Colangelo the Con Artist - Page 2
Old 03-01-2011, 01:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
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tj looked like a great sign before the injury, unless you're going to blame that on colangelo, you have no right to complain. Sure, TJ had a higher risk than other players, but nothing like the risk Portland took with roy, or Indiana with Granger, and both those moves were applauded and envied by Toronto fans.

Everything that happened in the past two years is as much on Colangelo as it's on Bosh, JO and Hedu were semi-desperate moves intended to speed-up the building process to appease Bosh. The original plan was for us to have cap space in 2010, the big free agent year. If Toronto was Miami, we could have had a big 3 of ourselves now ...
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:41 PM   #22 (permalink)
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BIGGEST AND DUMBEST MISTAKE WAS KEEPING (NOT TRADING) BOSH. YOU JUST DON'T BUILD AROUND A SOFTIE LIKE BOSH, HOW HARD WAS THAT TO REALIZE???
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:43 PM   #23 (permalink)
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BIGGEST AND DUMBEST MISTAKE WAS KEEPING (NOT TRADING) BOSH. YOU JUST DON'T BUILD AROUND A SOFTIE LIKE BOSH, HOW HARD WAS THAT TO REALIZE???
Softie? Aren't you a Bargnani fan?
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:24 PM   #24 (permalink)
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being an NBA general manager is hard.
Yep meanwhile being an armchair GM is easy as pie.
---------

As pissed as I am that Colangelo hasn't built a dynasty here, he's made for the most part smart, sensible moves the while time he's been here. Our cap situation has gone from ok to solid to quite good; the only two blemishes on our salary right now are Calderon being overpaid (making ~$20M next year and the year after that) and Kleize on the hook for $4.6 million for each of the next three seasons - and that's only become a stinky contract since he's been injured.

Next year, assuming we resign Barbosa, we'll be at $52M in contracts, putting us in the bottom 5-10 of the league.

-----

The biggest problem I guess with our team is that our glaring weakness of defense has been a problem during Colangelo's whole tenure (maybe less of an issue in the year we went 47-35), and hasn't been fixed despite adding defensive minded players (Johnson, Wright, James Johnson, Ed Davis) and Triano stressing defense before last season and the one before that.


The DeRozan pick is looking solid, the Davis pick looks like it has a high probability of working out, and the universally panned Amir Johnson signing is looking pretty decent right now as well. I will even defend the Bargnani signing. For what we're getting (22ppg), we're paying him fairly.


We lost Bosh last offseason, meaning we are down an all-star. That pretty much makes this a rebuilding year by default. We're pretty much playing a rebuilding year as you'd want to - frustratingly inconsistent, a couple flashes of brilliance, development of our youth. We had a slew of injuries early and we have a band enough record so far to get us a good pick. The last thing we want to do is turn the ship around right now! That's what this offseason is for!

-----------

This is a draft coming up that we can ill afford to fuck up. Right now we've got a core of, essentially, Calderon, DeRozan, James Johnson, Amir Johnson, Davis and Bargnani. Bayless hasn't shown me enough yet to be included in that list, but he is only 22 still!! For a rebuilding team, it could be worse! Every one of those guys is young; aside from Calderon everyone is 25 or under.
--------

A bad GM is one who makes bad decisions, hamstrings the team with very long albatross contracts (like Eddy Curry making $60 million over 6 years), trades great players for shitty players, etc. A good GM bats a good average on trades, makes very few mistakes and corrects the one he does make, is always active, gives the team a good reputation, etc.

Colangelo hits just about all of the bullet points. Do people forget so quickly that when Babcock was our GM we were essentially the laughing stock of the league?!

It's really hard to build a championship without a Kobe/LeBron/Dwight Howard/Chris Paul/Kevin Durant. We haven't had a chance to be in a situation to pick a player like that. If Colangelo would have picked Bargnani over Kevin Durant, then I'd be calilng for his head. However, picking Bargs in that draft year he did wasn't a bad move.

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Old 03-01-2011, 02:46 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Oh yeah and the Marcus Williams thing is low too - Colangelo was shopping around to get the 15th or 16th pick from someone dumping it to get Marcus Williams...

Ask 30 GM's what their opinion of Darko was on draft night - some will undoubtedly see with perfect 20/20 hindsight, but the honest ones will admit that they were all way too high on him than they should have been.

As for acquiring Marcus Williams with the 15th/16th pick in that draft, it's not like that would have been a catastrophic move either. Adam Morrison was picked with the third fucking pick in that draft!!!!!!!!!

Looking at the '06 draft, these picks all would have been different if they could turn back time:

#3 - Adam Morrison
#5 - Shelden Williams
#9 - Patrick O'Bryant
#10 - Saer Sene
#11 - JJ Redick
#12 - Hilton Armstrong
#15 - Cedric Simmons


Here's what Sports Illustrated said about Marcus Williams in the draft:

"Williams, the QB for UConn's juggernaut last season, might have been the best pure point guard prospect in the draft. He could be a valuable piece going forward as the replacement for Jason Kidd."

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Old 03-01-2011, 03:04 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Turk wasn't used properly.......that is all.....
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:09 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by highonpsi View Post
BIGGEST AND DUMBEST MISTAKE WAS KEEPING (NOT TRADING) BOSH. YOU JUST DON'T BUILD AROUND A SOFTIE LIKE BOSH, HOW HARD WAS THAT TO REALIZE???
PLease give me statistical, or anecdotal references to this statement.
Otherwise your just looking like a hater.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:12 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by b55bgc View Post
PLease give me statistical, or anecdotal references to this statement.
Otherwise your just looking like a hater.
2007-10?
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:20 PM   #29 (permalink)
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One thing I do agree with the article is why did he fire Sam only to replace him with Jay?
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:28 PM   #30 (permalink)
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One thing I do agree with the article is why did he fire Sam only to replace him with Jay?
he didn't think Sam was sending the right messages during practice and such..... hard to know what might that have been
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:31 PM   #31 (permalink)
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One thing I do agree with the article is why did he fire Sam only to replace him with Jay?
That's pretty much the only thing Colangelo has done that was, well..........stupid.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:59 PM   #32 (permalink)
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That's pretty much the only thing Colangelo has done that was, well..........stupid.
Last year we were in win-now mode, and it was probably smarter to hire a veteran coach.

As for now, I like jay. And I will not judge him until Colangelo puts some better defenders in our lineup.

Also, Jay has been awesome with DeMar.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:14 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Last year we were in win-now mode, and it was probably smarter to hire a veteran coach.

As for now, I like jay. And I will not judge him until Colangelo puts some better defenders in our lineup.

Also, Jay has been awesome with DeMar.
how has he been awesome with demar?
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:17 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Building around Bosh isn't easy especially if you're a small market team. BC has made some questionable moves but which GM hasn't? Now that Bosh is gone this is his team and we can finally see why he was the "executive of the year" or w.e. Did everyone forget how bad this teams management used to be? BC is probably the best GM we will ever attract.


and Rondo has said himself he would have been traded multiple times if he was on another team. He is lucky to have been drafted to a team full of vets & shooters that know how to play otherwise he wouldn't be half as effective since he can't do anything but pass. BC would have been fired if he drafted B-Roy and his bum ass knees.

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Old 03-01-2011, 04:51 PM   #35 (permalink)
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That bleacher report looks like is was written by someone under 21 with no life experience in anything except impatience and being spoiled. It kind of makes me sick.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:04 PM   #36 (permalink)
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how has he been awesome with demar?
lol

so Jay gets no credit for Bargs becoming a 22 ppg player from what his stats were under Sam... (no need to talk D cuz Bargs CANT play it for neither coach)

Jay gets no credit for development of DD this season and Davis having a fine rookie season most people here would agree with ...

Yes the defence has been CRAP but really who does this team have that can play D? There is NO COACH in the league that can teach Bargs better D... its not the coach its HIM he jus refuses to... Some other coaches may bench him but whats that get you? Benching your number 1 option because even after the benching he still wont play D

Take Triano and replace him with Doc rivers or Phill Jackson or any other coach... you get what.. maybe 1, 2 or 4 more wins?
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:10 PM   #37 (permalink)
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lol

so Jay gets no credit for Bargs becoming a 22 ppg player from what his stats were under Sam... (no need to talk D cuz Bargs CANT play it for neither coach)

Jay gets no credit for development of DD this season and Davis having a fine rookie season most people here would agree with ...
Bargnani has Bosh leaving to thank for his nearly 20 shots per game there. He could always score. Under Triano has he improved on D, at rebounding? In the areas he's always lacked in he hasn't got any better under Triano if anything he's regressed on D, blocking shots, rebounding.

Derozan, everyone always brags about his work on his own time with the trainers, and in the summer working on his own and with the trainers. Jay gets credit for giving him minutes, but his improvement imo is from his hard work on working on his shot.

I will agree Davis is having a fine rookie season, i'll give him some credit there.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:02 PM   #38 (permalink)
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BIGGEST AND DUMBEST MISTAKE WAS KEEPING (NOT TRADING) BOSH. YOU JUST DON'T BUILD AROUND A SOFTIE LIKE BOSH, HOW HARD WAS THAT TO REALIZE???
Dude, I don't really care about Bosh anymore, but who do you think is quietly holding Miami together a lot of nights?

Bosh is a little bit better than just some soft player.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:20 AM   #39 (permalink)
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The title of the article was bang-on, but the content of the article was completely misdirected.

These are the real reasons why Bryan is the biggest con-artist in the NBA, even surpassing the talk of Lebitch being as good as Kobe.

1) The summer of 2006 was wonderful, w/the only downer being the waste of money spent on Fred Jones. But the thing is Maurizio had a bigger hand in almost all the moves that were made (Andrea, Uros, & Garbo were all from Bennetton, AP signed here via familiarity w/Maurizio and having the same agent as Chris, Rasho has a history w/Bennetton and was out of favour in SAS, and TJ got here b/c of his friendship w/Chris from back in their days competing vs eachother in HS). Really, the only moves Bryan had a bigger hand than Maurizio were in Fred Jones, PJ Tucker, and Juan Dixon. Lets also remember that Maurizio was in connection w/MLSE since 2005, and Wayne Embry made the moves to set the stage to sign Bryan. Really, all the impact moves that got us in the '07 playoffs were by Maurizio, so he has more claim to the GM of the Year award that Bryan got that year.

2) The summer of 2007 is where it all starting going downhill, and everyone who decided to see things objectively instead of trusting Bryan, saw this coming.

The 1st hit was re-upping Smitch, even though he clearly had lost the locker room (the reason why we won 47gms that year was b/c of the players chemistry w/eachother, lead by Chris, TJ & MoPete doing what they can to make everyone better n develop, and AP, Garbo & Rasho's veteran leadership). For proof, look no further than the last game of the year, when TJ was singlehandedly bringing us back in the 4th Qtr of Gm6 vs NJN, shutting out JKidd and scoring from everywhere.......

....yet Smitch fucking sits him down for the last 2 minutes, even though TJ wasn't showing any signs of fatigue. It's easy to remember b/c even Swirsk made note of TJ talking back to Smitch on his way to the bench. And this was one of many instances that show Smitch, like I've accused Bryan before, that they have no intention of seeing the Raptors ultimately succeed; I'm 100% sure they've both been on the take for our detriment - one of them is still here, and that's Bryan.

The 2nd move of rippin us up that summer was letting MoPete go in favour of Jason Kapono, even though the market was the same for both of them. In that move, we lost locker room leadership (not saying Jason had didn't have it in him, but MoPete set the tone for hard work), perimeter defense, and even lost in offense, as while Jason is an elite shooter, MoPete is quite specialized in shooting himself, and was a better finisher (how many players in the league hit as many crazy shots on a regular basis as he did, and still does when he got burn last year?) and a better player off the bounce. What's more, the age issue is a bad argument, as MoPete was a perennial 82gamer until an elbow injury took him out (think about that; elbow injuries are rarely career threatening...all an elbow needs is a little rest), and hasn't got burn the past 3yrs b/c of discombobulation w/NOH and OKC n Cha making for (overrated) youth movements. This was a harder hit than even resigning Smitch, regardless if anyone wants to believe it or not. We still haven't recovered, particularly on defense, and now 3pt shooting.

3) Summer 2008 saw the departure of TJ, Rasho and Garbo.

TJ and Jose made for a combination that gave us 48 minutes of awsome PG play (and TJ has never had an issue w/Jose, rather, everywhere TJ has been, he makes his backup better by working w/them in practice and supporting them when they get equal burn; Jose will say as much as he has before), set the tone for toughness w/substance (our toughest player since Oakley, and we still haven't recovered; Reggie has no substance) and along w/MoPete, was Chris' closest friend.

Rasho and Garbo not only made things easier for Andrea, Chris and Jose, both on the court and in developing them, they did it for everyone on the team. And in that same move of getting rid of TJ & Rasho, we also got rid of a 17th overall pick in arguably the deepest draft of alltime. All for who? Jermaine O'Neal, who was a solid player, but made entirely too much money, especially for someone who played the same positions as our franchise player in Chris and 1st overall pick in Andrea.

4) As if the move to get Jermaine O'Neal didn't set us back enough, the move in sending him to Miami was even fucking worse! Not only did we give up the best interior defender we've ever had, we also sent Jamario, who ended up starting for Miami and helped them get back into the playoffs b/c of his defense, shooting and finishing, but we also gave off a 1st Rd pick! Unfuckingbelievable! All for who? Shawn Marion, who was a good defensive player, an awsome producer in fastbreaks via creating them defensively and then either scoring or creating, but a weak halfcourt player in our system. Compare that w/Jamario, who did much of the same things in the fullcourt for us, but also hit open shots from both 2pt & 3pt range for us, spacing the floor for Chris & Jose in the halfcourt.

This move also made us a player in the 2009 free agency, which is actually a negative accomplishment, seeing the whole league was gearing for summer 2010 free agency! More on that later, all regarding Bryan the goddamn huckster here.

Oh, we did also let go of Smitch that year, but the tone was already set, and half of the good players from the 06-07 core were already gone by then.

5) Come summer 2009, we get Hedo Turkoglu, who had lead an overachieving Orlando team that was completely overmatched in the NBA Finals. They were, for all intents and purposes, a Cinderella team that year.

Only that move was doomed from the start as well! Hedo's primary role is that of point forward. The thing is, Jose's primary role is that of floor general from the PG position, and both are perimeter orientated players. This move could've worked, but the fact is our primary offense was based on getting Chris the ball to post up or face-up from 17ft-and-in (as opposed to Orlando's drive and kick offense, where Dwight's shot attempts are secondary), and Andrea was our 2nd option.

W/all that in mind, Hedo wasn't gonna fit in from the start. Now people here might say that me writing this is based on hindsight being 20-20, but I completely disagree.

-who didn't see that such a move would take the ball out of Jose's hands?
-who didn't see that Chris or Andrea would have to make major adjustments to their game, in order to accomodate Hedo?
-didn't we already have a very efficient offense featuring Chris' 17ft-in game, Andrea's floor spreading/finishing, Jose's playmaking and surrounding them w/shooters & finishers? Wasn't defense a bigger priority? Thus wouldn't have made more sense to keep Jamario and Anthony, especially since they both fit in our system better as role players (spot-up shooting, finishing, and all what they did for us defensively; and we were losing w/them playing good D early in 08-09 b/c of Andrea & Jermaine sucking, and having no production off the bench, thanks to TJ, Rasho & Garbo being gone) and both had histories as point forwards, who'd be it part time to compliment Jose, rather than fulltime, lessening Jose's game? Really, what exact purpose was getting Hedo supposed to serve? Was it supposed to make us shoot 55% from the floor so we wouldn't have to play defense?

And even after losing AP, Jamario & Joey Graham (who had his best year for us, and it was better than any of the swings who played for us in 09-10), Bryan then takes another step and gets rid of Kris Humphries, who was showing potential of solid defense & roleplaying this side of Rasho & Garbo, and replaces him w/the scrub who doesn't at all fit our system in Reggie Evans (we run a Flex Offense, which makes skilled PF n C's be the primaries; how the fuck does Reggie fit in this? Compare that w/Kris able to finish n shoot from 12-15ft!)! And got rid of Jason Kapono while doing so! And while he wasn't super for us, he played his best years w/us, and got better and better as his tenure w/us went on, and is surely a better fit for us than Reggie, and certainly has more value around the league than Reggie, even before his injuries!

6) Come summer 2010, now everything blows up in Raptor fans faces, and people here are still looking to Bryan for hope.

-Chris is not only moved to Miami, but we don't even get Micheal Beasley in return! This while Minnesota gets him for nothing! Say what you want about his perceived lack of ball IQ, but Coach Triano is the best in the league at making young players & reclaimation projects play their best ball; w/all of Micheal Beasley's talent, and being teammates w/Jose and Andrea, he would've fit here all too well.

-Here w/o Chris, you'd think now we'd be able to see how Hedo could fit in, as now we'd need him for all he's got, and it'd work w/Jose as now our offense would need both of thier creativity instead of dumping the ball into Chris for 40-50% of our teams touches. And what happens? We move him for Leandro, an undersized SG who can't effectively play PG in the halfcourt, and who plays the same position as young Demar!

-Not only that, but we lose another creative scorer who was showing lots of raw potential in Marco, whose now shown he's productive as a starter, 6th man, and defender for the playoff bound New Orleans Hornets, who have scored W's against some really good teams this year! How much better has he been than every wing player we got this side of Demar (who is as much a small forward as he is an offguard, thus no reason to believe that Marco, a combo guard w/court vision, unlike Leandro), including the guy we got for him in Julian (who is a good player, but doesn't offer Marco's shooting, playmaking, or already built chemistry he had w/Andrea & Jose)?

-Not only that, but instead of getting skilled guys to replace Chris's offensive dominance and Hedo's versatility, we freakin start the season w/Reggie in our starting lineup, and Joey Dorsey getting burn there too! Who in their right mind would think that replacing a 24ppg/11rpg guy w/a scrub who can't score in an empty gym or play effective defense w/o flopping, is a recipe for success, or even to get the fans excited? If Amir wasn't ready to initially start, then David Andersen was! (The best big man in the Euroleague for 08-09, and that's saying something; that Houston missed the boat on him yet gives Brad Miller burn, and Coach Monty Williams doesn't milk even half the talent out of the Hornets are besides the point - yes, NOH is underachieving; if Coach Scott was workin w/them still, they kick our ass this past night).

-Then we move David Andersen before he even has a chance to establish himself w/us, even though his game is perfect for our flex, and was a better and better defender as his chemistry grew w/us, and also move Jarrett, for Peja's expiring contract and a young PG in Jerryd. And while Jerryd is the better scorer than Jarrett, he's not nearly the defender, playmaker, clutch shooter or leader than Jarrett was. And regarding Peja's expiring contract, when in the previous years has Bryan shown sound & well thought out judgement in his 4 previous years w/us?
--------------------------------------------

Now if all of that isn't enough for Bryan to be fired on the spot (it should've happend yrs ago, IMHO), there's actually more. And I've alluded and spoken plainly of it in the thread when we moved David & Jarrett.

All these negative moves have major threads in common:

-MoPete historically raised his game against Lebitch; JKapono has no such history
-Lebitch can't win vs teams that clog the lane well, and JO'Neal is an elite interior defender
-Lebitch hasn't played w/a solid young big man since Carlos Boozer left Cleveland
-re-upping Smitch while letting go of MoPete, TJ, Rasho, Garbo, AP, Joey (who also has had some of his best games vs elite competition), all for less than 60 cents on the dollar, has made for Chris to understand he's got no future w/Bryan running things.
-sending JO to Miami brought them back into the playoff picture and winning culture, and getting rid of that capspace for Hedo took us out of the picture of being an effective player for the 2010 market, and more immediately at the time, sent AP packing to go team up w/Lebitch in Cleveland, even though he was a much better fit on defense, offense (spot up shooter + part time ballhander), and in the locker room beside Chris/Andrea/Jose than Hedo ever was. A simple look at their career resumes would've shown anyone w/any experience of coaching ball that much.

As I've said before, right from re-upping Smitch and letting go of MoPete, none of Bryan's moves have shown any sound or well thought out judgment. What's more, it all looks like there's enough rats to smell wherein you can take all of this to the authorities w/accusations against Bryan of collusion, and ask for bank details of paper trails and phone records of connections, and I reckon you'd most likely find something. More than something actually.

I'm 100% convinced that Bryan is not an inept fool, I'm convinced he's been paid under the table to sabotage our team.

In 06-07, we had star young players, and solid role players on both the 1st and 2nd units to guide the young players, play defense, hit open shots, and build solid chemistry, and all of them were good guys off the court. And the budget wasn't out of whack.

5yrs later, we're actually worse off. Now think about it: We had everything a GM would want in 06-07, and now, through a series of what I believe were deliberately bad moves (and even if you don't think as I do, there's no arguing against each move being one that w/some critical thinking, should NOT have been done), we have LESS than what we had. We don't even have fucking capspace w/the current way of things! It's all bullshit by none other than Bryan.

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Old 03-02-2011, 12:40 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Uros was drafted before Colangelo.
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