Calderon Taking Lead Role For Raptors - Page 3
Old 12-18-2012, 12:26 PM   #41 (permalink)
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It's very surprising that nobody was willing to trade for a top 5 PG in the nba :cookie:
what's as amazing is most fans wanted jose gone when we trying to trade him, including this summer. why would we want a top 5 pg traded?
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:27 PM   #42 (permalink)
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And speaking of our latest PG controversy...

A lot of you have shat on Bargnani, and rightly so, when he was starting over others, like Ed or Amir, potentially more deserving players. Well, if we look on the face of it, so far this season Lowry hasn't done anything to suggest that he should start over Jose Calderon. Forget the team's records with each starting (clearly in favour of Jose) - check out their season stats (combined stats, mind you, with a lot of Jose's minutes coming with the second, scoring-challenged unit):

Lowry:

16 games, 31.0 MPG, 0.406 FG%, 0.342 3pFG%, 0.818 FT%, 5.6 RPG, 5.8 APG, 1.6 SPG 0.6 BPG, 2.6 TOG, 15.8 PPG

Calderon:

25 games, 28.2 MPG, 0.426 FG%, 0.442 3pFG%, 0.902 FT%, 2.4 RPG, 7.1 APG, 0.6 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 1.8 TOG 10.1 PPG

Do those stats look like Lowry is clearly the better player? And those are individual stats only. On top of that, one might want to consider that the offence appears to be working better with Calderon at the helm - so, in the "making others better" department, Jose is actually ahead at the moment.

I will admit, we don't have enough evidence on what would happen if Lowry stays healthy for long stretches and actually learns his teammates and where/how they should be getting the ball. But at this point, and precisely because he needs time to do that, I'd bring him off the bench and ask him to prove that he is a better player by actually playing like one at the PG spot.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:28 PM   #43 (permalink)
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what's as amazing is most fans wanted jose gone when we trying to trade him, including this summer. why would we want a top 5 pg traded?
See the flies comment above.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:30 PM   #44 (permalink)
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It's very surprising that nobody was willing to trade for a top 5 PG in the nba :cookie:
somebody makes a ridiculous thread about Jose being a top 5 and very few agree with it and you keep bringing it up????

Remember when everyone was saying Lowry was better than guys like Conley and Tony Parker? Why isn't that being brought up anymore? Wtf.

Jose isn't responsible for the top 5 talk, and nobody on here thinks he's that good. As for his salary, it's up after the year. He's not getting anywhere near that again, which actually makes him a better value once again. Unlike Kyle, who is likely going to want more money.... ummm, the decision is obvious.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:30 PM   #45 (permalink)
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See the flies comment above.
Lowry>>>>>Calderon
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:31 PM   #46 (permalink)
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somebody makes a ridiculous thread about Jose being a top 5 and very few agree with it and you keep bringing it up????
The very, very sad part is that people agreed.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:32 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Lowry>>>>>Calderon
My comments had to do with your "majority of fans" theme, repeated over and over again. Feel free to ignore the issue and choose side-barbs instead.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:38 PM   #48 (permalink)
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The very, very sad part is that people agreed.
agreed... but the fact that it's brought up repeatedly as if it has any merit is annoying. Did you agree? I didn't.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:39 PM   #49 (permalink)
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agreed... but the fact that it's brought up repeatedly as if it has any merit is annoying. Did you agree? I didn't.
Bringing it up is obviously a joke, you don't see that?
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:40 PM   #50 (permalink)
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somebody makes a ridiculous thread about Jose being a top 5 and very few agree with it and you keep bringing it up????

Remember when everyone was saying Lowry was better than guys like Conley and Tony Parker? Why isn't that being brought up anymore? Wtf.

Jose isn't responsible for the top 5 talk, and nobody on here thinks he's that good. As for his salary, it's up after the year. He's not getting anywhere near that again, which actually makes him a better value once again. Unlike Kyle, who is likely going to want more money.... ummm, the decision is obvious.
That isn't as blasphemous as saying he's a top 5 pg in the league.

11 people voted yes.

You don't think it's time for a change? How many seasons has it been?

For the first time like ever BC has the chance to sell high instead of sell low, keep or buy high.

Also, people are so quick to judge Lowry while he's unhealthy but other players on this team have gotten multiple seasons to be evaluated just hoping that they suddenly change.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:44 PM   #51 (permalink)
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That isn't as blasphemous as saying he's a top 5 pg in the league.

11 people voted yes.

You don't think it's time for a change? How many seasons has it been?

For the first time like ever BC has the chance to sell high instead of sell low, keep or buy high.

Also, people are so quick to judge Lowry while he's unhealthy but other players on this team have gotten multiple seasons to be evaluated just hoping that they suddenly change.
I want change, but I don't think Jose is the first part of that change. Also, Lowry's reputation is not just being judged on this season alone. He's in his seventh season.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:46 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Bringing it up is obviously a joke, you don't see that?
I see it in every thread, so yes, I see it enough.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:48 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
That isn't as blasphemous as saying he's a top 5 pg in the league.

11 people voted yes.

You don't think it's time for a change? How many seasons has it been?

For the first time like ever BC has the chance to sell high instead of sell low, keep or buy high.

Also, people are so quick to judge Lowry while he's unhealthy but other players on this team have gotten multiple seasons to be evaluated just hoping that they suddenly change.
Ugghhh, i'm so tired of the Calderon discussion. This last month is essentially the last 5 years with Jose Calderon with this fanbase. When he starts and we win he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, when we lose we call to trade him and blame his defense. For 3yrs he was injury prone and at times outplayed by other borderline starters. A month ago he was shitting the bed off the bench and his D was lamented on every single game. Now he's back to being some great PG and the player that was brought in to replace him should be traded (most are saying) after 15 games (10 or so of which playing while hurt). More than anything i'm sick and tired of the back and fourth love/hate this fanbase has with this guy and the conversations currently going on that have happened far too much in his tenure, specifically the last 5 years or so.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:51 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I want change, but I don't think Jose is the first part of that change. Also, Lowry's reputation is not just being judged on this season alone. He's in his seventh season.
Just like Jose and others' reputations are based on their 7-8 seasons in the league.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:53 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I have a suggestion for you, jeff - stop talking to "the fanbase" and start having discussions with individuals. You are not, as yet, a great basketball mind who easily gets tired after talking to the masses.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:53 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Ugghhh, i'm so tired of the Calderon discussion. This last month is essentially the last 5 years with Jose Calderon with this fanbase. When he starts and we win he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, when we lose we call to trade him and blame his defense. For 3yrs he was injury prone and at times outplayed by other borderline starters. A month ago he was shitting the bed off the bench and his D was lamented on every single game. Now he's back to being some great PG and the player that was brought in to replace him should be traded (most are saying) after 15 games (10 or so of which playing while hurt). More than anything i'm sick and tired of the back and fourth love/hate this fanbase has with this guy and the conversations currently going on that have happened far too much in his tenure, specifically the last 5 years or so.
Semi-related. You're a big leafs fan correct? I've heard the comparison that Jose's relationship with the raps and the fanbase was similar to Kaberle's with the leafs and that fanbase. Is this true-ish?
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:56 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Semi-related. You're a big leafs fan correct?
Not sure if serious.


As for Kaberle, he was traded so we can only hope.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:09 PM   #58 (permalink)
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the beginning part, "I made up my mind." Does that mean he wants to stay now? All this stuff is so confusing, did he ask for a trade or what?
I was thinking the same thing for a moment. If he wants to all of a sudden stay here and wouldn't mind coming off the bench, I would re-sign him. I would offer something around 2 years 10-12 million. I might consider 3 years as well. If he tells me he wants to explore free agency and I have an offer at the deadline for an expiring and a first round pick, I take that instead.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:17 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I was thinking the same thing for a moment. If he wants to all of a sudden stay here and wouldn't mind coming off the bench, I would re-sign him.
Rinse, wash, repeat. Why, so we can continue to have these converstaions for another 3-4 years and go back and fourth while loving him one minute and hating him the next. I will say this though, if he's dumb enough to want to stay here he deserves what he gets.

He said two things that i thought were very telling. wants to be the most profesional player in the NBA whether he's on the floor or not. For me it just sounds like he's saying that while i'm here start or not i'll be a professional about it until i'm either moved or become a FA. Then again, that's just me and wishful thinking.

Last edited by jeffb; 12-18-2012 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:38 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I anyone thinks that Calderon is a top 5 point guard in the league, they are flat out WRONG. No questions asked.
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