The Coach: Barganani has made significant inprovements
Old 02-08-2010, 12:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Arrow The Coach: Barganani has made significant inprovements

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1. Defence: Bargnani has come a long way in this category. Just a few years ago he was a lost and sometimes disinterested defender. No more! He has become a very good team defender. He talks a great deal and is totally locked into the game plan and the prescribed coverages. He's alert and willing and able to carry out the game plan. He's constantly in the right position and therefore he's in a position to make plays as a shot blocker and/or take charges. He's so much better at his post defence - his added strength and stamina have allowed him to not be bullied in the paint any more. He competes a lot harder than he ever has.

2. Strength and Stamina: He paid the price this off-season and put the work in on his body and he's stronger and more capable of being able to withstand the rigours of the long, grinding season a whole lot better. He isn't fading anymore. Input = output. He clearly paid his dues and he is seeing the fruits of his labour.

3. Post Game: No, he's no Shaq or Kareem in there but just a few years ago he was just a three-point shooting specialist. Now he's got game. He's stronger, able to carve out deep space in the lane and hold his position, and he's getting high-percentage shots down there. Bargnani is getting comfortable with his post moves, and his awareness of mismatches and what moves work at various times is much better. It's still a work in progress but he's been much better.

4. Skills: Bargnani is making basketball plays beyond just making the three-point shots. He's setting better screens, making good passes; he and Bosh are working well together. He cuts hard to the hoop and gets easy scores off the ball. He's become one of the best big men in the league at taking his man off the bounce to the rim. He's so graceful and fluid for a guy his size that he makes it look easy. Overall, he's figuring out his game and what works for him. These days, it's a whole lot!

LINK - TSN.ca
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Concept of Andrea Bargnani as a Most Improved Player candidate

Armstrong: Bargnani has made significant improvements

http://tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=309440

I think he should be a candidate but I know he won't be
He'll be our little "hidden" treasure!!
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Awards like most improved are based a lot off numbers and there hasn't been a huge jump there...so i doubt he'll be a serious candidate for that award, but i bet if you polled coaches around league there is a lot more discussions about him now than there were a year or two ago. You can't sleep on him anymore.
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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He's bringing that Al Borland work ethic more consistantly..

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Old 02-08-2010, 01:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Bargs has played very well for us this year... though as a #1 pick, that's what he should be doing. I'm very happy with his development, and he is turning out to be an exciting player as well. I love the fact that he doesn't just go for quiet, one-hand jams. If he has an open lane, he's bound to take it hard to the rim and finish with some style. That's the kind of thing that will get him exposure, and in turn more respect from the refs.

I still think he looks pretty awkward beating his man off the dribble, but shit... it works! The one dunk he threw down on Duncan a few weeks ago was fucking nasty, but getting to the rim, I was sure he would dribble it off his foot or step out of bounds or fuck up somehow.

His interior D has improved a lot, it's true. But we can't forget about how few rebounds he gets. It's actually pretty surprising. He's almost always in good defensive position, and just based on percentages, he should be getting more boards. He certainly can get 10+/game, but for some reason he's more likely to get 3-4 than 9-10. Once he improves in that area, we will be a much better defensive team, and will limit our opponents to fewer shot attempts.
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Old 02-09-2010, 09:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AR1815 View Post
His interior D has improved a lot, it's true. But we can't forget about how few rebounds he gets. It's actually pretty surprising. He's almost always in good defensive position, and just based on percentages, he should be getting more boards. He certainly can get 10+/game, but for some reason he's more likely to get 3-4 than 9-10. Once he improves in that area, we will be a much better defensive team, and will limit our opponents to fewer shot attempts.
Watching him play some game (i missed the first 3 months, it's a long story) i may say that he's not taking boards because he's usually focused on boxing out or checking opponenst player more than run under the glass and grab it.

His work is making easier for Bosh to get boards, and so for the team in general. I really apreciate this commitment to the team instead that putting up better stats, but seems that the vast majority of people here read them instead of watching the game. Imho.
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Watching him play some game (i missed the first 3 months, it's a long story) i may say that he's not taking boards because he's usually focused on boxing out or checking opponenst player more than run under the glass and grab it.
That doesn't really make sense... the more he boxes out, the more rebounds he should get. Rebounding isn't just about 'running under the glass and grabbing' the ball.

I know what you mean, though, and it does happen, rarely. But following that logic, he should be getting a shit ton of Bosh's boards. Unless Bosh just grabs 11+/game because he relies on his teammates to box players out and then swoops in at the last second.

Rebounding is one of those things in basketball where you have to be selfish about it. If you box your man out well, then do your best to try to get the ball. You never know who else is going for the rebound. Yes, a great box out can sometimes lead to a board for your teammate. But (much) more often than not, a fairly athletic 7' center should be getting boards over a guy like Jarret Jack if he has boxed out a guy properly.
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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it makes perfect sense, Bosh very rarely boxes out, he almost always goes for the rebound instead. Bargnani is the opposite, his first instinct is to protect the ball from the other center. Watch carefully, every game there are rebounds he could easily get, but he just plays it safe and lets a guard/wing grab it. This is probably a direct result of the confidence they have, Bosh feels like he can get every rebound, while Bargnani doesn't trust his skills, and prefers to protect the ball instead.
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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^I like Bosh's mentality better.
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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it makes perfect sense, Bosh very rarely boxes out, he almost always goes for the rebound instead. Bargnani is the opposite, his first instinct is to protect the ball from the other center. Watch carefully, every game there are rebounds he could easily get, but he just plays it safe and lets a guard/wing grab it. This is probably a direct result of the confidence they have, Bosh feels like he can get every rebound, while Bargnani doesn't trust his skills, and prefers to protect the ball instead.
Just because he goes out to get the rebound, doesn't mean he doesn't box out. The box out happens as the shot goes up so that you have position to get the rebound, and then you go and get it. If it was just a matter of getting it without boxing out, then much more athletic guys would be getting it over Bosh. If Bosh, or any big man for that matter, did not box out, they would get benched.
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Old 02-10-2010, 01:12 AM   #11 (permalink)
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it makes perfect sense, Bosh very rarely boxes out, he almost always goes for the rebound instead. Bargnani is the opposite, his first instinct is to protect the ball from the other center. Watch carefully, every game there are rebounds he could easily get, but he just plays it safe and lets a guard/wing grab it. This is probably a direct result of the confidence they have, Bosh feels like he can get every rebound, while Bargnani doesn't trust his skills, and prefers to protect the ball instead.
First off, boxing out and going for the rebound are synonymous. Every good rebounder knows to box out. You can't just outjump your opponent. If that were the case, Nate Robinson would be up there with Dwight in terms of rebounds per game. Boxing out should be instinctive to every big man in the NBA, and it sure as hell is to Bosh, who is a top rebounder in the league.

And how is letting the ball drop to the floor instead of going hard after it 'playing it safe'? Like I said earlier, a rebounder should always go for the ball after a box out, always. If you let a ball drop to the floor, one of the 4 other players on the opposite team has a chance of getting it. Sure, you might have boxed out your man into the stands, but if you don't go for the rebound, you've taken yourself out of the equation as well. How is that beneficial to a team?

And it's true that once in a while, Bargs boxes out his man and a teammate gets the ball that he could potentially have gotten himself. But that's Bargs' problem: he's not aggressive enough going for the board. It's not an excuse to say: 'Oh, he's letting the other guys get the ball, so it's okay.'

Last edited by AR1815; 02-10-2010 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:21 AM   #12 (permalink)
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That doesn't really make sense... the more he boxes out, the more rebounds he should get. Rebounding isn't just about 'running under the glass and grabbing' the ball.

I know what you mean, though, and it does happen, rarely. But following that logic, he should be getting a shit ton of Bosh's boards. Unless Bosh just grabs 11+/game because he relies on his teammates to box players out and then swoops in at the last second.

Rebounding is one of those things in basketball where you have to be selfish about it. If you box your man out well, then do your best to try to get the ball. You never know who else is going for the rebound. Yes, a great box out can sometimes lead to a board for your teammate. But (much) more often than not, a fairly athletic 7' center should be getting boards over a guy like Jarret Jack if he has boxed out a guy properly.
Have you noticed Bosh's rebounds have gone way up this season?

Some of that is Bosh's strength, and some of that is Bargnani properly boxing out his man for the first time in his career. Bargnani is doing what Rasho has done for years to get rebounds for Bosh and KG - sealing his man/boxing him out and either getting the rebound or allowing a teammate to get the rebound.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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This whole system of Bargnani staying outside while Bosh is the only inside threat is starting to grow on me
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Bargs may be boxing out but he still needs to secure some rebounds. During this season I can recall he was grabbing 10 boards a game. However, with Bosh grabbing near 12 a game thats not going to last. I expect at least 7-8 boards from Bargs a game. Anything under 5 boards is just unexceptable for a 7 footer of his caliber.
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Old 02-10-2010, 10:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
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First off, boxing out and going for the rebound are synonymous. Every good rebounder knows to box out. '
Sorry.

But you're 100% wrong about this.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
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100 percent wrong? I don't see how that's possible SJ. Are you saying that going for the rebound and boxing out have nothing to do with each other and that there are zero good rebounders that know how to box out?
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:14 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Well, Chris Bosh is an excellent rebounder and I wouldn't consider him an expert at using his body to create space under the net.

Guys that are great at boxing out will usually be good rebounders, but it doesn't always hold true the other way around.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:19 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Bosh is using his body to create space on the horizontal plane much more this season than in season's past. That is what all his strength has gotten him. Before he was all about the vertical plane. Not anymore. Now it's much more of a little bit of both.

Is he an expert? I don't know what that entails, but I feel pretty confident in saying that he knows more than absolutely nothing about it.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:22 AM   #19 (permalink)
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100 percent wrong? I don't see how that's possible SJ. Are you saying that going for the rebound and boxing out have nothing to do with each other and that there are zero good rebounders that know how to box out?
No.

I'm saying that stating whatever the fuck he stated as an absolute fact is in fact not. Sine it is not black and white, it is 100% wrong.

Thats all.


In fact, I guess by even making this post you are stating, unstated, that I in fact know absolutely nothing about Basketball.

That hurts, inside, in my heart

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Old 02-10-2010, 11:23 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Bosh has never been given as much credit as he deserves with regards to rebounding. He doesn't have an ass like Shaq or Barkley, with his stature, it's not about clearing out space, although he does pretty good at it. He uses his strengths, which is getting a hand on the ball and tipping it to himself. And he's as good as anybody in the league when it comes to that..
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