Chisholm Breaks Down BC's Worst Moves
Old 05-05-2011, 09:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
#NorthernUprising

Next year...
 
js12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: T.O.
Posts: 5,477
Representing:
Default Chisholm Breaks Down BC's Worst Moves

3. JO Trade

Quote:
The issue with acquiring Jermaine was the price that the team paid to get him. Coming off of a rather humbling defeat against the Orlando Magic in the first round the Playoffs, the Raptors had a bounty of needs. In addition to needing a defensive center, they needed team-wide rebounding, improvement at the small forward spot, better shot-creation on the wings and an overall upgrade in the talent level of the team. To acquire those assets the Raptors had Rasho Nesterovic's $8.4-million expiring contract, they had the 17th pick in the NBA draft and they had T.J. Ford, who had become redundant after the emergence of Jose Calderon. Those were the three big assets that the team had to play with that summer in their pursuit of improving their talent base. In an act of overwhelming hubris, however, Colangelo used all three assets to acquire O'Neal and deprived the team of the chance to improve several other areas of want that summer. His acquisition severely depleted the team's talent reserves, forced them to give extended minutes to Joey Graham, Jason Kapono, Will Solomon and Kris Humphries and basically cost Sam Mitchell his job and the Raptors a shot at returning to the Playoffs. It also left the team's three best players (Chris Bosh, Andrea Bargnani and O'Neal) as three true power forwards, meaning that not only did he create tremendous positional redundancy but he also forced his best players to spend lots of time playing out of position just to keep them on the court. Despite these drawbacks Colangelo felt the deal was worth the gamble, but you didn't need hindsight to know he was damning himself before the season even started.

In the NBA, you cannot ignore the virtues of depth. Unless your top-six players are SO good that they can take on the additional burden of replacing an injured player's production, you basically have to have a reserve of talent to draw on to keep you afloat for the duration of an 82-game season. When Colangelo traded all of his assets in one trade to acquire one player, he basically said that Chris Bosh, Jose Calderon, Jermaine O'Neal and Andrea Bargnani were going to be enough to carry his Raptors DEEPER into the Playoffs than they had been the year before with a glorified D-League team backing them up. The assemblage didn't even last a whole year, as Colangelo dumped O'Neal on Miami to get Shawn Marion to Toronto, which actually may have salvaged the whole affair had he not ran headlong into the second biggest blunder of his tenure as Toronto's GM immediately thereafter.
2. Turkoglu S&T

Quote:
Of course, that's not what happened. In the summer of 2009 the free agent class was pathetically weak in terms of top-tier star power. That meant Colangelo, armed with only $10-million in cap space, could land the summer's big fish and he couldn't resist the opportunity to do so. Hedo Turkoglu was coming off an electric run to the NBA Finals with the Orlando Magic and Colangelo felt he could bring the kind of matchup headaches that had flummoxed Orlando's Playoff opponents to Toronto in his last-ditch bid to convince Chris Bosh to stay a Raptor for the long-term. He even managed to orchestrate the acquisition without dumping all of his assets (again) by turning the signing into a complicated four-team sign-and-trade transaction, which allowed him to fill out the rest of the team with actual NBA players. With all of the hoopla surrounding the netting the summer's top free agent, though, he never seemed to stop and seriously consider WHY he was spurning Marion and signing Turkoglu in his place, and the Raptors paid dearly for his hastiness and reckless abandon.

What Turkoglu wound up bringing to Toronto was redundancy. His biggest strength, his playmaking abilities, required him to have the ball in his hands, but Toronto already had a ball-dominating point guard in Jose Calderon and they weren't inclined to trade him in the wake of acquiring Hedo. Without his playmaking abilities to fall back on Hedo is just a low-percentage shooter that doesn't play particularly great defense, doesn't run the floor well and has a reputation for being ornery when things don't go his way (see his one year in San Antonio). Toronto didn't have the environment to make him thrive, and as a result he stumbled through his worst year since playing his single season for the Spurs.
1. Jason Kapono

Quote:
What the Raptors needed, though, was clear. They needed defense and rebounding. They were ranked 21st in field-goal percentage against that season and they were 27th in the league in rebounds per game. Going into an off-season without a draft pick, cap space or available trade pieces, they had to spend their mid-level exception wisely to maintain and improve upon their unexpected winning momentum. When a young team suddenly improves and crashes the Playoff party, it takes tremendous front office dexterity to not backslide the subsequent year, as the 2011 Milwaukee Bucks and Charlotte Bobcats will attest to. What did the Raptors do? They signed Jason Kapono, a three-point specialist, to their full mid-level exception. Lunacy.

Why is it lunacy? Because the Raptors were already one of the best three-point shooting teams in the NBA. Instead of the Raptors actually addressing an area of need like defense (Mickael Pietrus, Matt Barnes) or rebounding (Brandon Bass) they signed a terrible defender and non-rebounder for their full mid-level exception - with the maximum five years, no less - so that they could shoot more threes than the high-percentage looks they were already getting from Parker, Calderon and Bargnani. Colangelo actually made a savvy move to acquire Carlos Delfino prior to signing Kapono, which helped keep the Raptors afloat that season (of course, you could also interpret that move as making a Kapono signing that much more redundant), but that couldn't completely stop the backslide that was about to happen.
Chisholm: Rating Colangelo's worst moves as Raptors GM
js12 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2011, 09:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,298
Representing:
Default

They turned out to be his worst moves, but with the possible exception of Kapono (which i liked at the time, even if we overpayed) the other two moves were very popular and made a shit load of sense when made.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2011, 09:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
contemplating

The Killing Joke

 
Claudius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burkina Faso, Disputed Zone
Posts: 10,024
Representing:
Send a message via MSN to Claudius
Default

I hated the Kapono signing. I really, really wanted Pietrus here to replace Mo. I was really shocked when we signed a guy who was coming from a team where he benefited playing with Wade and Shaq getting him open looks.

The JO trade, meh. We needed size with Bargnani looking soft that series. Plus, it gave us potential cap space. The biggest mistake (imo) was rushing to deal him that February. It really looked like there was no plan in place.

And Turkoglu S+T was actually brilliant. Signing Turkoglu outright would've been dumb.
Claudius is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2011, 09:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
#NorthernUprising

Next year...
 
js12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: T.O.
Posts: 5,477
Representing:
Default

I liked the JO trade at the time it was made. As Claudius mentioned the S&T was a really good move. Instead of getting one player and losing all depth, Colangelo managed to turn nearly nothing at that time (although Humps has improved of late) into A. Wright and eventually Marco Belinelli.

The Kapono signing was terrible. A lot of fans disagreed at the time and were right. Instead of getting Pietrius, who mutually wanted to be a Raptor, we went with Kapono. That season could have turned out very differently if Bryan just went with the popular decision.
js12 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2011, 09:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
raptor jesus

Senior Member
 
Don Vito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,917
Representing:
Default

These were all good moves at the time.. so I don't like how its called 'worst moves'.
Don Vito is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2011, 10:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,682
Representing:
Default

I think the main point - and it's a good one - is that too much was given up for too little. He came here with flexibility and every opportunity to put a plan in place. After starting off well he moved too fast without the proper care. There was redundancy magnified many times over in terms of certain kinds of players, and utter neglect in terms of other areas of concern. He came close to filling a whole ton of needs two years ago, but again it ended up being too much without getting a sense of what the core of the team was built on or how it would be strengthened. This team under Colangelo has always felt like it's pulled in too many directions.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 03:35 AM   #7 (permalink)
playoffs please dont end

FTMFW
 
Shifty.py's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,595
Representing:
Default

I disagree on the ranking. JO deal shoudl be in first, because it set up ground for Marion trade (and subsequent losing of Bosh) and for Hedo signing.

All three moves have one thing in common.
Too loud.
Going over top, paying big money, putting all eggs in one basket, hope a splashy move will make a splash in team performance.
At number 4 is probably Calderon signing. Again, pompous promotion to starting PG, solving the PG controversy etc. Many years, big bucks. Not noticing the apparent problems.

All BC's "best" moves were small under the radar tweaks that nobody thought would make a difference
Shifty.py is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 03:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
likes the consistency in the colangelo built raptors

Senior Member
 
rapsmannn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,427
Representing:
Default

say what you want say about hte BC but I'll guess your favorite two Raptors are Ed Davis and Demar Derozan

well BC is responsible for both of them,

andrea is one of favorites also, obviously not the best player in his draft but at least top 5 guy, I know majority raptor fans hate him and have no patience for his slacking but i'm on the other end, I see a guy who gets better every year and won't be surprised if he finally rounds out his game this year, he finally got to do what he always wanted to on offense in the nba wouldnt be surprised if he brought hsi shotblocking back and a couple more rebound and better help defense
rapsmannn is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 07:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
Sick, Wicked, and Nasty!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudius View Post
I hated the Kapono signing. I really, really wanted Pietrus here to replace Mo. I was really shocked when we signed a guy who was coming from a team where he benefited playing with Wade and Shaq getting him open looks.

The JO trade, meh. We needed size with Bargnani looking soft that series. Plus, it gave us potential cap space. The biggest mistake (imo) was rushing to deal him that February. It really looked like there was no plan in place.

And Turkoglu S+T was actually brilliant. Signing Turkoglu outright would've been dumb.
well it wasn't BC's fault that pietrus didn't want to come here, or at least he wanted to go to other places over here
Admiral is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 08:37 AM   #10 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,132
Representing:
Default

Trouble I have is with Chisholm's suggestion that BC spurned Marion. He offered him a contract! One almost exactly like the one he eventually signed - I believe he ended up with one more year, at slightly less per year than BC offered. Marion simply didn't want to be here.

As for the JO complaint - giving up too much? Clearly he chose the wrong guy to give it up for (in hindsight, I liked the move at the time, it was gutsy), but Chisholm lists those assets way over their value.

A 17th overall pick? That was never going to be more than a (tiny) bit of grease for a bigger trade. So it really is not a trade-able asset in and of itself.

And expiring contracts, more often than not, are used as cap filler in exactly the way Rasho's was used - again, as grease to a) get the trade to work and b) sell the other team on the trade.

Finally, TJ was a perpetually injured, declining point guard, who was way overpaid (remember he was paid roughly the same amount as Jose is, and was never much more effective even at his best, let alone at the time of the trade). What exactly did people expect to get for him? I thought this trade was a good way to solve the TJ issue, while using only minimal assets (one expiring, and a crappy pick) and bringing back something that really excited people about the team. Sure, it blew up in our faces, but at the time it seemed to me like a gamble worth making.

Can't argue with the Kapono signing. Disaster in every sense of the word.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 09:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
contemplating

The Killing Joke

 
Claudius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burkina Faso, Disputed Zone
Posts: 10,024
Representing:
Send a message via MSN to Claudius
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
well it wasn't BC's fault that pietrus didn't want to come here, or at least he wanted to go to other places over here
Then you give almost full mle to a 3 pt shooter? And I don't ever remember hearing that Pietrus DIDN'T want to come here.
Claudius is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 09:29 AM   #12 (permalink)
blah!

nosce te ipsum


 
fancylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: east side.
Posts: 14,625
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
These were all good moves at the time.. so I don't like how its called 'worst moves'.
totally disagree. They were all deemed failures within a few months of actually having been put to test on the court. It's not like things looked a certain way and then they fell apart. The results of these moves looked horrid pretty early on.

I'd like to defend Colangelo, but the man made some big mistakes.
fancylad is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 09:40 AM   #13 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,298
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
totally disagree. They were all deemed failures within a few months of actually having been put to test on the court. It's not like things looked a certain way and then they fell apart. The results of these moves looked horrid pretty early on.

I'd like to defend Colangelo, but the man made some big mistakes.
Which is why he said at the time, not a few months later.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 09:48 AM   #14 (permalink)
blah!

nosce te ipsum


 
fancylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: east side.
Posts: 14,625
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Which is why he said at the time, not a few months later.
ya well too bad you don't judge a trade "at the time," but you actually see how it looks when the players actually play. Furthermore it wasn't even a good trade 'at the time.' It may have LOOKED like a good trade, but looks can be deceiving as they so often are.
fancylad is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 09:54 AM   #15 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,298
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
ya well too bad you don't judge a trade "at the time," but you actually see how it looks when the players actually play. Furthermore it wasn't even a good trade 'at the time.' It may have LOOKED like a good trade, but looks can be deceiving as they so often are.
You don't? Fuck we analyze them before they happen. But seriously, the deals being discussed here made a lot of sense when they were made. I remember Webber saying the Raps had one of the best front courts in the east with JO/CB early that season. As for the Turkoglu deal, it was deemed huge since he was the biggest FA that summer. The fact that they didn't pan out isn't the GM's fault imo. Even the Kapono signing, overpaying aside, we needed a 3pt shooter and he signed a 50% 3pt shooter.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 10:01 AM   #16 (permalink)
blah!

nosce te ipsum


 
fancylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: east side.
Posts: 14,625
Representing:
Default

you're right sorry jeff. they were all awesome trades.

Seriously dude. how can you say they were good moves at any point time when the team became shitty or shittier as a result?

Clearly we are not on the same wave length. As i said they may have SEEMED or LOOKED good at the time, but after a little waiting we all realized that they were failures.
fancylad is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 10:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
blah!

nosce te ipsum


 
fancylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: east side.
Posts: 14,625
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
The fact that they didn't pan out isn't the GM's fault imo. Even the Kapono signing, overpaying aside, we needed a 3pt shooter and he signed a 50% 3pt shooter.
Who's fucking fault was it then? He was the one that made the moves!
fancylad is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 10:03 AM   #18 (permalink)
contemplating

The Killing Joke

 
Claudius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burkina Faso, Disputed Zone
Posts: 10,024
Representing:
Send a message via MSN to Claudius
Default

Jeff, I don't ever recall needing a 3 pt shooter the summer Kapono was signed. The guy was coming off a system which played to his strengths with a dominant post player and a slasher. I remember HATING the deal, because it was full MLE. If we gave half, then great. But, it was terrible.
Claudius is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 10:05 AM   #19 (permalink)
contemplating

The Killing Joke

 
Claudius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burkina Faso, Disputed Zone
Posts: 10,024
Representing:
Send a message via MSN to Claudius
Default

BC biggest fault in all of his moves, was not establishing any sort of team identity and never really adding pieces to compliment what was here. Instead, it was a home run swing after a home run swing (attempts).
Claudius is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 10:06 AM   #20 (permalink)
Exalted

Senior Member
 
DDUnreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,332
Representing:
Default

BC is the Bautista of GM's how can you not be happy with that
DDUnreal is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24