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-   -   Chisolm: many different ways to build a winner (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/chisolm-many-different-ways-build-winner-22976.html)

jeffb 05-19-2012 02:06 PM

Chisolm: many different ways to build a winner
 
Quote:

The Raptors are shifting into win-now mode. That much is settled. Many of you think they should keep losing until they get a high draft pick, but that was never the reason they were losing in the first place. They were losing for the last two years because thatís how long it took to rid the franchise of the detritus of the Chris Bosh era. That means unloading contracts that were meant to help Bosh win (Jarrett Jack, Marco Belinelli, Hedo Turkogluís deal that became Leandro Barbosa), developing the youngsters that were mitigated by Boshís presence (Andrea Bargnani, DeMar DeRozan, Amir Johnson) and finding a coach that could radically transform the culture of a traditionally soft organization. They were trying to get as close to a clean slate as they could as quickly as they could so that they could go about the business of winning again. High draft picks were a side benefit to that plan, but certainly not the motivating factor that set that plan in motion.

People love to make the argument that teams need high draft picks to turn their fortunes around, but they are quick to forget that the Raptors already have two of them: Andrea Bargnani (1) and Jonas Valanciunas (5). Are they enough to mollify the draft lovers? Itís doubtful, but as a team you canít just keep digging in the same mine hoping to strike it rich. Sometimes teams get Durant, sometimes teams get Oden. Heck, sometimes teams get Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, Adam Morrison, Wesley Johnson or Hasheem Thabeet. High picks guarantee nothing. The Raptors have had a couple of cracks at it and now have to move on. You canít keep artificially finding reasons to go back to that well or youíll winding up falling in like Sacramento and Golden State. High picks are one piece of team rebuilding, but there are dozens of other pieces that have to be considered, too. If a franchise becomes obsessed with only one way of doing things they are going to miss out on dozens of opportunities to improve in other ways.


Take my favorite recent example for proof: Indiana. Do you know how many top-five picks they have on their roster? Iíll tell you - zero. The Pacers were the third-best team in the East this year, fifth-best in the NBA, yet the highest any of their players were picked in the draft was tenth (Paul George). Sure, they drafted wisely in the mid-to-late teens with guys like Danny Granger, Roy Hibbert and Tyler Hansbrough, but they used the draft as only one tool in their rebuilding plan.

They also traded wisely, nabbing George Hill, Darren Collison and Leandro Barbosa from other teams, and hit a home run in free agency this offseason when they secured David West on a cheap and flexible two-year, $20-million deal. They lucked out when they promoted Frank Vogel to interim head coach last season and were wise to lock him up last summer. They are currently tied with the Miami Heat in the second round of the Playoffs and Larry Bird just won Executive of the Year for his efforts.
There is no one way to rebuild the Toronto Raptors - Sports Blog | Top Sports Blog | Best Sports News ? Sympatico Sports - The Cheap Seats

DSWC 05-19-2012 02:22 PM

Good written article from a different perspective.

I think it's pretty obvious that this team is unable to tank under Casey, and although BC catches some flack, this financial rebuild was a necessity, and I believe he has put us in a situation that does really allow for flexibility. Like Chisholm says, the draft- at best- is a crap-shoot

We have a decent core, and now we can make a splash in free agency.

A lot of people will say "but the goal is not to be a treadmill team, but to win it all", but to "win it all", you have to make strides first. I think BC will make a couple of big free agent acquisitions, and even if we only squeak into the playoffs for the next year or two, we get some of our younger core a good taste at what it takes to be successful, and how different playoff basketball really is.

jeffb 05-19-2012 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSWC (Post 645072)
Good written article from a different perspective.

I think it's pretty obvious that this team is unable to tank under Casey, and although BC catches some flack, this financial rebuild was a necessity, and I believe he has put us in a situation that does really allow for flexibility. Like Chisholm says, the draft- at best- is a crap-shoot

We have a decent core, and now we can make a splash in free agency.

A lot of people will say "but the goal is not to be a treadmill team, but to win it all", but to "win it all", you have to make strides first. I think BC will make a couple of big free agent acquisitions, and even if we only squeak into the playoffs for the next year or two, we get some of our younger core a good taste at what it takes to be successful, and how different playoff basketball really is.

Take a look at the Eastern Conference. Beyond Miami, Chicago, Indiana what do you have? No a lot. There is no reason why we can't be in the mix after those teams with Philadelphia, Orlando......with a couple solid additions this summer. Especially if Valanciunas can be just decent in his rookie year.

LX 05-19-2012 04:04 PM

Just fully committing to playing defense every game gets just about any team to .500, since a good percentage of teams do not buy into defense, and you'll catch some good teams on tough stretches. So I think they've already established that sense of promise. Casey has done his part, now BC needs to do his job, and I really liked what Bird said about th process he went through. TeamTeamTeam. Forget about taking the easy route of looking for the superstar. A superstar willl still need a team to get results. And a well-balanced team can allow for the emergence of stars from within. There's the opportunity for trades and smart FA pickups right now. Let's do it.

I'd still love to see the Wildcat stud matched up with the Wildcat alumni coach.

LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! 05-19-2012 08:00 PM

I do not trust BC in FA. I hope BC uses capspace in a trade of sorts, for example, using it to get someone like R.Gay.

jeffb 05-19-2012 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! (Post 645190)
I do not trust BC in FA. I hope BC uses capspace in a trade of sorts, for example, using it to get someone like R.Gay.

i have a feeling he'll do both. As for Free agency, outside of Dragic, batum, Nash, Brooks, Gordon, Mayo, Asik........there is no other players i'd want anyway. And i would say we have little to no chance at getting most of those players. And of course Deron Williams but i left him off that list for obvious reasons.

Superjudge 05-19-2012 08:42 PM

deron is halfway here baby, I am gonna email him!

Superjudge 05-19-2012 08:49 PM

I just eamiled Deron Williams. Good email, he will be signing here, I promise.

If I can get Steven A. Smith to challenge me to a fist fight, I can get Williams in Toronto.

Werd.

ReRoaR 05-19-2012 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 645201)

If I can get Steven A. Smith to challenge me to a fist fight, I can get Williams in Toronto.

Pffft. Teddy Ruxpin could get Stephen A. Smith to challenge him to a fist fight.

box92 05-19-2012 09:13 PM

that was a pretty good read, thanks

Superjudge 05-19-2012 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReRoaR (Post 645204)
Pffft. Teddy Ruxpin could get Stephen A. Smith to challenge him to a fist fight.

maybe he could, maybe he couldnt, I can't answer to that, I just know I did.

;)

TORaptor4Ever 05-21-2012 03:09 AM

Excellent article. I'm glad that teams like DEN and IND have showed well in these playoffs. Sick & tired of the whole "Let's tank it every year until we get a lebron-like talent!" thing.

rapsmannn 05-21-2012 04:03 AM

three factors that build a great team, well obviously his right many ways to do it, miami heat is rare case

ranked on importance
1.draft
2. trade
3.free agency

drafting is never issue wit hte raptors, bargnani and derozan are pretty good, not the best in there class but near the top of there class

the real problem is trades and draft, bc has done a poor job on signing free agents and making trades that he wins, he's lost more trades than he won,

obviously in the last couple of years bc is losign every trade because its more about long term rebuild, hence barbosa to the pacers,

this is the summer where he actually has some room to do some work,

carp 05-21-2012 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 645525)
Excellent article. I'm glad that teams like DEN and IND have showed well in these playoffs. Sick & tired of the whole "Let's tank it every year until we get a lebron-like talent!" thing.

Totally agree.... it's such a brutal way to watch each season too. Winning breeds winning.

Ammo 05-21-2012 09:53 AM

I agree with the article in that there are several ways to build a team and you don't do a perpetual tank.

I also think it's kind of lame to pick out a couple of teams that are doing O.K. in the playoffs and say, "See? You don't need star talent through drafts." The draft can be VERY helpful in making a team a contender. And it's right in your face that most of the actual winning is done by teams with stud players who get all the calls by refs. It's like a parade to the foul line.

It reminds me of the baseball arguement that teams that don't spend can still win by pointing out 1 or 2 teams that do well in the playoffs while the big spenders keep showing up in the playoffs most years and 25 other teams have no shot.

I'd be surprised if there are many Raps fans who want to continue tanking. Tanking is what the system forces you to do often when you are not cities like L.A., N.Y. Chicago, Dallas and Miami. (and when you are Toronto and run your program like you are Milwaukee).

LX 05-21-2012 06:02 PM

Chicago and Miami have tanked.

Actual winning comes via the stripe? Lakers got crazy numbers of whistles and are about to be swept. The Clippers surely went to the line a ton more than SA, and they got swept. I would suggest that it's just as important to be able to defend without fouling a lot. That takes a well-balanced team, as does executing on offense, particularly in the clutch, and those are the teams with success while many a team with a superstar sees early exits or finishing out of the playoffs altogether.

TORaptor4Ever 05-21-2012 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammo (Post 645547)
I agree with the article in that there are several ways to build a team and you don't do a perpetual tank.

I also think it's kind of lame to pick out a couple of teams that are doing O.K. in the playoffs and say, "See? You don't need star talent through drafts." The draft can be VERY helpful in making a team a contender. And it's right in your face that most of the actual winning is done by teams with stud players who get all the calls by refs. It's like a parade to the foul line.

It reminds me of the baseball arguement that teams that don't spend can still win by pointing out 1 or 2 teams that do well in the playoffs while the big spenders keep showing up in the playoffs most years and 25 other teams have no shot.

I'd be surprised if there are many Raps fans who want to continue tanking. Tanking is what the system forces you to do often when you are not cities like L.A., N.Y. Chicago, Dallas and Miami. (and when you are Toronto and run your program like you are Milwaukee).

I agree that the draft can certainly be beneficial, but I'd argue that finding talent LATER in the draft and spending wisely in FA are even more important than praying for that top 3 pick.

The best teams are able to retool on the fly while winning and making the playoffs.

Bankiz 05-21-2012 07:02 PM

To me, whatever is the way, you need a balance team (offense-defense) and a deep bench to get trough all the season.

so the draft is important, but not having a lottery pick. See SAS choose wisely their late first or second and they build with it.
so lotter pick don't do all.

as for FA that seems important, but not as some solid trade.
either you can bring here some FA because of the money or because of the big Market, or either you jave the trade spirit to do the right moves.

INDY is a solid example of patience.
SAS is an example of work and team spirit.
Miami is a mix of tanking, a high pick with wade, and pending money.
BOS is an example of spending money, trade and team spirit.
LAL are just about money.
phily get a mix of pick and little trade.
Clippers made high picks for years before they were able to trade those asset for a megastar like Paul.

you can see that every whom win someday or not, have not the same system to be successful. but maybe raptors can find a way to change their image, alongside with their culture, like indy did, and make things better for one or two solid FA to desire to come here and turn the thing around.

one of my fear, even if i want the playoffs tobe our goalk, each and every yeat, is that BC will go to wuickly. i hope he don't blow out the roster to make a big move and bring here a star. we need small changes, max 4-6 new players (include JV and our first round) to keep a core and go forward.

because for now, we need a SF starter to bring our team to the next level (= playoffs) and develop JV without burning him.
after that make little improvment in the roster, and we will be fine with casey strong hand over the roster and defense.

Ammo 05-21-2012 11:02 PM

A balanced team goes without saying if you are going to contend. The Heat would have already won if they had that. But you have no shot if you can't get calls. How can you even make it to the playoffs when 9 times out of 10, it's a parade to the line at the end of every game. To me, that's one reason why basketball is the easiest sport to bet on.

bjjs 05-21-2012 11:07 PM

Is Chrisholm the only guy writing full length articles on the Raptors still? Does he know the playoffs are on?


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