CBS Sports: Valanciunas new physicality on display - Page 2
Old 07-15-2013, 02:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I don't want to nitpick; I'm genuinely asking for clarification. Do you mean to say that, while losing fat, you can't put on muscle to the extent that your total weight goes up? That is, you can't do optimal muscle gaining. Although you'll gain muscle, it won't increase your weight, or be the best amount you can gain, since the efforts to lose fat hinder the muscle gains? Or do you mean to say that you literally can't put on ANY muscle while losing fat?

I'm not familiar with all the science behind these concepts, but I do have my own personal experience. At different points in my life, injuries forced me to stop exercising for extended periods of time. Each time I returned to the weights, I was out of shape to start. I had some extra fat to lose, with some strength lost. And every time I get back into lifting, I quickly see fat loss and increased strength. Within a couple of months, I'm always a bit lighter (even without heavy cardio), because I've lost fat, and considerably stronger, I've always assumed due to obvious muscle gain. And, from what I can tell, it's a steady process with respect to the fat loss and the strenght gains. I don't see one happening exclusive from the other. So, if you can't gain muscle while losing fat, then I have no idea how to explain what's happening with my body whenever I return to weights after a layoff.
You may be asking the wrong guy here since I'm now old and overweight! You can increase your strength without muscle growth. That's pretty typical and its what most people call "toning". Toning is just increasing the density. Depends on what you're doing but there's different types of muscle (fast/slow twitch) that accomplish different things (power/endruance). To add muscle mass you have to exceed the calories you burn, with enough protein as well, so your body can grab the stuffand build muscle. Since you can never over-eat exactly enough, its really typical to add fat while bulking up. When you want to burn fat, you have to eat less that you expend (it really is a simple in-out equiption for 90% of it all), so how can you add muscle while eating less? If you could burn off fat and convert it directly to muscle, then would not everyone coming off the Biggest Loser be a monster and wouldn't the easiest way to bulk up be add fat first?

I have noticed that when working out some days I can just be so damn hungry, diet be damned. I think people can yo-yo during trying to lose weight where they can overeat some days and perhaps gain a little muscle mass.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Yeah, I know. He has several channels. He even posts workout videos on his furiouspete channel where most of the eating is located.

In addition to Pete, I like the Hodgetwins, too. Kevin and Keith crack me up.
They collabed for a video once. It surprised me that the twins are almost 40 years old. They have really good physiques.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:56 PM   #23 (permalink)
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You may be asking the wrong guy here since I'm now old and overweight! You can increase your strength without muscle growth. That's pretty typical and its what most people call "toning". Toning is just increasing the density. Depends on what you're doing but there's different types of muscle (fast/slow twitch) that accomplish different things (power/endruance). To add muscle mass you have to exceed the calories you burn, with enough protein as well, so your body can grab the stuffand build muscle. Since you can never over-eat exactly enough, its really typical to add fat while bulking up. When you want to burn fat, you have to eat less that you expend (it really is a simple in-out equiption for 90% of it all), so how can you add muscle while eating less? If you could burn off fat and convert it directly to muscle, then would not everyone coming off the Biggest Loser be a monster and wouldn't the easiest way to bulk up be add fat first?

I have noticed that when working out some days I can just be so damn hungry, diet be damned. I think people can yo-yo during trying to lose weight where they can overeat some days and perhaps gain a little muscle mass.
Yeah, I am familar with notion of "toning" and the reasoning behind paricular calorie intake for losing fat and gaining muscle. I was basically just being up front that I don't have advanced knowledge, so my assumptions about my personal experiences could be wrong. See, I figured when I returned to the weights it would be possible to build muscle off of the intake of protein and new food I'm consuming, while burning existing fat off the increased metabolism and daily activity requiring calories. If all the "good calories" are getting sucked in to repairing the body from the weights, I figured the bad existing fat was being used for the other calories needs. Maybe there is something wrong with that logic. Like I said, I don't know much past the basics when it comes to nutritition.

I don't think I'm just "toning" in the scenario I described in my last post. I'm definitely not a monster, but, generally, when I come off of a layoff, I make substantial gains on my compound movements. I also do some additional isolation, body building type shit for my arms and back. I hammer my back a lot. And, although I know shit about nutrition, I have eyes. Certain clothes don't fit the same, even though my weight is going down. Some things fit better, suggesting fat loss. My waist shrinks a bit after 3 months. But certain shirts feel different, because my back has clearly thickened. It's bigger, not just toned.

I don't know. Maybe it's an illusion. It feels like fat is going and muscle is added. Maybe they are happening exlusively, I just don't notice it, since it takes place over several months. But it seems like both are occuring simultaneously.

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Old 07-15-2013, 11:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Yeah, I am familar with notion of "toning" and the reasoning behind paricular calorie intake for losing fat and gaining muscle. I was basically just being up front that I don't have advanced knowledge, so my assumptions about my personal experiences could be wrong. See, I figured when I returned to the weights it would be possible to build muscle off of the intake of protein and new food I'm consuming, while burning existing fat off the increased metabolism and daily activity requiring calories. If all the "good calories" are getting sucked in to repairing the body from the weights, I figured the bad existing fat was being used for the other calories needs. Maybe there is something wrong with that logic. Like I said, I don't know much past the basics when it comes to nutritition.

I don't think I'm just "toning" in the scenario I described in my last post. I'm definitely not a monster, but, generally, when I come off of a layoff, I make substantial gains on my compound movements. I also do some additional isolation, body building type shit for my arms and back. I hammer my back a lot. And, although I know shit about nutrition, I have eyes. Certain clothes don't fit the same, even though my weight is going down. Some things fit better, suggesting fat loss. My waist shrinks a bit after 3 months. But certain shirts feel different, because my back has clearly thickened. It's bigger, not just toned.

I don't know. Maybe it's an illusion. It feels like fat is going and muscle is added. Maybe they are happening exlusively, I just don't notice it, since it takes place over several months. But it seems like both are occuring simultaneously.
well said bill. I feel the same way with p90x. hell even after 10 or so days my clothes fit different, and not just them being looser, but also having more of a "v" shape in the back, and the sleeves hugging the arms tighter, etc.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:21 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Is Valanciunas’ ceiling higher than Bosh’s? | Raptors Watch
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:50 AM   #26 (permalink)
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no
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:34 AM   #27 (permalink)
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no
bosh is already at his ceiling lol
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:39 PM   #28 (permalink)
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CAA Basketball's photo "Jonas Valanciunas of the @Rap..." on WhoSay
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:33 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:50 PM   #30 (permalink)
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did I read this right?

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But he’s not far off to become one of the best -if not the best – centers in the league.
oh, wait, it's a raptors' fan talking there, for a moment I thought somebody lost their mind
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:10 PM   #31 (permalink)
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In 5 years he might be a top 3 center. He'll be entering his prime while a few guys who are dominant right now might be slipping a bit.
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:59 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Definitely, he'll impact the game more and JV is a player can build, Bosh has proven that he's not.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:40 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Definitely, he'll impact the game more and JV is a player can build, Bosh has proven that he's not.
agreed. centers are just easier to build around compared to an unconventional pf who at the time was at best average defensively
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:46 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I'm not sure how anything was proven regarding Bosh. He carried a team here for years, with shitnagni weighing him down throughout. Not a great comparison in any case. Two very different players with two very different kinds of ceilings. And right now we're looking at a dude in summer league, which is a terrible thing to base any kind of comparison on.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:53 PM   #35 (permalink)
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jonas has a very long way to go to become a player of bosh's calibre, let alone a player you can build around. you guys need to relax.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:11 PM   #36 (permalink)
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He fights harder than Bosh and isn't a pussy.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:14 PM   #37 (permalink)
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He fights harder than Bosh and isn't a pussy.
Mehhhh, I agree he'll probably be better. But while here Bosh was not a pussy imo. Not a popular sentiment but jmho
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:16 PM   #38 (permalink)
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jonas has a very long way to go to become a player of bosh's calibre, let alone a player you can build around. you guys need to relax.
you can build around guys not named durant, lebron, or wiggins u know

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Old 07-16-2013, 09:22 PM   #39 (permalink)
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you can build around guys not named durant, lebron, or wiggins u know

wow! what a fucking awesome revelation! please enlighten me more with your unfound wisdom and great mind power. were you levitating when you responded? i need to know the greatness of your mind!
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:36 PM   #40 (permalink)
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wow! what a fucking awesome revelation! please enlighten me more with your unfound wisdom and great mind power. were you levitating when you responded? i need to know the greatness of your mind!
+1
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