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-   -   Charley Rosen puts TJ Ford on all loser team list (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/charley-rosen-puts-tj-ford-all-loser-team-list-107.html)

raptor123 12-08-2007 10:27 PM

Charley Rosen puts TJ Ford on all loser team list
 
Just read an article by Fox Network Charley Rosen on the all loser team. He has TJ Ford on the list.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7538628

T. J. Ford, who tries to do too much in the clutch, and usually winds up doing not enough.

Well there it is folks more and more people are starting to see that TJ just might not be the guy that starts and closes the games. First, I heard on raptors t.v. by our own Leo Rautins that Jose should be starting now this article. Like I stated many times we need both, I like Jose starting and playing more minutes and TJ coming of the bench and playing like allen iverson.

Dr. J. Naismith 12-08-2007 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raptor123 (Post 1058)
Just read an article by Fox Network Charley Rosen on the all loser team. He has TJ Ford on the list.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7538628

T. J. Ford, who tries to do too much in the clutch, and usually winds up doing not enough.

Well there it is folks more and more people are starting to see that TJ just might not be the guy that starts and closes the games. First, I heard on raptors t.v. by our own Leo Rautins that Jose should be starting now this article. Like I stated many times we need both, I like Jose starting and playing more minutes and TJ coming of the bench and playing like allen iverson.

So tell me raptor123, what do you think of T.J.? ;)

raptor123 12-09-2007 01:10 AM

Well Doc, how about this..... TJ is somthing like a pitching prospect for the major leagues.He throws gas 95 mph plus but has difficulty finding the plate. He dosn't have a second pitch so hitters sit on his fast ball.When TJ gets roughed up because hes a one pitch guy with gas he still tries to over power guys by trying to over throw. As he tries to pump it up to 100 mph he again his pitches go all over the place. So doc this is what i think of TJ....... a guy who has gas but does not know how to pitch, he has the tools but just needs to learn that speed is not everything. Maybe if he slows down alittle he might be able to throw strikes, the ball will be put in play giving his team a chance to make outs. Doc he has all the tools but I am starting to wonder if he has mentality to be a great pitcher( point guard). :rolleyes:

Dr. J. Naismith 12-09-2007 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raptor123 (Post 1067)
Well Doc, how about this..... TJ is somthing like a pitching prospect for the major leagues.He throws gas 95 mph plus but has difficulty finding the plate. He dosn't have a second pitch so hitters sit on his fast ball.When TJ gets roughed up because hes a one pitch guy with gas he still tries to over power guys by trying to over throw. As he tries to pump it up to 100 mph he again his pitches go all over the place. So doc this is what i think of TJ....... a guy who has gas but does not know how to pitch, he has the tools but just needs to learn that speed is not everything. Maybe if he slows down alittle he might be able to throw strikes, the ball will be put in play giving his team a chance to make outs. Doc he has all the tools but I am starting to wonder if he has mentality to be a great pitcher( point guard). :rolleyes:

A great analogy if I've ever heard one. ;)

Anyhow, like you I think Jose is better for this team, but I've noticed on multiple message boards that Ford seems to be the problem of all this teams issues which isn't fair at all if you ask me. Just as much people complain about Sam, well the players have to be accountable too. But in Ford case with his SG mentality, its time for Sam to be accountable and sit the man down to get him on board ala Jose to move and distribute the ball on offense instead of sprinting to the hoop immediatley or putting on a dribbling clinic of 23 seconds not passing it once before shooting. Smitch needs to flex his muscle and put Ford in his place. JMO

LX 12-10-2007 02:02 PM

Great - TJ joins Dirk and Chris Webber on the all-loser team. Who does Jose get to play with?

And to be even more fair - Jose has been known to dribble forever without passing himself. In fact - if you want to look at who uses up the shot clock more, I would suggest you look in Jose's direction.

lets go raptors 12-15-2007 04:36 PM

still in disbelief
 
are we all raptor fans here? does anyone here really watch the games consistently? if so... i think its pretty obvious that jose is a better long term fit for the team... t.j. has medical issues, along with his decision making that hurts the team in the short and long run(IMO). As far as i can see with Jose, he is very durable,... he has the highest assist to turnover ratio in the league... which includes nash, williams, kidd....the list goes on. ,...he still shoots at a better percentage than ford.... and he's an all around better defender than ford..(as we seen what jason kidd and other point guards can do to a short point guard as t.j) ....its common sense to me

He gets the ball to our shooters,....Kapono had his best game when t.j. was out of the line up... kris humphries, bosh, parker... all benefit from his unselfishness.... personally i would take set plays over t.j's rushed shots anyday

people argue that Jose plays against lesser opponents, ( i guess cause he doesn't get the opportunity to start... but have you seen his numbers as a starter? absolutely insane... he's putting up all-star like numbers (most recently 18-points 16 assists against Indiana.....

Ford is a good player... but its like baron davis, steve francis, marbury or nash....who would you pick if this was 6 years ago?...:cool:

ClingRap 12-15-2007 05:30 PM

Im getting really tired of these kind of posts. You know, ones who only see the good in jose's game and the bad in TJ's, and then base their rather weak analysis on these factors. It's tiring, always refuting such drivel. It's like TJ's complete scorching of the Hawks was an anomaly. I love both of these guys, equally, because they do different things that I dont think any one point guard, or combo can do.
I find it distasteful that you say ford is a good player in the end of your post. It's like you're just throwing TJ a bone after completely discrediting his value to this team. LX made the point earlier in the thread that if you choose to see it, then you'll see that Jose is a pounder of the ball.
Believing is seeing in this example, and if you believe that Jose is supreme than you're going to miss the nuances that TJ brings to the table.
The biggest reason why Jose has fewer turnovers is that he takes less risks with the ball. Which is why these guys are a great combo. I think having them both on the same roster, playing against each other, competing against each other, will only bring out the best in both of their games. Jose can teach TJ to recognize when to pull back, and be a bit more careful with his decision making, while TJ can show Jose when to take some risks with the ball, like that lob he held back on last night when bosh went back door on foster, only to force the play two possessions later which resulted in a turnover because the defence was expecting it.

rather than counter by showing you that bosh et al benefit from the play of TJ, I'll just leave it at the fact that if you haven't seen what TJ is capable of then me making examples is rather pointless.

lets go raptors 12-15-2007 06:00 PM

rather than counter by showing you that bosh et al benefit from the play of TJ, I'll just leave it at the fact that if you haven't seen what TJ is capable of then me making examples is rather pointless.[/quote]


honestly....i like t.j's game, i want to make that clear.,...i know exactly what he's capable of... so do teams around the league...BUT..in my opinion jose's game is more consistent and more useful to the team

I see what the raptors can do without ford...win 8 out of their last 11 games....thats with ford missing games and not starting....he might've started one or 2 games in that stretch.....where would we be without calderon?


Just being honest.... and thats against teams such as dallas, phoenix, boston, houston,..... very tough teams

if its ford or calderon.... which it seems like it wil be eventually.... i choose calderon..... lets see who bryan colangelo chooses;):cool:

alseaf 12-15-2007 07:03 PM

okay people.
Here's my two cents.

In order to determine who should have what role on this team, it is essential to treat them as equals. So, in this case, lets assume that Jose and TJ got an equal amount of money (even though in reality Tj makes a lot more). We must also throw out all past expeiences of both players (i.e. we should only focus our comparison on their skills that they posses TODAY). It is not beyond reach to suggest that Jose is a more capable passing PG than Tj. Similarily, Tj is more refined offensively than Jose. Next, we assume that both players are keeping their ego in check and would not object or make demands regarding their roles on the team (they value team winning rather than individual glory). In this case, I would not see who would object to starting Jose (without havign to worry about shattered egos) to get our offense going early and keeping everyone involved, and have Tj come in and GO OFF on opposing team's bench. Can you imagine how easailly he'd eave into the paint, draw fouls and blow past defenders for easy buckets? (Look at what the Mavericks are doing with Jason Terry) Tj can thus, run the secondary unit and look to produce by going up against the opposing team's backups and get us back into games or increase a pre-existing lead...

So the question on my mind is this:
Is sam starting Tj over jose for the fact that he's paid much more, and having a backup PG who gets paid more than the starter is such a TABOO? or are they closer to each other friendship-wise? I'm saying this because it seems to me that A LOT of people seem to thing that starting TJ is a good idea, yet the coach obviously doesn't think so ( he started TJ on the second game back from injury, even though Jose was on a meaaaan streak of double doubles and ran the team exceptionally well b4 that).

Tell me what you think.

Raptors1995 12-06-2012 05:57 PM

Quote:

Charley Rosen puts TJ Ford on all loser team list
??

jeffb 12-06-2012 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raptor123 (Post 1058)

T. J. Ford, who tries to do too much in the clutch, and usually winds up doing not enough.


This guy doesn't change his tune does he? Even 5yrs ago he had a hard on for Jose. :lol:


TJ was HERO #1?

Kirby 12-06-2012 06:05 PM

I didn't realize he had been trolling since 07, although back then he probably did have a point.

pzabby 12-06-2012 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirby (Post 715901)
I didn't realize he had been trolling since 07, although back then he probably did have a point.

t.j pre injury was a better option than manuel calderon, even though back then calderon could actually still run around at pace. we had a great two pronged attack at the point then, same now with a better lowry and worse jose. now the other 4 positions... and we're on our way to a championship baby!

Ball Don't Lie 12-06-2012 06:20 PM

TJ was awesome pre injury. I too can't believe raptor123 was trolling all the way back then. Has he ever been warned/suspended? He must have the record for trolling on a messageboard without facing a penalty.

pzabby 12-06-2012 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie (Post 715908)
TJ was awesome pre injury. I too can't believe raptor123 was trolling all the way back then. Has he ever been warned/suspended? He must have the record for trolling on a messageboard without facing a penalty.

his trolling isn't a type to get him a warning I don't think. scary part is I don't think he's actually trolling.. I think he may really think manuel is our savior..


-shudder-

raptor123 12-06-2012 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzabby (Post 715912)
his trolling isn't a type to get him a warning I don't think. scary part is I don't think he's actually trolling.. I think he may really think manuel is our savior..


-shudder-

I have mentioned numerous times over the years what my thoughts were regarding pg position. I still believe that Calderon is the better fit for our team right now. Lowry is 2 guard playing in a pg body. Its nice to go back in time and see how right i was with my opinions....it justs jeffb fucking crazy ...surprised he not even in lunny bin lol !!!

jeffb 12-06-2012 06:45 PM

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma...0gif%20448x346

Mobat 12-06-2012 06:46 PM

Pretty funny how the all team loser left the Raptors after 2 winning seasons and his backup comes in and we have 5 miserable losing seasons in a row LOL

jeffb 12-06-2012 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzabby (Post 715907)
t.j pre injury was a better option than manuel calderon, even though back then calderon could actually still run around at pace. we had a great two pronged attack at the point then, same now with a better lowry and worse jose. now the other 4 positions... and we're on our way to a championship baby!


+1000

Dario 12-06-2012 06:48 PM

almost every one of the players we get turns out to be an upset


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