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-   -   Chisholm: Raptor players can learn by watching others (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/chisholm-raptor-players-can-learn-watching-others-19256.html)

Acie 02-06-2011 10:12 AM

Chisholm: Raptor players can learn by watching others
 
This is a few days old, but I didn't see it posted.

Quote:

DeMar DeRozan -/- Kobe Bryant

Skill: dribbling out of the trap

Every shooting guard in the NBA could spend their entire careers trying to mold their games after Kobe and only get a fraction of his ability into their arsenal. Nonetheless, DeRozan should be paying particular attention to how Kobe uses the dribble to prevent opposing defences from trapping him, especially along the baseline.

In recent weeks, teams have gotten wise to DeRozan's shaky handles, and they are increasingly working to trap him when he puts the ball on the floor, and DeRozan doesn't have a strong enough back-out move to counter their efforts. He needs to be able to recognize that the traps are coming sooner, and he has to be quicker to take one dribble back out of their trap and alter his trajectory. It takes recognition of the defence and a strong, efficient dribble to make that happen, and until he learns those things teams are going to continue to pressure and trap him into giving up the ball or turning it over.



Quote:

Amir Johnson -/- Kevin Garnett

Skill: defensive positioning

A lot of players could learn a lot of things from the way that KG plays the game. However, as it pertains to Johnson, whose game has leveled-off in his second year in Toronto, Garnett's mastery of defensive positioning would be a huge benefit to Johnson's game. Garnett knows how to use his body to steer players on the court, he knows how to deny position, while using his length to disrupt shots and passes. Johnson likes to rely too much on his athleticism, often ceding position and trying to reach instead of moving his feet and jumping to block shots he should simply contest with a hand up to make it more difficult. Johnson likes to stand too vertically, which limits his lateral mobility, whereas he should be down in a deep stance like Garnett, using his length to beat his man to positions on the floor.

Because Johnson is an active player, people assume that he's a good defender. He's not. He is slow to react on help, he never beats his man down the court in transition to deny deep post position and he gets caught flat footed far to often when his opponent drives by him. He needs to embrace how important positioning is as an NBA defender if he ever wants to be anything more than an energy guy off of the bench for a club serious about winning.


LINK - TSN.ca

gtanev 02-06-2011 10:29 AM

Nice analysis. Those are some good role models to look up to skill wise.

jeffb 02-06-2011 10:39 AM

You can always learn from the best. It's sad that we're telling our players to watch others to learn defensive positioning, would be nice if our coach had a clue.

LX 02-06-2011 10:52 AM

The coach doesn't have a clue? Based on what? Sounds like a lot of assumptions are being made there Jeff.

Triano likely has given Amir every indication where he would like him to be positioned and how to use his body. But knowing and doing are very different things. I disagree with Chisholm as far as thinking Amir has leveled off. He definitely needs to improve on defense to take that next step and be a legit starter, but at the same time I'd say that he has made improvements over last season, and as this season has progressed. He's one of those guys that can make use of the rest of this season to really raise his game, and Chisholm is right in pinpointing the areas that need to improve for that to happen - I just think a little nod to some progress is in order.

jeffb 02-06-2011 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 505236)
The coach doesn't have a clue? Based on what? Sounds like a lot of assumptions are being made there Jeff.

Triano likely has given Amir every indication where he would like him to be positioned and how to use his body. But knowing and doing are very different things. I disagree with Chisholm as far as thinking Amir has leveled off. He definitely needs to improve on defense to take that next step and be a legit starter, but at the same time I'd say that he has made improvements over last season, and as this season has progressed. He's one of those guys that can make use of the rest of this season to really raise his game, and Chisholm is right in pinpointing the areas that need to improve for that to happen - I just think a little nod to some progress is in order.

Our coach has absolutely no clue when it comes to teaching/coaching defense. JMHO

LX 02-06-2011 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 505242)
Our coach has absolutely no clue when it comes to teaching/coaching defense. JMHO

again - as far as Amir is concerned - based on what? You can't base your opinion on your honest opinion. What makes you suggest that Triano has not given Amir any indication of proper positioning?

jeffb 02-06-2011 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 505243)
again - as far as Amir is concerned - based on what? You can't base your opinion on your honest opinion. What makes you suggest that Triano has not given Amir any indication of proper positioning?

I'm more talking in general. I think Amir has pretty good instincts and the fact that he came up on a good defensive team in Detroit helped him in that reguard and the fact that he's been in the league 5yrs also helps.

Superjudge 02-06-2011 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 505242)
Our coach has absolutely no clue when it comes to teaching/coaching defense. JMHO

Oh trust me, you opinon really should be humble, very humble, unworthy even!!!

:mischief:

fresh n' spicy 02-06-2011 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 505242)
Our coach has absolutely no clue when it comes to teaching/coaching defense. JMHO

http://s.sfwgifs.com/img/1562/haters-gonna-hate.jpg

Shadowfax 02-06-2011 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 505236)
I just think a little nod to some progress is in order.

agreed
biggest concern for me regarding Amir was his ability to stay out of foul trouble this year...and it's pretty much become a non-issue now
i've seen a lot of progress from the young core...and Triano and staff should be applauded because of it
they still have a long way to go..but i like where they're headed

jeffb 02-06-2011 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 505249)
Oh trust me, you opinon really should be humble, very humble, unworthy even!!!

:mischief:

lol from you, whatever.

Can you seriously say that after almost 3 seasons that Triano is a good defensive coach?

Acie 02-06-2011 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 505273)
lol from you, whatever.

Can you seriously say that after almost 3 seasons that Triano is a good defensive coach?

Can you seriously say we have a player in the starting 5 that can adequately guard their own position?

jeffb 02-06-2011 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acie (Post 505275)
Can you seriously say we have a player in the starting 5 that can adequately guard their own position?

have? he's had how many players here in his almost 3 season. Sorry, but defense is coachable and he's got nobody under him to play defensive consistently. Not just this roster, not just last seasons roster, but even the first roster he coached. at some point people have to put aside the fact that he's canadian and hold him at least somewhat accountable.

LX 02-06-2011 12:12 PM

When he had Marion in the starting lineup they got some good results in spite of Bargnani. Jose has improved a great deal, particularly with respect to positioning and team defense. during the stretch where they won last season, it was largely due to improvements on the defensive end.

I have problems with Triano's approach. I think a fast-paced game hurts a team that has weak links defensively. And no matter what is taught - there are going to be weak links on this roster with regard to team defense. But to just make blanket statements about every aspect of his coaching tenure is a little brutal. And the canadian thing? Get off it already. Where do you see anyone in this thread giving a fuck about him being canadian?

fresh n' spicy 02-06-2011 12:20 PM

yes LX, a fast-paced game does the hurt the raps a bit defensively but i think its needed in order for the raps to get easy baskets on the offensive end. when this team plays half court offence it always seems other teams are able to grind out against the raptors and get the win because there talent level is better (besides cleveland, sacramento of course!)

LX 02-06-2011 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fresh n' spicy (Post 505287)
yes LX, a fast-paced game does the hurt the raps a bit defensively but i think its needed in order for the raps to get easy baskets on the offensive end. when this team plays half court offence it always seems other teams are able to grind out against the raptors and get the win because there talent level is better (besides cleveland, sacramento of course!)

I agree that a quicker pace gives them a chance at stealing a few games. But I think it hampers overall development. I also think it has to do with a certain amount of stubbornness, as they played the same way last season when they had the players that could execute in the half-court, and constantly gassed them out by the end of the third quarter. It doesn't just hurt a bit defensively, it gives them no chance defensively, and ultimately betrays the idea that they are a team that focusses on defense.

powerfulpanda 02-07-2011 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 505280)
have? he's had how many players here in his almost 3 season. Sorry, but defense is coachable and he's got nobody under him to play defensive consistently. Not just this roster, not just last seasons roster, but even the first roster he coached. at some point people have to put aside the fact that he's canadian and hold him at least somewhat accountable.

if you've played basketball before you know that everyone needs to pull their weight to play good TEAM DEFENSE. all it takes is one lazy person or one guy not doing their part and it'll ruin it. and during trianos tenure he's had jose and bargs

moremilk 02-07-2011 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 505230)
You can always learn from the best. It's sad that we're telling our players to watch others to learn defensive positioning, would be nice if our coach had a clue.

so, in your opinion, a group that includes triano (great international coaching career), english (hof nba scorer), PJ (worked under a coaching legend in san antonio), williams (a quality defender in his time) etc don't know more about basketball than chrisholm or yourself ????

come on, not even the biggest hater can't think something like that. If you want to claim that triano is willingly favouring offense over defense and doesn't want to commit the time to defensive schemes, or that his defensive schemes suck, or that his defensive philosophy sucks - ok, you have a right to argue things like that. But don't claim the coaching staff can't spot defensive issues that are obvious to the average fan/journalist ...

b55bgc 02-07-2011 04:21 PM

Its frustrating for us watching our defense crumble some nights.

"What the Fuck Ya Gonna do!"

FoldedLaundry 02-08-2011 01:05 AM

Our advantage is that we're young, athletic, and quick. So it makes sense that playing a fast pace game and running up and down is our game plan. If we're going to be playoff team or get any better, we need a better half court offense which in turn will help in our defense. As always, we also need to work on our defense. Amir and DD have stepped up from last year on defense, there's some improvement. Amir stays longer in games and DD can guard his man from time to time.


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