CHISHOLM: RAPTORS CAUGHT IN BETWEEN WINNING AND LOSING
Old 12-30-2010, 12:51 AM   #1 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Waterloo / Toronto
Posts: 139
Representing:
Default CHISHOLM: RAPTORS CAUGHT IN BETWEEN WINNING AND LOSING

Quote:
Remember when everyone assumed that the Raptors would be horrible this year, perhaps even the worst team in the NBA? I do. I remember the talk that they were so talent-starved without Chris Bosh, and so poorly coached by Jay Triano, that they'd be in the running to set records with their futility this season.

Well, that hasn't exactly happened. While the team is certainly not good, Triano has done a highly underappreciated job at getting a “talent-starved” roster to compete harder than they did for most of last season, and he's got their defensive rating up from last year when everyone assumed it would drop further (even if it's only gone from worst to third-worst, it's an improvement).

Though he's still routinely criticized outside of Toronto, he's got his team sitting above Charlotte, New Jersey, Washington and the Clippers in the standings, teams many felt might challenge for a playoff spot this season, and he's done it without the benefit of the All-Star talents those teams possess. While their “success” in the standings can be attributed as much to the wretched play of most of the Eastern Conference as anything, that they aren't scrapping the bottom of the NBA two months into the season is both noteworthy and remarkable.

Oh, and it's also undesirable.

The spot the Raptors find themselves in right now is just about the worst spot they could hope to be in, and that puts a lot of pressure on Bryan Colangelo to make some hard choices as we wind into the lead-up to the trade deadline.

The problem is that, with an 11-20 record, the team is not good enough to make a serious run at the post-season, but they are also not bad enough to ensure a quality draft pick (an essential rebuilding tool) in June. They are trapped in the same cage of mediocrity that they found themselves in with Bosh in toe; good enough to beat the truly awful teams – and thus buoy their record – but not good enough to challenge the serious teams. Indiana, for example, has spent many years in this spot and they are no closer to fleeing today it than they were four years ago. It's a very hard trap to escape if you sit in it for too long.

Which winds us back to Colangelo's tough choice: break it down or build it up.
Quote:
It's easy to say that more minutes equates to faster development, but what about the discouragement that can come from being outplayed every single night, and the negative attention that can bring to a player? Also, how does a coach discipline a young player when a team doesn't have useful players to replace them with when they aren't satisfying the demands of the coaching staff? People cite Oklahoma City as an example of what can happen when youth is free to learn on the fly, but that team had key veteran pieces like Nick Collison, Kevin Ollie and Chucky Atkins to help prop up the youth both on the court and off. Plus, even if the Raptors strip the team down further, there is no guarantee that they'll become worse than Detroit, Cleveland, Minnesota or Sacramento (they're that bad) to help guarantee a top-five or top-three draft pick.

source: Chisholm: Raptors caught in between winning and losing
HugoBoss is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 01:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 76,017
Representing:
Default

Quote:
The problem is that, with an 11-20 record, the team is not good enough to make a serious run at the post-season, but they are also not bad enough to ensure a quality draft pick (an essential rebuilding tool) in June.
They're 1.5 games out of 8th.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 01:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,287
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
They're 1.5 games out of 8th.
8th spot sucks
fk24 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 01:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
is waiting for the season to start

Senior Member
 
Ex2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,238
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
They're 1.5 games out of 8th.
Read the whole article... He mentions it..

Quote:
They are only a game-and-a-half out of the eighth spot right now, and some aggressive moves could quickly move them into the top-eight.
Ex2k is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 01:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 76,017
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex2k View Post
Read the whole article... He mentions it..
Exactly, why would he say we're not a serious contender for the playoffs and then mention how close we are to 8th?

And yes FK, 8th sucks.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 01:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,287
Representing:
Default

This team can't even tank right. What the hell was the point of signing Kleiza if we'll only have a ceiling of 30 wins. We should of kept the roster intact and just play the young players majority minutes for development. What a waste of a season. Why bother trying to contend. The best we'll end up is with a 9th spot just like last season.
fk24 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 01:43 AM   #7 (permalink)
set adrift on a memory bliss of you.

Reptars
 
AR1815's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 890
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Exactly, why would he say we're not a serious contender for the playoffs and then mention how close we are to 8th?

And yes FK, 8th sucks.
He says 'serious run at the post-season,' meaning they won't go far.

This article is about as good as the spot we're in right now. Sitting right on the fence, afraid to commit to either side.
AR1815 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 09:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
Psi
Only likes Hockey with 'Fantasy' infront of it

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 1,873
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Exactly, why would he say we're not a serious contender for the playoffs and then mention how close we are to 8th?

And yes FK, 8th sucks.
Limping into 8th then getting blown out in 4 games isn't 'competing seriously'
Psi is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 09:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
Mean Muggin with his son

Swollen Member
 
b55bgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Rock AKA Newfoundland
Posts: 1,400
Representing:
Default

Well i am for NOT tanking.
Imagine the experience these young guys will get from a short playoff run.
The sense of a job well done, that they did this without an allstar and by their own hard work.
Teaching them to fail is only going to ruin the young payers mojo.

I say, put it all on the line and go for broke.

Worst case scenario....they meet MIami in the first round and Bosh hits the bucket to knock us out the playoffs. Will that remind us of anything...lol
b55bgc is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 10:17 AM   #10 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 76,017
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi View Post
Limping into 8th then getting blown out in 4 games isn't 'competing seriously'
Then he should have worded it differently, and if it's about not going far in the playoffs, same should be said about 6th-7th-8th.

Whatever, he's right about being stuck in the middle. We're likely not getting a top3 pick unless we move up somehow and we probably aren't going to the playoffs either unless Colangelo pulls off at least one major deal soon. :facepalm:

Last edited by jeffb; 12-30-2010 at 10:20 AM.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 10:50 AM   #11 (permalink)
blah!

nosce te ipsum


 
fancylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: east side.
Posts: 14,623
Representing:
Default

hey if the Raptors continue to lose at this rate our record will be shitty enough for a good draft pick IMO. This team would have to go on a pretty significant win streak to make 8th and i just don't see that happening, but if the record plays like like it has so far, i won't be complaining about the player we should be in position to land come draft day.
fancylad is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 10:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,717
Representing:
Default

Thinking they are going to make the playoffs is a little wishful. They would need a bunch of teams to allow them to back in. I can see other teams getting better, while the Raptors get easier to beat, because the offense is too easy to figure out in the halfcourt, and leads to to many points the other way when running.

If they can play like last game from here on in - limiting possessions and shutting teams down defensively first and foremost - then who knows? They might be this season's Bobcats. I wouldn't count on it, but if they go that direction, then that would be as good as a high draft pick in my mind. It would mean that the current pick is developing at a good rate.

I'm hoping for a bit of luck where they continue to solidify a good style of team play while allowing a good number of teams to get past them, and then have a good ping pong ball come our way. There's no getting away from the need for luck anyways. I don't really want to see this team go into next season without any sense of how to be successful. They need to have something for any pick to add onto.

There is also the option of accumulating more picks and trying to package them for a high pick or a pick and a player.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 11:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 76,017
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
hey if the Raptors continue to lose at this rate our record will be shitty enough for a good draft pick IMO. This team would have to go on a pretty significant win streak to make 8th and i just don't see that happening, but if the record plays like like it has so far, i won't be complaining about the player we should be in position to land come draft day.
Have you taken a look at the bottom 6 teams in the east? It's horrid! If stay relatively healthy in the New Year, which is a big IF min you we'll be in the mix for 8th. As for getting a high pick, it's possible. But there are at least 3-4 teams worse then us. So imo the best we can hope for is a 5-6 pick unless we get lucky with the ping pong balls or trade up.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 12:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
#NorthernUprising

Next year...
 
js12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: T.O.
Posts: 5,561
Representing:
Default

Even without a quality draft pick, we'll still be in a good position at the offseason.

Barring a trade, we would have 2 first round picks. We can make a move at the free agent market with that TPE and the expirings. Hopefully our young players will continue to develop in the offseason.
js12 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 01:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
Waiting for DD's 1st in game wind mill Dunk

Senior Member

 
halphbreedballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: T.O.
Posts: 4,791
Representing:
Default

Were not going to be a solid playoff team before a lock out happens so all I'm hoping for is a season in which the raps just play hard with heart and hustle, which for the most part They have been doing
halphbreedballer is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 01:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
Captain of the Jamario Moon fan club.

Born Unready
 
Dark Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Electric Avenue
Posts: 15,518
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fk24 View Post
8th spot sucks
9th is worse...
Dark Knight is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 03:51 PM   #17 (permalink)
stank

member
 
Someguy again's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,387
Representing:
Default

complete mediocrity
Someguy again is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 03:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,494
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Someguy again View Post
complete mediocrity
I disagree....

It's a long season. Unlikely that they keep playing at this winning clip as the season wears on, and it's good to see players capable of pulling out games. Losing breeds losing as much as winning breeds winning.

You can't rely on the luck of the lottery....

Colangelo is in a good spot here. Winning helps give value to your players. He has given this team options, more than just waiting for the draft. Even without moves, this team has core pieces moving forward... they just may not be absolute studs. Everyone points to OKC, but shit can derail things along the way... look at Portland. Make your own luck I say.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 04:28 PM   #19 (permalink)
Mean Muggin with his son

Swollen Member
 
b55bgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Rock AKA Newfoundland
Posts: 1,400
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I disagree....

It's a long season. Unlikely that they keep playing at this winning clip as the season wears on, and it's good to see players capable of pulling out games. Losing breeds losing as much as winning breeds winning.

You can't rely on the luck of the lottery....

Colangelo is in a good spot here. Winning helps give value to your players. He has given this team options, more than just waiting for the draft. Even without moves, this team has core pieces moving forward... they just may not be absolute studs. Everyone points to OKC, but shit can derail things along the way... look at Portland. Make your own luck I say.
Carp.. me and you must be brothers from another mother. I seem to agree with most of your posts.

I say let the young gunz do their thing. Make mistakes along the way. It the only way to get better is through making mistakes.
b55bgc is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 04:32 PM   #20 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,494
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by b55bgc View Post
Carp.. me and you must be brothers from another mother. I seem to agree with most of your posts.

I say let the young gunz do their thing. Make mistakes along the way. It the only way to get better is through making mistakes.
+1... this!!! Cheers bro!
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24