Chad Ford: Tank Rank, Ujiri shopping KL & DD? - Page 2
Old 12-16-2013, 01:32 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I agree with you JeffB regarding Lowry...Felton/Vasquez isn't necessarily that much worse then Lowry/Vasquez, depending on what other pieces are involved. Lowry is hot right now and Felton is not, when they're both at their best they aren't that far from eachother.

And making a move for future benefits doesn't necessarily mean that Ujiri wants to lose as many games as possible.

Going with the flow. And trading Gay made us a better team....clearly.
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:37 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I agree with you JeffB regarding Lowry...Felton/Vasquez isn't necessarily that much worse then Lowry/Vasquez, depending on what other pieces are involved. Lowry is hot right now and Felton is not, when they're both at their best they aren't that far from eachother.

And making a move for future benefits doesn't necessarily mean that Ujiri wants to lose as many games as possible.

Going with the flow. And trading Gay made us a better team....clearly.
It also removed the team from the potentially cap-crippling player option that Gay had for next-year at 19.3 million.
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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what did he mean by no man's land? He could have very well meant that he would not be stuck as a middling team in the long run. That he would ensure there is flexibility and a path forward, or in fact many paths forward.

I still continue to contend that Masai is about leaving as many options open as possible and not getting handcuffed. If Lowry is traded, it will have to do mostly with getting value for a player he cannot plan around. If the team loses a bunch of games it loses a bunch of games and he goes from there. If it wins a bunch of games then it wins a bunch of games and he goes from there. And in each case there will be multiple options stemming off from the results at hand.

I said weeks ago that this team could be better without Gay and Lowry. We get way too caught up with talent level and fail to scrutinize team play. Lowry is playing really well with this team right now, so it's hard to see an improvement with him gone, but they might not be significantly worse. And that would not be such a horrible thing. It would mean the value of a lot of the bit pieces would go up, and they could bring back some good returns in a package deal.

Masai is surely looking down the road with everything right now. And I think that means that engineering a losing season in the here and now is not on his plate so much. Not at this point yet, unless he has for certain decided that guys like DeMar and Amir are not what he sees in the long view, in which case he's crazy to keep them any longer than he needs to. We'll see how that goes now that there is a larger pool of tradeable players post-dec 15. I'm good with whatever he does, precisely because I see it as not being some ultimate decision, but rather a path towards fulfilling a complete plan that goes beyond capping out without enough to become elite, and also goes beyond putting everything on the upcoming draft.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:07 PM   #24 (permalink)
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It also removed the team from the potentially cap-crippling player option that Gay had for next-year at 19.3 million.
+1
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:14 PM   #25 (permalink)
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LMAO going from Lowry to Felton is two steps down in every aspect. Apparently some people don't watch fat - ass Felton lmao
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:15 PM   #26 (permalink)
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LMAO going from Lowry to Felton is two steps down in every aspect. Apparently some people don't watch fat - ass Felton lmao
He'd be the backup.

Last edited by LX; 12-16-2013 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Please
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:44 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Trading Lowry (along w/Gay) alone doesn't say tank imo. Vasquez/Felton is pretty good PG depth. I've said it before and i will continue to say it again, if we are truely tanking Amir/DD would be traded or at least one of them. Lowry being traded means little other than MU looking to get something for an expiring player he knows he won't bring back.

Vasquez/Felton/Stone
Derozan/Fields/Shump or THJ
Ross/Salmons/Novak
Amir/TH/Patterson
JoVal/Amir/Hayes

^ Sorry, but that's not a tank team at all (assuming we get Felton + one of Shumpert/THJ). That is a team in no man's land at worst. Obviously the Lowry deal likely won't be all he does but for now that is all we have to go on.
Gays salary was an anchor and he had to go tank or no tank. Lowry is expiring and he has to go tank or no tank. You're right. The only true move that signals a desire to lose is trading DD or Amir for youth, picks and salary baggage players. Until MU does that he's still going with the flow.

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Old 12-16-2013, 04:11 PM   #28 (permalink)
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He'd be the backup numbnuts
and you think that'd be an adequate line-up how?

Vasquez with Felton backing up is a fucking joke LOL.

I suppose that's what we're aiming for anyway this year
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:20 PM   #29 (permalink)
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and you think that'd be an adequate line-up how?

Vasquez with Felton backing up is a fucking joke LOL.
it's an improvement from Lowry/Stone........at worst it's no worse.
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:52 PM   #30 (permalink)
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what did he mean by no man's land? He could have very well meant that he would not be stuck as a middling team in the long run. That he would ensure there is flexibility and a path forward, or in fact many paths forward.

I still continue to contend that Masai is about leaving as many options open as possible and not getting handcuffed. If Lowry is traded, it will have to do mostly with getting value for a player he cannot plan around. If the team loses a bunch of games it loses a bunch of games and he goes from there. If it wins a bunch of games then it wins a bunch of games and he goes from there. And in each case there will be multiple options stemming off from the results at hand.

I said weeks ago that this team could be better without Gay and Lowry. We get way too caught up with talent level and fail to scrutinize team play. Lowry is playing really well with this team right now, so it's hard to see an improvement with him gone, but they might not be significantly worse. And that would not be such a horrible thing. It would mean the value of a lot of the bit pieces would go up, and they could bring back some good returns in a package deal.

Masai is surely looking down the road with everything right now. And I think that means that engineering a losing season in the here and now is not on his plate so much. Not at this point yet, unless he has for certain decided that guys like DeMar and Amir are not what he sees in the long view, in which case he's crazy to keep them any longer than he needs to. We'll see how that goes now that there is a larger pool of tradeable players post-dec 15. I'm good with whatever he does, precisely because I see it as not being some ultimate decision, but rather a path towards fulfilling a complete plan that goes beyond capping out without enough to become elite, and also goes beyond putting everything on the upcoming draft.
agree...Masai has said it in the conference that the options is wide open after the Rudy trade and it really depends on how team reacting?so why in a hurry to trade Lowry?

the team is winning and this is best thing that fans want to see...why should we worsening the team just for sick of tanking?

Sat's Bull's game is the best game by far i have seen this season and if we keep developing the chemistry like this we could really make the noise in this awful eastern conference.

again we need a winning culture to be built from instead of just sick of loosing for tank...Boston is the best example now to shut-up the people who just want to "tanking"
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:20 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Guys, clearly the reporters are the ones out of the loop and us non-tank guys are all right! Woo go raptors!!!!!1!
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:25 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I looked at that deal and saw that Ujiri had given up on the team as constructed, and had decided to move on from this core. Gay is gone. Lowry is being shopped. Judging by the returns that the Raptors are rumoured to be pushing for in Lowry negotiations, winning now is not the priority.

The tank is coming folks. Ignore the signs all you want now, but don't say we didn't warn you.
Not sure how moving either of those guys constitutes "tanking".

Gay didn't fit in with the team (stats be damned) and he was making a boatload of money. It was a no-brainer to move him if possible... the same way that moving Bargs was a no-brainer.

Lowry won't be here next season. Credit to him, he's a competitor and isn't going to "mail it in" but he's already thinking about his next contract and where he's going to be. And it's not here.... so why keep him and have him walk for nothing?

Also... I think that people are underestimating what Vasquez might be able to do for the team with more minutes.

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Old 12-16-2013, 05:32 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Hey let Jeff rock, the little jabs are fun lol.
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:35 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Old 12-16-2013, 06:41 PM   #35 (permalink)
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The CN tower in the background really did it for me. A+ picture.
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Old 12-16-2013, 06:44 PM   #36 (permalink)
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if demar was traded i'd be upset

demar/amir/val are pllayers i want to remain Raptors for awhile.....i'm warming to ross
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:06 PM   #37 (permalink)
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dont publicaly display my dp mr jeffb
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:16 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Like I said, call it tanking, call it rebuild, call it cap flexibility or call it trying to get better now, who gives a shit.

before the season started, we (tankers) asked for lowry and gay to be traded and that's what we're nearing to. As a pro-tanker, that makes me happy
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:23 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Like I said, call it tanking, call it rebuild, call it cap flexibility or call it trying to get better now, who gives a shit.

before the season started, we (tankers) asked for lowry and gay to be traded and that's what we're nearing to. As a pro-tanker, that makes me happy
So you never cared if we got a good pick and you just wanted to see them traded, didn't care of we got marginally better or worse, I assume you picked go with the flow.
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:34 PM   #40 (permalink)
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if demar was traded i'd be upset

demar/amir/val are pllayers i want to remain Raptors for awhile.....i'm warming to ross
exactly my sentiment.
the margins are so slim in NBA, so a "slightly" worse team without Lowry, will almost invariably mean loss after loss..
there's a difference in being stuck in the middle
1. having a max player, but clearly coming up short, and not being able to improve
2. finishing in the middle of the pack but clearly growing

what are we gonna be if we dismantle the team completely?
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