Chisholm: Raptors should consider moving Barbosa & Amir

jeffb · 12-07-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

We'll start with Leandro Barbosa. Barbosa was brought to Toronto as much to rid the club of the colossal free agency mistake that was Hedo Turkoglu as he was to be a contributor to the team's offense. In fact, that Barbosa was a useful player was almost secondary to the fact that his deal ran two years shorter and for fewer per-year dollars than Hedo's did. The team would have likely taken just about any player that fit those terms just to rid themselves of the memory of Turkoglu and his $50-million contract, it just so happened that Barbosa was the guy who best fit the bill.

Barbosa, though, is not at all the kind of player that the Raptors need this year. He's a bad defender who is getting worse being on a team with no immediate chances of success. His offensive potency has dipped since his heyday with the Suns, and his body is fragile enough without the wear-and-tear of three-games-in-three-night stretches that this season promises to offer. Plus, with Jerryd Bayless slotted to basically play the "Barbosa" role for the Raptors this season, Leandro doesn't even have his own role to himself with this club.

He can still score in bunches, though, and he'd be a big asset to several contending and near-contending clubs (Boston, Chicago and Indiana come quickly to mind), plus his expiring deal makes him a low-risk pickup with zero long-term cap penalties. So long as the Raptors strategically manage the cap implications of losing Barbosa's expiring deal, it says here that unloading him should be a priority in this severely compressed offseason period.

Quote:

The second player that would seem to have lost his place in the greater scheme of things is Amir Johnson, the bouncy forward that started 54 games for the team last season. Here's how the facts about Johnson shake out: He and Ed Davis are strikingly similar players in terms of their role on the team, but Davis is just better in the areas that are most important to the club: defense and rebounding.

Johnson got his shot last season, getting to start the bulk of the games he played in while playing a career-high 25.7 minutes per game in the process, and while he was a solid offensive contributor, he didn't really do enough to cement his place in team hierarchy. While he cut his foul rate considerably to maintain starter's minutes, shot a good percentage (.568) and transformed himself at the free throw line, his defense was as exposed as ever going against starting caliber fours each night and his rebound-rate dipped to its lowest point since his rookie year.

What's worse for Johnson is that the Raptors seem intent on moving Andrea Bargnani to power forward this season, which means less minutes available at the position, and Davis will likely be the primary backup given his stellar rebounding and shot blocking abilities (plus, Davis only scored 1.9 ppg less than Johnson a season ago). There will still be minutes available to Johnson in a four-man frontcourt rotation, but the Raptors may be better served moving Johnson along and letting James Johnson and Linas Klezia log the leftover power forward minutes and using Amir in trade scenarios.

Chisholm: Raptors should consider moving Barbosa, Johnson

Bankiz · 12-07-2011, 04:07 PM

i beg for barbosa to chicago with a good return.

but amir come on ! if in this team, we sack effort, i don't understand it !
amir is one of the guys who last year put some real effort. he put this team before is body most of the time.
at least he is worth his 5M a year.

we all know that the problem is not amir.
If we have a problem in frontcourt, it's mainly about our center (or our lake of center)

amir + good center = defense
barg + good center = 1/2 defense.

so i want barg gone, not amir.

please Bargs out. enough already !!!

LX · 12-07-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankiz

i beg for barbosa to chicago with a good return.

but amir come on ! if in this team, we sack effort, i don't understand it !
amir is one of the guys who last year put some real effort. he put this team before is body most of the time.
at least he is worth his 5M a year.

we all know that the problem is not amir.
If we have a problem in frontcourt, it's mainly about our center (or our lake of center)

amir + good center = defense
barg + good center = 1/2 defense.

so i want barg gone, not amir.

please Bargs out. enough already !!!

It's not about him not having value, it's about getting something for that value. And Amir's defense, though improved, is still behind what Ed can do. If Bargnani stays, then Amir would look to be a logical piece to use in order to upgrade the roster.

Bankiz · 12-07-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX

It's not about him not having value, it's about getting something for that value. And Amir's defense, though improved, is still behind what Ed can do. If Bargnani stays, then Amir would look to be a logical piece to use in order to upgrade the roster.

i understand the value of both amir and barg.
but i hope BC goes for a trade including bargs.
Davis starter and Amir as a backup would be luch niecer, than bargs/davis.
and if BC trade i would bring more value with barg than with amir. at leaste a pick + a solid player.

GrannyFro · 12-07-2011, 04:21 PM

i wouldn't move amir. Quality big locked up in a decent contract and really hasn't hit his prime yet. Probably the hardest worker on the team and definitely one of the most consistant players, knows his fucking role. Seems to be gaining weight, i say see how he fills in and definitely hang on to him for the duration of the contract. At worst you got a solid big off the bench getting paid like a big off the bench

GrannyFro · 12-07-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX

It's not about him not having value, it's about getting something for that value. And Amir's defense, though improved, is still behind what Ed can do. If Bargnani stays, then Amir would look to be a logical piece to use in order to upgrade the roster.

tough call lx and i'm very high on davis to. Davis definitely has the ability to alter shots better than amir but amirs the banger out there, putting his shoulders into people, bodying up and setting the best picks on the team minus reggie. BANGING!
and that was at 230

got to keep both

**Acie** · 12-07-2011, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyFro

i wouldn't move amir. Quality big locked up in a decent contract and really hasn't hit his prime yet. Probably the hardest worker on the team and definitely one of the most consistant players, knows his fucking role. Seems to be gaining weight, i say see how he fills in and definitely hang on to him for the duration of the contract. At worst you got a solid big off the bench getting paid like a big off the bench

Werd.

He's our 6'9 Alvin Williams.

JDMtors · 12-07-2011, 05:25 PM

Ill rather like to keep Ahmir and Davis on this team, as much as they are both undersized bigman and are pretty much redundant players. But they do have their own strengths and weaknesses. Such as Ahmirs improvement on offense, and isnt afraid of any body contact, which can lead to him having foul trouble because of over aggressiveness. Davis though probably, giving us more value in return can become a solid defender and rebounder for us, and have clean up buckets. Hes long and lengthy, but his offensive is very raw

For Barbosa, I think he's easier to be traded. 1 He's also an expiring and can be a great 6th man for a team in need of one, and even capable at starting. Though he's fairly quick I think his looking down while dribbling makes him a less effective PG for a team that is looking for one.
But I actually wouldnt mind a Barbosa + Calderon/Bargnani/Bayless for Kaman + 2012 1st. Clippers may even be able to add in Aminu

LX · 12-07-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyFro

tough call lx and i'm very high on davis to. Davis definitely has the ability to alter shots better than amir but amirs the banger out there, putting his shoulders into people, bodying up and setting the best picks on the team minus reggie. BANGING!
and that was at 230

got to keep both

That would be my preference. But it seems like someone's gotta go. Mind you, with the crazy schedule, and no sense that there will be all that much changed yet, maybe they hang on to both for this season anyway.

EggsToTheBBQ · 12-07-2011, 06:11 PM

Amir will need to show that he's recovered from surgery before he can be dealt for anything near his value.

The Raptors should definitely not be trading Amir now.

I can see how trading Barbosa makes a lot of sense - getting anything from another team before his contract expires is a bonus.

Admiral · 12-07-2011, 11:37 PM

barbosa can go because he's not in the plans for the team when we're actually going to be good

but i like to keep amir, i just like to see this guy improve with the us and not on a different team

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12-07-2011, 04:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
Bankiz making funny and strange dark trade in his mind !!! Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,185 Representing:	i beg for barbosa to chicago with a good return. but amir come on ! if in this team, we sack effort, i don't understand it ! amir is one of the guys who last year put some real effort. he put this team before is body most of the time. at least he is worth his 5M a year. we all know that the problem is not amir. If we have a problem in frontcourt, it's mainly about our center (or our lake of center) amir + good center = defense barg + good center = 1/2 defense. so i want barg gone, not amir. please Bargs out. enough already !!!

12-07-2011, 04:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
GrannyFro is too lazy to respond, you win Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,494 Representing:	i wouldn't move amir. Quality big locked up in a decent contract and really hasn't hit his prime yet. Probably the hardest worker on the team and definitely one of the most consistant players, knows his fucking role. Seems to be gaining weight, i say see how he fills in and definitely hang on to him for the duration of the contract. At worst you got a solid big off the bench getting paid like a big off the bench

12-07-2011, 05:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
JDMtors The Man Who Does Everything Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2,960 Representing:	Ill rather like to keep Ahmir and Davis on this team, as much as they are both undersized bigman and are pretty much redundant players. But they do have their own strengths and weaknesses. Such as Ahmirs improvement on offense, and isnt afraid of any body contact, which can lead to him having foul trouble because of over aggressiveness. Davis though probably, giving us more value in return can become a solid defender and rebounder for us, and have clean up buckets. Hes long and lengthy, but his offensive is very raw For Barbosa, I think he's easier to be traded. 1 He's also an expiring and can be a great 6th man for a team in need of one, and even capable at starting. Though he's fairly quick I think his looking down while dribbling makes him a less effective PG for a team that is looking for one. But I actually wouldnt mind a Barbosa + Calderon/Bargnani/Bayless for Kaman + 2012 1st. Clippers may even be able to add in Aminu

12-07-2011, 06:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
EggsToTheBBQ useless Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,200 Representing:	Amir will need to show that he's recovered from surgery before he can be dealt for anything near his value. The Raptors should definitely not be trading Amir now. I can see how trading Barbosa makes a lot of sense - getting anything from another team before his contract expires is a bonus.

12-07-2011, 11:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
Admiral Sick, Wicked, and Nasty! Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,101 Representing:	barbosa can go because he's not in the plans for the team when we're actually going to be good but i like to keep amir, i just like to see this guy improve with the us and not on a different team