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-   -   Casey on PG situation (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/casey-pg-situation-24330.html)

jeffb 12-19-2012 12:37 AM

Casey on PG situation
 
Quote:

Ryan Wolstat‏@WolstatSun

There's pretty much zero chance Lowry isn't the starter long-term but interesting to hear Casey not dismiss it entirely right away

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Ryan Wolstat‏@WolstatSun

Casey said he'd cross Lowry vs. Calderon as starter bridge down the line
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Ryan Wolstat‏@WolstatSun

Just in time for the holidays ... another Raptors point guard controversy? We'll see down the line but that was strong from Casey
Ryan Wolstat's post on Toronto Raptors | Latest updates on Sulia

Quote:

Ryan Wolstat‏@WolstatSun

You know what? Re-reading those comments, I'm not so sure anymore about no chance


Psi 12-19-2012 12:39 AM

Casey has been informed that as soon as they can get a good deal for Jose he's gone.

jeffb 12-19-2012 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi (Post 724686)
Casey has been informed that as soon as they can get a good deal for Jose he's gone.

Who knows anymore. We've been trying to ship his ass out for a couple years now and no takers have been serious enough to give us anything decent otherwise he'd be gone already. Nothing would surprise me with this disfunctional team.

Raptors74 12-19-2012 12:44 AM

If John Lucas ever has to start a game for this team it will be a scary day.

If we deal Jose we need to get a decent backup in the deal or acquire one elsewhere

jeffb 12-19-2012 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptors74 (Post 724689)
If John Lucas ever has to start a game for this team it will be a scary day.

If we deal Jose we need to get a decent backup in the deal or acquire one elsewhere

Agreed. I don't think we'd get of anything for Calderon with him becoming a FA this summer, maybe a pick and filler. We appaerently don't want to anything in return other than an expiring and/or a pick. Therefor he won't be traded unless he's packaged in a bigger deal. And in that case, yes we need to get a better fulltime backup than Lucas. If i had to gues, Jose will be here until he expires and then he likely bolts.

JDMtors 12-19-2012 12:48 AM

Who knows Calderon said he wants to get traded, then changes his mind that he wants to be the leader here. Casey favours Calderon as well, and Lowry and Casey currently do not have much of a relationship. Its just another PG controversy which we have practically each season. Casey has played like this before and we still weren't able to ship him out for decent value. So who knows what happens. However BC doesnt like to admit that he made a mistake so theres a chance hes probably going to stick with Lowry to see how he pans out. But as of right now 1 of the 2 could be gone before the trade deadline, or we risk losing both of them come the end of the season

jeffb 12-19-2012 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDMtors (Post 724692)
Who knows Calderon said he wants to get traded, then changes his mind that he wants to be the leader here. Casey favours Calderon as well, and Lowry and Casey currently do not have much of a relationship.

Where have you heard this? All i have ever heard is that Casey loves Lowry's heart and tenacity and that he is his kind of PG. In fact he was pushing for us to get him. :rolleyes:

JDMtors 12-19-2012 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 724693)
Where have you heard this? All i have ever heard is that Casey loves Lowry's heart and tenacity and that he is his kind of PG. In fact he was pushing for us to get him. :rolleyes:

Ive heard it these past few games where Matt and Jack were talking about it, I suppose I heard wrong or they were bsing. I meant that Casey and Calderon have a good relationship whereas Lowry and Casey do not

jeffb 12-19-2012 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDMtors (Post 724694)
Ive heard it these past few games where Matt and Jack were talking about it, I suppose I heard wrong or they were bsing. I meant that Casey and Calderon have a good relationship whereas Lowry and Casey do not

I know he really likes Calderon, but he wanted Lowry here and loves his game. Man, you gotta love the assumptions going on. This place is losing it. lol

JDMtors 12-19-2012 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 724696)
I know he really likes Calderon, but he wanted Lowry here and loves his game. Man, you gotta love the assumptions going on. This place is losing it. lol

Well hes in the same situation once again as when he was with Memphis and Houston. Casey may like the way that Lowry plays with his tenacity and all but you have to look at the way the entire team plays too. And it is pretty clear that the raptors are more team oriented with Calderon as the starter.

But as I said 1 of the 2 could be traded come the trade deadline.

jeffb 12-19-2012 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDMtors (Post 724703)
Well hes in the same situation once again as when he was with Memphis and Houston. Casey may like the way that Lowry plays with his tenacity and all but you have to look at the way the entire team plays too. And it is pretty clear that the raptors are more team oriented with Calderon as the starter.

But as I said 1 of the 2 could be traded come the trade deadline.

I doubt either is dealt. And Casey is as much to blame for the way we played overall our first 20+ games. He was out coached nightly and his rotations were brutal + 2PG lineup. All that and he showed no accountablity whatsoever to players that at times struggled, including our PG's who were both struggling and Bargnani and not playing Ross much at all. The players right now are saying that the team meeting and coming back home has them focused again and Casey is emphasising defense as he did last season. Calderon started several games early in the season as well and we lost most of them not playing any better because the coaching was horrible, we had no confidence and the rotations were still a mess. The team overall right now is playing better and it's not due to just one player, the whole team seems focused right now. To give up on Lowry this early while he's still getting used to the system/new teammates while trying to get healthy is just completely asinine to me. Especially when it's based on a 3 game stretch vs crap teams.

Bargn88 12-19-2012 01:35 AM

Calderon is the glue holding this team together at the moment and pushing us over the top...

If we were to trade him, I want some stability at PG. Lowry is injury prone and self oriented, while Lucas is more of a 2.

That being said, If Lowry can learn and adapt to the system Casey wants after sitting on the sidelines and watching how this team plays and shares the ball, maybe it could work.

pzabby 12-19-2012 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 724705)
I doubt either is dealt. And Casey is as much to blame for the way we played overall our first 20+ games. He was out coached nightly and his rotations were brutal + 2PG lineup. All that and he showed no accountablity whatsoever to players that at times struggled, including our PG's who were both struggling and Bargnani and not playing Ross much at all. The players right now are saying that the team meeting and coming back home has them focused again and Casey is emphasising defense as he did last season. Calderon started several games early in the season as well and we lost most of them not playing any better because the coaching was horrible, we had no confidence and the rotations were still a mess. The team overall right now is playing better and it's not due to just one player, the whole team seems focused right now. To give up on Lowry this early while he's still getting used to the system/new teammates while trying to get healthy is just completely asinine to me. Especially when it's based on a 3 game stretch vs crap teams.

not to mention we haven't even seen lowry work with davis yet... that could be a massive, massive, change that people sleep on. I see a career high in points for davis and career high in assists for lowry the first game lowry starts with davis.

Dario 12-19-2012 04:18 AM

whats working now, is working. dont change it unless we need to.

Dario 12-19-2012 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 724705)
I doubt either is dealt. And Casey is as much to blame for the way we played overall our first 20+ games. He was out coached nightly and his rotations were brutal + 2PG lineup. All that and he showed no accountablity whatsoever to players that at times struggled, including our PG's who were both struggling and Bargnani and not playing Ross much at all. The players right now are saying that the team meeting and coming back home has them focused again and Casey is emphasising defense as he did last season. Calderon started several games early in the season as well and we lost most of them not playing any better because the coaching was horrible, we had no confidence and the rotations were still a mess. The team overall right now is playing better and it's not due to just one player, the whole team seems focused right now. To give up on Lowry this early while he's still getting used to the system/new teammates while trying to get healthy is just completely asinine to me. Especially when it's based on a 3 game stretch vs crap teams.

2 of them are 500. teams in the west, they're not crap teams, shut it jeff.

LX 12-19-2012 06:46 AM

If I'm not mistaken, jack and Matt were talking about Jose and Casey having a relationship that was further developed, not in terms of any preference or quality.

And Lucas would be fine as the primary backup. He's coachable. He can do the job. There's no way the team should hold off on a deal due to needing a pg coming back.

There are already teams like Dallas that look like they could really use a guy like Jose. A deal that helps us should not be hard to envision, and that sort of opportunity doesn't come often for this team. They really need to take advantage of it. I just worry that the opportunity will be used to clear out some deadwood more than bring back the right pieces. But I could live with that too I guess.

FLO 12-19-2012 09:39 AM

Chalking this up to "playing bad teams" is utter horseshit. Get that bullshit outta here. We were 4-19 going into playing these past three games, making us a true bad team. When a team as bad as the Raptors beats a .500 team it's a great victory for us that we probably shouldn't have taken in the first place. /smh Some posters just refuse to admit they were at least partially wrong and swallow their pride.

I'll admit I was wrong about Casey and Calderon. The Raptors as a team have faith in them and it's quite clear Bargs/Lowry either didn't buy in and were hurting the team or their teammates don't have faith in them.

jeffb 12-19-2012 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLO (Post 724770)
I'll admit I was wrong about Casey and Calderon. The Raptors as a team have faith in them and it's quite clear Bargs/Lowry either didn't buy in and were hurting the team or their teammates don't have faith in them.

You really believe it's that clear cut don't you? Lol

It's a lot opf factors (less so for Bargs since he was here last season):

-Lowry playing with new teammates and getting injured early which disrupted everything for him and everyone else.
-Casey changed his philosophy from last season to a more offensive team which hurt our D.
-Casey's overall approach and rotations were horrible
-Our bench often also looked like shit
-Losing a lot of close games early killed our confidence and the losses snowballed, including when Jose started for 2-3 weeks in November


I will say that Bargnani baffles me, he bought in last season so I don't know if he just didn't buy in but he came in out of shape and has looked awful from pretty much game one.

carp 12-19-2012 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 724781)
You really believe it's that clear cut don't you? Lol

It's a lot opf factors (less so for Bargs since he was here last season):

-Lowry playing with new teammates and getting injured early which disrupted everything for him and everyone else.
-Casey changed his philosophy from last season to a more offensive team which hurt our D.
-Casey's overall approach and rotations were horrible
-Our bench often also looked like shit
-Losing a lot of close games early killed our confidence and the losses snowballed, including when Jose started for 2-3 weeks in November


I will say that Bargnani baffles me, he bought in last season so I don't know if he just didn't buy in but he came in out of shape and has looked awful from pretty much game one.

Bargnani has had to adjust to Lowry as well... and the new iso offense that was being employed with he and Derozan this year as well. It's understandable... Casey has over-emphasized him as a floor spacing decoy and long range iso player and it's really hurt him. He's not getting his game going with easy buckets and he's struggled as a result. Jose is now pounding the ball more and demanding movement and it's working to reduce the iso/hero play on the court.

Add Bargnani to this team and it could be a really dynamic system... maybe not starting now, but definitely not as a decoy and NOT always 17 feet out. Even defensively, force him to be down low, LESS hedging... he's been effective down low despite not being a good help defender. His length is still a factor. Casey just needs to demand more physicality from him.

The team is playing well, but it's still missing it's best two players and that will catch up eventually. Hopefully they come back and it only adds to our resurgence. If they're used properly, both have shown they have it in them to be very effective players.

RAPMAN 12-19-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 724781)
You really believe it's that clear cut don't you? Lol

It's a lot opf factors (less so for Bargs since he was here last season):

-Lowry playing with new teammates and getting injured early which disrupted everything for him and everyone else.
-Casey changed his philosophy from last season to a more offensive team which hurt our D.
-Casey's overall approach and rotations were horrible
-Our bench often also looked like shit
-Losing a lot of close games early killed our confidence and the losses snowballed, including when Jose started for 2-3 weeks in November


I will say that Bargnani baffles me, he bought in last season so I don't know if he just didn't buy in but he came in out of shape and has looked awful from pretty much game one.

I agree with the comments with Lowry. Its a new system, new coach, and getting familiar with new team mates. Plus, he has been playing injured. I wish some posters can have the same patience we have been giving Bargnani for all these years. Six plus years, three coaches, numerous teammates, BC and Gherardhini, no one will change Bargnani. Bargnani plays to get up his shots.It is no coincidence that the interior defence has improved with his departure. Look at last year, the defense was much better and played harder when he was gone. Casey made the same mistake Triano made during his tenure, he awarded minutes and touches based on potential skill rather if they player actually earned them. Hopefully Casey can recognize we don't need a stretch four to score our points, and award players minutes based on their play on the floor. Practice what you preach:"POUND THE ROCK"


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