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-   -   Chad Ford: Tank Rank, Ujiri shopping KL & DD? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/chad-ford-tank-rank-ujiri-shopping-kl-dd-26202.html)

jeffb 12-16-2013 01:08 PM

Chad Ford: Tank Rank, Ujiri shopping KL & DD?
 
NBA: Tank Rank -- Waiting for the big reveal - ESPN

Quote:

Rudy Gay's absence hasn't had the tanking effect GM Masai Ujiri had hoped for. In fact, the Raptors are 3-1 since the trade. That's why Ujiri is out working hard to move more veterans like Kyle Lowry and DeMar DeRozan. Lowry should be pretty easy to move. DeRozan will be tougher.GMs are even more interested in trying to pry away Jonas Valanciunas and Amir Johnson, I'm told. Valanciunas is virtually untouchable and it would take a pretty high draft pick to pry away Johnson, who is playing the best ball of his career right now (averaging 20 points and 9 rebounds in his past five games).


His tank rank:

1. Bucks
2. 76ers
3. Jazz
4. Raps
5. Magic
6. Kings
7. Cavs
8. Bobcats
9. Celtics
10. Bulls

Carlos Danger 12-16-2013 01:16 PM

Good to hear, but not sure if I'd rather see Demar or Amir go.

creative1mm 12-16-2013 01:24 PM

Quote:

Good to hear, but not sure if I'd rather see Demar or Amir go.
Tough one.. I like them both, Maybe let DD go..

Thug 12-16-2013 01:31 PM

Amir deserves the fruits of his labour.

He should be here when the franchise has its best moments.

Not saying DeMar shouldn't but Amir especially should.

niggles 12-16-2013 01:33 PM

Ford's premise is bad. Masai wasn't hoping that effect of moving Rudy would be to weaken the team. I believe Masai, that the on court chemistry wasn't working with Rudy on the team.

creative1mm 12-16-2013 01:55 PM

Quote:

Ford's premise is bad. Masai wasn't hoping that effect of moving Rudy would be to weaken the team. I believe Masai, that the on court chemistry wasn't working with Rudy on the team.
Exactly.. Ujiri is smart, he is being patient.. raps are winning a little.. it will probably take a stretch of bad games before more moves are made, but it seems as though he is just going with the flow

tyguy94 12-16-2013 01:57 PM

I wonder what Amir could realistically net us? A late teens pick?

jeffb 12-16-2013 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niggles (Post 843648)
Ford's premise is bad. Masai wasn't hoping that effect of moving Rudy would be to weaken the team. I believe Masai, that the on court chemistry wasn't working with Rudy on the team.

Anyone looking at that deal and thinking it was a tank move was a little delusional imo.

DanH 12-16-2013 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 843654)
Anyone looking at that deal and thinking it was a tank move was a little delusional imo.

I looked at that deal and saw that Ujiri had given up on the team as constructed, and had decided to move on from this core. Gay is gone. Lowry is being shopped. Judging by the returns that the Raptors are rumoured to be pushing for in Lowry negotiations, winning now is not the priority.

The tank is coming folks. Ignore the signs all you want now, but don't say we didn't warn you.

Tommy C 12-16-2013 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 843654)
Anyone looking at that deal and thinking it was a tank move was a little delusional imo.

I hate to admit but I agree with jeffb :mu:

jeffb 12-16-2013 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanH (Post 843657)
I looked at that deal and saw that Ujiri had given up on the team as constructed, and had decided to move on from this core. Gay is gone. Lowry is being shopped. Judging by the returns that the Raptors are rumoured to be pushing for in Lowry negotiations, winning now is not the priority.

The tank is coming folks. Ignore the signs all you want now, but don't say we didn't warn you.

Even the Lowry trade, you think Felton is that bad as a backup to Vasquez? Really? I'm no Felton fan but he's an adequate backup...far better than Stone/Buycks

moremilk 12-16-2013 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 843654)
Anyone looking at that deal and thinking it was a tank move was a little delusional imo.

you mean everybody outside anti-tankers are delusional? I haven't seen ONE person outside this board making this point. Not even one of those "I know it's crazy, but what if Masai traded gay hoping the team will be better without him" type of articles/comments.

and again, even if that wouldn't be enough proof, are you going to claim trading lowry is also not a pro-tank action?

I mean, I guess it's possible for us to trade everybody but JV, win 15 games all season, and still claim that masai didn't tank, he just wanted to create cap flexibility - it's not like he will ever come out and admit tanking.

But look at it this way, before the season, most pro-tankers were asking for gay and lowry to be traded, perhaps demar too. If Masai does that, you may not call it a tank move, but I guarantee that all pro-tankers will be very happy :)

Don Vito 12-16-2013 02:10 PM

Move Lowry and DD, we will be on pace for a great tank.

Vasquez
Ross
Salmons
Amir
JV

DanH 12-16-2013 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 843660)
Even the Lowry trade, you think Felton is that bad as a backup to Vasquez? Really? I'm no Felton fan but he's an adequate backup...far better than Stone/Buycks

OK, so going from Lowry-Vasquez to Vasquez-Felton is a winning move to you?

We differ greatly on what winning entails.

bjjs 12-16-2013 02:14 PM

The move was inconclusive as to tipping the hand of Ujiri since it pleased both sides of the tanking fence. Going with the flow imo is the best description of the move.

fancylad 12-16-2013 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 843654)
Anyone looking at that deal and thinking it was a tank move was a little delusional imo.

how can you say that given what he said right around the time of that trade? He's refuses to end up in no mans land right? Well guess where we are right now. Capital of no mans land.

I mean we'll see what the next move is. The Gay move is surely the first step of the process, but if you think he made that trade to win now, then i think you're delusional.

jeffb 12-16-2013 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moremilk (Post 843662)
you mean everybody outside anti-tankers are delusional? I haven't seen ONE person outside this board making this point. Not even one of those "I know it's crazy, but what if Masai traded gay hoping the team will be better without him" type of articles/comments.

and again, even if that wouldn't be enough proof, are you going to claim trading lowry is also not a pro-tank action?

I mean, I guess it's possible for us to trade everybody but JV, win 15 games all season, and still claim that masai didn't tank, he just wanted to create cap flexibility - it's not like he will ever come out and admit tanking.

But look at it this way, before the season, most pro-tankers were asking for gay and lowry to be traded, perhaps demar too. If Masai does that, you may not call it a tank move, but I guarantee that all pro-tankers will be very happy :)


Trading Lowry (along w/Gay) alone doesn't say tank imo. Vasquez/Felton is pretty good PG depth. I've said it before and i will continue to say it again, if we are truely tanking Amir/DD would be traded or at least one of them. Lowry being traded means little other than MU looking to get something for an expiring player he knows he won't bring back.

Vasquez/Felton/Stone
Derozan/Fields/Shump or THJ
Ross/Salmons/Novak
Amir/TH/Patterson
JoVal/Amir/Hayes

^ Sorry, but that's not a tank team at all (assuming we get Felton + one of Shumpert/THJ). That is a team in no man's land at worst. Obviously the Lowry deal likely won't be all he does but for now that is all we have to go on.

niggles 12-16-2013 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fancylad (Post 843668)
how can you say that given what he said right around the time of that trade? He's refuses to end up in no mans land right? Well guess where we are right now. Capital of no mans land.

I mean we'll see what the next move is. The Gay move is surely the first step of the process, but if you think he made that trade to win now, then i think you're delusional.

No one said the trade was made to " win now". The trade was made because the on-court chemistry wasn't working.

jeffb 12-16-2013 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fancylad (Post 843668)
how can you say that given what he said right around the time of that trade? He's refuses to end up in no mans land right? Well guess where we are right now. Capital of no mans land.

I mean we'll see what the next move is. The Gay move is surely the first step of the process, but if you think he made that trade to win now, then i think you're delusional.

Win now? Where did i say that? But it certainly didn't say let's blow this fucker up. I do agree that we're in no man's land, and we will still be there after Lowry is moved imo unless one of DD/Amir is sent with him. Sorry but that Gay trade was not a tank move whatsoever. We didn't even get a draft pick.

fancylad 12-16-2013 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 843671)
Win now? Where did i say that? But it certainly didn't say let's blow this fucker up. I do agree that we're in no man's land, and we will still be there after Lowry is moved imo unless one of DD/Amir is sent with him. Sorry but that Gay trade was not a tank move whatsoever. We didn't even get a draft pick.

i didn't say you said it. Ujiri implied it. Again the whole no mans land comment. No mans land is anything in between a a proper rebuild and going for it now. So.... you have option a and option b. Which do you think ujiri had mind when he traded gay?


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