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-   -   The case for Rudy Gay... (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/case-rudy-gay-23363.html)

canada_rocks2369 07-08-2012 04:04 PM

The case for Rudy Gay...
 
K I actually just posted this in a thread from a few days ago talking about the SF position and specifically Andre Igoudala. Figured I would repost this in a new thread since I wanna know what u guys think and not as many ppl go back thru old threads. The following was my solution at SF:

If we had gotten Nash, I wouldve wanted Igoudala or Josh Smith (would fit good next to Bargs I think, on offense have AB at SF and Smith at PF, on defense they switch), but since we've got a penetrating scoring PG now I'd rather go for Rudy Gay. Teams almost need 3 shooters to space the floor in today's NBA, and if we started Lowry, DD, Iggy, Bargs, and JV, the lane would get plenty crowded (would be helped somewhat if DD was traded for Iggy and Ross or Fields started at the 2). Gay is the best option available IMO as he's the best shooter of the bunch and a good rebounder for the position (a necessity playing next to Bargnani). He's also young and still has upside, along with real talent that this team is still lacking in. Yes, his contract is massive, but how else to we get all-star talent here besides overpaying anyway? Just so happens in this case Memphis did the overpaying for us lol.
I'm very high on the idea of adding Gay to our core, and I'm low on keeping DeRozan with the other pieces we now have in place (just seems like a bad fit with basically everyone but Jose, who also seems like a bad fit these days lol). The solution: trade DeMar, Ed Davis, and Jose for Gay.
For Memphis, it makes sense to get a younger, cheaper version of Gay when the team has performed no worse with Gay out of the lineup anyway in recent years. Yes, DeMar isn't nearly as good of a player, but Memphis has enough talent elsewhere that they don't need that production at the 3 as much as we do, especially not at that cost. They get an exceptional backup PG and a boost in 3pt shooting on an expiring contract (Jose) and a young developing big on a rookie contract (Ed).
For Toronto, they get to roll out the following roster:
PG: Kyle Lowry, ?
SG: Landry Fields, Terrence Ross
SF: Rudy Gay, James Johnson, Linas Kleiza
PF: Andrea Bargnani, Amir Johnson
C: Jonas Valanciunas, Aaron Gray

Not sure what our cap situation would look like at this point but use whatever we have left to sign a backup PG (could amnesty Kleiza if it helps...) and another big for the vet's minimum and we're done for the summer. This lineup features excellent rebounders at PG, SG, SF, and potentially C to offset Bargnani's "contributions" in that area, with good perimeter shooting and 3 starters capable of creating their own shot. Would be a decent lineup defensively with potentially all-star talent at multiple positions, balance and depth and plenty of room to improve while Ross and JV get acclimated to the NBA and the rest of the roster hits it's prime.
So we got youth, talent, depth, 3pt shooting, rebounding, defense, and potential... What do u think? Who would say "no", Memphis or Toronto?

canada_rocks2369 07-08-2012 04:14 PM

I understand we are giving up 3 valued assets for an overpaid Rudy Gay but he isn't as available as we once thought he was and Jose isn't in our plans for the future with Lowry aboard, Davis is somewhat redundant with Amir here, and DD has shown less growth in his game than hoped and would not be needed whatsoever with Gay, Fields, and Ross here (all of whom fit better with the current roster IMO).

KoolAid 07-08-2012 04:17 PM

Being that this is a raptors fan base forum many would see that as overpaying.

I'm not one of those people as I see it reasonable to give 2 young players with upside and a decent player with an expiring contract for a star player.

XsnOs 07-08-2012 04:23 PM

here we go again!!!

halphbreedballer 07-08-2012 04:24 PM

I am all for getting Rudy Gay as he has the abilty to take over games on both sides of the ball...

canada_rocks2369 07-08-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoolAid (Post 667862)
Being that this is a raptors fan base forum many would see that as overpaying.

I'm not one of those people as I see it reasonable to give 2 young players with upside and a decent player with an expiring contract for a star player.


Ya especially since 1 great player (not saying Gay is great, just saying lol) can affect a game more than 3 good ones in the NBA. That's why oftentimes people say that whoever gets the best player wins the trade (the exception being Melo and the Knicks but that's REALLY overpaying). Yes, we sacrifice a little depth (although we wouldn't be left thin by any means) but u can only play 5 players at once and the talent level on the floor would always be higher with Gay out there.

Bankiz 07-08-2012 05:03 PM

i don't know why but he don't inspire me, like a batum (more young for the same and cheaper) or iguy (cheaper, one year only between them, and a way better defender and passer. also he is also a good 3s shooter)

so for 32M for 2 years i think that very high on a guy who would bo to a contender in the us, instead of staying here.

Marion would be sure upgrade, more defense, more huslte, vet leadership, he knows the casey system.
jose + JJ for marion + beaubois, would resolve or problem
a vet sf and a young guard to bakcup lowry, and beaubois is a really good shooter too.

whatever, i would say no to gay.

my preference at sf would be:
1. JJ/Fields/Kleiza
2. Iguy/fields
3. Marion/fields/kleiza
4.batum/fields/kleiza

halphbreedballer 07-08-2012 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankiz (Post 667872)
i don't know why but he don't inspire me, like a batum (more young for the same and cheaper) or iguy (cheaper, one year only between them, and a way better defender and passer. also he is also a good 3s shooter)

so for 32M for 2 years i think that very high on a guy who would bo to a contender in the us, instead of staying here.

Marion would be sure upgrade, more defense, more huslte, vet leadership, he knows the casey system.
jose + JJ for marion + beaubois, would resolve or problem
a vet sf and a young guard to bakcup lowry, and beaubois is a really good shooter too.

whatever, i would say no to gay.

my preference at sf would be:
1. JJ/Fields/Kleiza
2. Iguy/fields
3. Marion/fields/kleiza
4.batum/fields/kleiza

No way i want Marion on this team.

Blaze 07-08-2012 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankiz (Post 667872)
i don't know why but he don't inspire me, like a batum (more young for the same and cheaper) or iguy (cheaper, one year only between them, and a way better defender and passer. also he is also a good 3s shooter)

so for 32M for 2 years i think that very high on a guy who would bo to a contender in the us, instead of staying here.

Marion would be sure upgrade, more defense, more huslte, vet leadership, he knows the casey system.
jose + JJ for marion + beaubois, would resolve or problem
a vet sf and a young guard to bakcup lowry, and beaubois is a really good shooter too.

whatever, i would say no to gay.

my preference at sf would be:
1. JJ/Fields/Kleiza
2. Iguy/fields
3. Marion/fields/kleiza
4.batum/fields/kleiza

Iggy is three years older than Gay and only better defensively. Rudy is a top 5 SF with room to improve and fits the system better than Iggy because he can shoot and although Iggy is a better defender, Gay is no slouch in that category.

I think Raptor fans that would even consider Iggy over Gay forget that we are still in rebuilding and development process. Say it takes us two years to be ready, Val, and Ross are going to take time, Lowery needs to get chemistry and learn the system, and Bargs and Demar need to make some more improvements. Now say you bring in Iggy, by the end of the two years he will be 30 and on his decline. Gay on the other hand will be 27, just entering his prime and will have gotten better the past two years, leaving us in a prime situation to compete.

That being said Grizz have no interest in trading Gay, let alone to us.

Dark Knight 07-08-2012 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halphbreedballer (Post 667873)
No way i want Marion on this team.

Pretty sure he already was. :p

http://i.thestar.com/images/fe/79/07...a52b0dd3c.jpeg

canada_rocks2369 07-08-2012 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaze (Post 667874)
Iggy is three years older than Gay and only better defensively. Rudy is a top 5 SF with room to improve and fits the system better than Iggy because he can shoot and although Iggy is a better defender, Gay is no slouch in that category.

I think Raptor fans that would even consider Iggy over Gay forget that we are still in rebuilding and development process. Say it takes us two years to be ready, Val, and Ross are going to take time, Lowery needs to get chemistry and learn the system, and Bargs and Demar need to make some more improvements. Now say you bring in Iggy, by the end of the two years he will be 30 and on his decline. Gay on the other hand will be 27, just entering his prime and will have gotten better the past two years, leaving us in a prime situation to compete.

That being said Grizz have no interest in trading Gay, let alone to us.

I actually didn't realize till someone else mentioned it but Iggy's actually a pretty decent shooter, similar %'s to Gay on more attempts.... Still, he's not a bad fit here but acquiring Gay would be ideal. Better at creating his own shot and not bad defensively like u said. The biggest thing, as u also noted, is he's a few years younger and may still improve. I feel like Iggy peaked a while ago, the best we can expect from him is maintaining his current level for a couple years. I would expect more long term for anyone we're hoping to add to our "core".

And on a similar note (not to u but whoever mentioned Marion): bringing back Marion is an absolutely ridiculous concept. I can't understand in any way, shape or form how that makes any sense for this team at this time. Leadership? C'mon that's a nice way of saying he doesn't bring much else anymore... Granted he's still a decent defender and a veteran presence who won't kill u with mistakes, but if that's your talent u sign with a contender, not a team hoping to sneak into the playoffs..

Also, is there anything to that "let alone to us" comment? I don't see any reason why Toronto couldn't work out a deal with Memphis, and we can offer a nice package of assets. Jose is a nice luxury on any playoff team as a backup and will help financially as an expiring contract, DeMar replaces Gay (although with less production) and has potential to sell the fan base on, and Davis is cheap and improving talent with size... They couldn't ask for much more in return for a player they overpaid (IMO) and we wouldn't miss anyone but Jose at backup PG (and he's probably gone by the following season anyway).

Blaze 07-08-2012 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canada_rocks2369 (Post 667879)
I actually didn't realize till someone else mentioned it but Iggy's actually a pretty decent shooter, similar %'s to Gay on more attempts.... Still, he's not a bad fit here but acquiring Gay would be ideal. Better at creating his own shot and not bad defensively like u said. The biggest thing, as u also noted, is he's a few years younger and may still improve. I feel like Iggy peaked a while ago, the best we can expect from him is maintaining his current level for a couple years. I would expect more long term for anyone we're hoping to add to our "core".

And on a similar note (not to u but whoever mentioned Marion): bringing back Marion is an absolutely ridiculous concept. I can't understand in any way, shape or form how that makes any sense for this team at this time. Leadership? C'mon that's a nice way of saying he doesn't bring much else anymore... Granted he's still a decent defender and a veteran presence who won't kill u with mistakes, but if that's your talent u sign with a contender, not a team hoping to sneak into the playoffs..

Also, is there anything to that "let alone to us" comment? I don't see any reason why Toronto couldn't work out a deal with Memphis, and we can offer a nice package of assets. Jose is a nice luxury on any playoff team as a backup and will help financially as an expiring contract, DeMar replaces Gay (although with less production) and has potential to sell the fan base on, and Davis is cheap and improving talent with size... They couldn't ask for much more in return for a player they overpaid IMO

It's not that Toronto is a bad team to do business or a remark against Toronto as a franchise but for a player like Gay there would be much more appealing options then what Toronto has to offer. I don't think a lot of teams think he's overpaid, especially since he's still young and producing and has room to improve. If he's available other teams can give better offers that's all.

MBailey85 07-08-2012 06:27 PM

I'd like Rudy Gay on the Raptors and he would be the only player who's acquirable that I'd trade Demar Derozan for.

Andre Iguodola I hear alot,and him being selected over Gay for the U.S. Olympic team ends the debate over who is better between the two right now but I believe Gay is better suited for the Raptors,currently and moving forward.

This is a good trade for Gay,but now that Chicago has signed Kirk Hinrich it probably wouldn't happen anymore

Chicago Gets: Calderon,Derozan /Toronto Gets: Gay /Memphis Gets: Deng

Approved on ESPN's Trade Machine..Not too much of a drop off either
NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

canada_rocks2369 07-08-2012 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @BaileysBlitz (Post 667885)
I'd like Rudy Gay on the Raptors and he would be the only player who's acquirable that I'd trade Demar Derozan for.

Andre Iguodola I hear alot, and him being selected over Gay for the U.S. Olympic team ends the debate over who is better between the two right now but I believe Gay is better suited for the Raptors,currently and moving forward.

This is a good trade for Gay,but now that Chicago has signed Kirk Hinrich it probably wouldn't happen anymore

Chicago Gets: Calderon,Derozan /Toronto Gets: Gay /Memphis Gets: Deng

Approved on ESPN's Trade Machine..Not too much of a drop off either
NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

I disagree with this statement. The debate rages on....

moremilk 07-08-2012 07:02 PM

I would be ok with overpaying gay, but at most i'd be willing to trade Davis. No way I give up on demar and/or Ross for the right to overpay gay.

Blaze 07-08-2012 07:04 PM

Quote:

Andre Iguodola I hear alot,and him being selected over Gay for the U.S. Olympic team ends the debate over who is better between the two right now but I believe Gay is better suited for the Raptors,currently and moving forward
Not at all, he was probably chosen on the US team for his defence. It's a different context clearly they don't need a star or the better player, they have shit loads. It would also mean that Chandler is better than all those who got rejected when they chose him simply because of height and defense. Of course this is just an interpretation, your free to think whatever you like, however it in no way puts an end to the arguement.

Dark Knight 07-08-2012 07:07 PM

Rudy Gay or Iguodala would be the only sure-fire small forwards (that are available) that could catapult us into the play-offs. Iggy would be a defensive stopper on the wings, while also adding some scoring punch. Rudy would be a nice first option on offense, allowing more room for Andrea to work.

Either would be fantastic. Hard to be picky in our situation.

MBailey85 07-08-2012 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaze (Post 667898)
Not at all, he was probably chosen on the US team for his defence. It's a different context clearly they don't need a star or the better player, they have shit loads. It would also mean that Chandler is better than all those who got rejected when they chose him simply because of height and defense. Of course this is just an interpretation, your free to think whatever you like, however it in no way puts an end to the arguement.

For the record,i like Gay and personally think he's better but...It's going to be very hard to justify who's better between alot of players

Regardless,if the US Team eyes a specialty guy or not ( like in the past with Prince,Redd) the general idea is that they send their best available players and I can accept that they chose Iggy over Gay because they feel he gives them a better chance to win.

KoolAid 07-08-2012 07:17 PM

I would honestly give anybody on our roster bar ross (debatable), lowry, bargs and val for Gay.

But honestly who would buy and wear his jersey?:cookie:

LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! 07-08-2012 07:22 PM

Iggy is a better overall player while Gay is a more natural shooter.


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