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Claudius 12-24-2011 12:42 PM

Colangelo learning the virtue of patience
 
Good article by Eric Koreen.

Quote:

Instead of chasing a free agent who could do much to alter that, Colangelo signed three players nearing the end of their careers (Jamaal Magloire, Rasual Butler and Anthony Carter) and two 20-somethings with no history of significant NBA success (Aaron Gray and Gary Forbes). Instead of drafting a marquee college player such as Kemba Walker to ignite a tired, beaten-down fan base, Colangelo selected Lithuanian centre Jonas Valanciunas with the No. 5 pick in the June draft. The centre cannot come to the Raptors until next year because of a pre-existing contract.

“Clearly there were players on the board that would have yielded instant gratification, or more potential instant gratification,” Colangelo said. “But this is about a long-term pick, and it clearly is the right long-term pick.”

For Colangelo’s Raptors, this is a major sea change. Bosh was a significant enough piece, in Colangelo’s eyes, to try to build around. He went from one extreme (defensive-minded centre O’Neal) to another (playmaking forward Turkoglu) in an attempt to do so, and he certainly failed in the process. But he felt as if he were only one move away from legitimate contention.

Obviously, the lack of a franchise fulcrum has been the biggest factor in changing that mindset, but it is not the only one. Truly competing for a championship now requires a sturdier foundation, something more than Bosh and parts ever could have been.

The NBA is full of teams with multiple superstars, and there is no shortcut to acquiring those types of players if you reside in the NBA hinterland. You either have to find a megastar in the draft (see: Oklahoma City and Kevin Durant) or acquire enough quality assets (again, usually through the draft) to turn them into a pillar through a trade.

That explains away the talent imbalance on this roster. Of the five most intriguing Raptors players, four (Andrea Bargnani, Ed Davis, Amir Johnson and Valanciunas) play up front. Logically, it would be very difficult to give all of those players the minutes they need to develop properly. The 2012 draft, as it figures, is particularly heavy on front-court players, which only complicates matters.

“It’s a stacking principle,” Colangelo said. “You want to have guys that are there at various positions, and even if there is [positional] duplication, you can decide which one fits best and move on and possibly move a piece and convert that into something else.”

It is another short-term problem that Colangelo hopes will become a long-term advantage
Quote:

Once upon a time, Colangelo bet on the evolution of the game. Now he is betting on three traditional building blocks of basketball success: a defensive emphasis, the regenerative powers of the draft and the positive effect of time on youth. As his team conforms to that transformation, the present will persist, with no months-long scouting trip in sight.
Toronto Raptors preview: Bryan Colangelo learning the virtue of patience | Sports | National Post

jeffb 12-24-2011 01:05 PM

:yeah:

bjjs 12-24-2011 10:19 PM

Quote:

“But this is about a long-term pick, and it clearly is the right long-term pick.”
Collangelo is such a frogkisser. Only an asshole or an idiot would make a quote like that.

I think it's the right pick, Valanciunas looks awesome but a sure thing he is not. I sure as hell hope BC isn't around to actually see if it is the right pick.

Please go away Bryan.

'trane 12-25-2011 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjjs (Post 590510)
Collangelo is such a frogkisser. Only an asshole or an idiot would make a quote like that.

I think it's the right pick, Valanciunas looks awesome but a sure think he is not. I sure as hell hope BC isn't around to actually see if it is the right pick.

Please go away Bryan.

i dunno. seems to me that he's just saying it is the right long-term pick because there appears to be upside and it is likely a better option than the instant gratification of guys that can play a bit now, but are clearly not difference makers. i think he's just saying that it was the right time to take a risk. it is not clear to me that he thinks jv is a sure thing.

bjjs 12-25-2011 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'trane (Post 590536)
i dunno. seems to me that he's just saying it is the right long-term pick because there appears to be upside and it is likely a better option than the instant gratification of guys that can play a bit now, but are clearly not difference makers. i think he's just saying that it was the right time to take a risk. it is not clear to me that he thinks jv is a sure thing.

He's saying all that but he's also saying that he clearly made the right decision. He clearly did his job once again, pefectly, no doubt, crystal clear.

I prefer my GMs with a little more modesty. Why is BC always selling, imo it's a sign of weakness.

jeffb 12-25-2011 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjjs (Post 590616)
He's saying all that but he's also saying that he clearly made the right decision. He clearly did his job once again, pefectly, no doubt, crystal clear.

I prefer my GMs with a little more modesty. Why is BC always selling, imo it's a sign of weakness.

Modesty, less selling? If that's what you expect from a GM.......:confused2:

bjjs 12-25-2011 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 590618)
Modesty, less selling? If that's what you expect from a GM.......:confused2:

It is.

Ego and selling the fanbase isn't a qualification of being a NBA GM, and it definitely isn't a inherent attribute.

jeffb 12-25-2011 02:54 PM

Quote:


Ego and selling the fanbase isn't a qualification of being a NBA GM
Sure it is. Every GM sells and has a major ass ego.

bjjs 12-25-2011 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 590625)
Sure it is. Every GM sells and has a major ass ego.

I disagree 100%. It's actually insulting to sell to your fan base. Good GMs let the product sell itself on the court.

jeffb 12-25-2011 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjjs (Post 590627)
I disagree 100%. It's actually insulting to sell to your fan base. Good GMs let the product sell itself on the court.

Every GM sells to a degree. To a much lesser extent if you're in one of the bigger markets.

Ligeia 12-25-2011 09:50 PM

Are there any examples of a GM that doesn't sell that you could cite? Or are we talking about your Platonic ideal?

LX 12-25-2011 10:52 PM

There are some nice subtle criticisms of the GM's past actions. Not looking to build a sturdy foundation first and foremost, but rather swinging from one extreme to another while betting on the game evolving. Bryan is selling, and he's selling a different version of himself. It doesn't speak to a high level of competence in my mind. Hopefully he really has the vision thing down now, or he should go away.

moremilk 12-25-2011 11:18 PM

The brand of basketball colangelo envisioned would have been a great thing had it worked. Unfortunately, it didn't and now we're back to a more conventional style. I would love to see one day a team like the suns dominating the league though.

As for the gm selling the team, not sure i understand the negative comments. Basketball is a massive retail business these days, one of the main job requirements of any gm is to sell the product. Of course, having a great star makes the job a lot easier, but ultimately you have to get fans to buy ina any roster, otherwise any rebuilding team would be doomed financially.

moremilk 12-25-2011 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 590743)
There are some nice subtle criticisms of the GM's past actions. Not looking to build a sturdy foundation first and foremost, but rather swinging from one extreme to another while betting on the game evolving. Bryan is selling, and he's selling a different version of himself. It doesn't speak to a high level of competence in my mind. Hopefully he really has the vision thing down now, or he should go away.

From these comments, the only conclusion one can take is that
A. You are very conservative and din't like thinking outside the box
B. If somebody makes a mistake, you'd rather see them persevere, rather than change direction
C. You don't like colangelo apriori and would complain regardless of what he does ...

LX 12-25-2011 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moremilk (Post 590747)
From these comments, the only conclusion one can take is that
A. You are very conservative and din't like thinking outside the box
B. If somebody makes a mistake, you'd rather see them persevere, rather than change direction
C. You don't like colangelo apriori and would complain regardless of what he does ...

Once again I need to ask you to go back and read again. I said hopefully he's truly acquired a sense of pursuing a vision based on good principles, so yeah, obviously I'd like to see a change when required. But that's almost like getting a new GM with no experience. It doesn't instil enormous amounts of confidence. But hopeful I remain. And I always think ownership and the coaching make up the parts that set the direction of the team, along with the GM. It's never just on one guy.

I don't know what you're going on about under the A. You can think outside the box and still look to build a strong foundation above all else.

And not liking Colangelo a priori? Yeah, just based on the way his mother spelled his name with a Y when she brought him into this world cemented my automatic disgust of his very existence. Had he been a cheese maker I would have vomited at the very thought of ingesting his gruyer.

Give me a break, and please do read a little more carefully.

Ligeia 12-26-2011 12:46 AM

For what it's worth, I do think that Colangelo has a tendency to oversell, but I agree with Jeff that every GM sells and is asked to do so by the organization. I'd be willing to bet that the top of the organization considers Colangelo's selling an asset. For fans, it's a bit different story, but I see the pragmatism behind it.

I think the unfortunate thing about Colangelo's vision is that it never really came to fruition. If it weren't for some bad breaks, the Suns could've been NBA champs a couple of times. You see how the league has become increasingly focused on guard play and pace. Yet he left Phoenix and came to Toronto where he never really put that same vision into practice, perhaps because of the talent on hand. Now the league has made rule changes to re-emphasize defense, and out of absolute necessity he will have to go the traditional route to build this team.

Superjudge 12-26-2011 10:10 AM

I love when the super brains on here speak from a higher basketball position than the guys that run, or play for nba teams.

Unbelievable

:chuck:

jeffb 12-26-2011 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 590827)
I love when the super brains on here speak from a higher basketball position than the guys that run, or play for nba teams.

Unbelievable

:chuck:

Uhhhhm, it's a forum. What else would you expect?

TORaptor4Ever 12-26-2011 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjjs (Post 590627)
I disagree 100%. It's actually insulting to sell to your fan base. Good GMs let the product sell itself on the court.

I agree.... Unfortunately, these days (and particularly in this market) you're going to have to have a GM who's skilled in playing the politician because people are incredibly impatient and rarely understand the big picture.

What BC is saying now is essentially what Babcock said back in the day. Problem is Babcock was a nerd, so no on took him seriously. BC may not have any more practical knowledge but he certainly has the air of a confident man about him.

jeffb 12-26-2011 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 590869)
I agree.... Unfortunately, these days (and particularly in this market) you're going to have to have a GM who's skilled in playing the politician because people are incredibly impatient and rarely understand the big picture.

What BC is saying now is essentially what Babcock said back in the day. Problem is Babcock was a nerd, so no on took him seriously. BC may not have any more practical knowledge but he certainly has the air of a confident man about him.


No no more practical knowlege? Come on, Babcock being a nerd was the least of his problems. The guy was simply put inexperienced and in over his head. What has he done since?


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