a selfless leader. Egomaniacs are often found in leadership roles, but rarely create low-term sustaining great franchises given it's built around their brilliance only ...
While I like BC, he is basically more focused on his image. He has a chance to change given he's still fairly young .. time will tell.
If you read the book ... 'Good to Great' ... you will know what I mean.
Basketball franchises are no different than any company ... it's all about the people.

Last edited by Carlito; 06-11-2011 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:22 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Oh, so you'd rather have the 7th or 9th pick? Who are you, Colangelo?
The Draft is a crap shoot.
What team has won a championship with the Draft?
Dont say Boston, because they did it the smart way. Players like Kobe/MJ/Lebron only come around once every 10 years or so.
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:07 AM   #59 (permalink)
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The Draft is a crap shoot.
What team has won a championship with the Draft?
Dont say Boston, because they did it the smart way. Players like Kobe/MJ/Lebron only come around once every 10 years or so.
spurs have won the championship with the draft, duncan, parker, ginobili are all from the draft
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:23 AM   #60 (permalink)
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spurs have won the championship with the draft, duncan, parker, ginobili are all from the draft
Like I said, its a crap shoot. Name me 2 other teams.
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