Butch Carter: Raps look better without Bargnani

Raptors1995 · 12-19-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Former head coach Butch Carter believes that the Toronto Raptors are better without Andrea Bargnani in the line-up, at least for the time being.

Carter, who was a guest on Prime Time Sports on Sportsnet 590 The Fan Tuesday, explained how the Raptors have stepped up their game as of late.

“Clearly they are a lot better in two areas. Defensive field goal percentage -- they are immensely better with the group that is playing now -- and they also seem to have less turnovers which has allowed them to have enough of a cushion to win games and not be at risk in the fourth quarter,” Carter said.

“I think they are clearly better. It looks like just a great effort by guys,” Carter explained. “They have got guys playing multiple positions and defending from multiple positions and defending from all of the positions. It’s commendable what they have done the last couple of games.”

Carter, who spoke prior to the Raptors win over the Cleveland Cavaliers on Tuesday, said he thinks that Raptors coach Dwane Casey has also been sharper over the past couple of contests as well.

“I believe that Casey has to do a better job of coaching and not get so much input from his lieutenants,” Carter said. “I think clearly that has happened, at least the last two games.”

Bargnani is not the only player who has been absent due to injury of late. The Raptors have also been without prized offseason acquisition Kyle Lowry as well. In his absence, Jose Calderon has stepped up as the Raptors are 5-5 without Lowry and 2-14 with him. So why are they performing better without Lowry in the lineup?

“All year (Calderon) has made shots when he is not fatigued and he does not turn the basketball over and when you don’t turn the ball over from the point guard spot, teams do not score a bunch of fast-break (points),” Carter explained. “Just look at the Houston game. Jose does not turn the ball over, Houston cannot get into transition and so Jose gives his team a great chance to win.”

Another question that has been asked since the Raptors made the deal to acquire Lowry is whether or not he can play together with Calderon.

“My personal belief is that you have to have three guards that can play: a point guard, a combo guard and a two,” Carter said. “My personal experience is that there is not enough time in the game for the fourth guy."

Carter pointed to the backcourt rotations of some of the great teams of the ’80s (the Lakers and Pistons) to show the importance of three quality guards.

“So If those (Calderon and Lowry) are your best guys then at some point they have to be able to play with each other to cause stress on the other team,” Carter said. “Lowry may not have the message but clearly I think Dwane understands that he has got to get the message across and hopefully he’s fortunate in doing that because none of us like watching the Raps being not so good.”

The former Raptors coach was asked if the team should still move considering Calderon if the team continues to perform better without him in the lineup.

“The issue at the end of the day is I think you are going to have to find out how much it is going to cost to extend (Calderon),” Carter explained. “If he says he will do three years at a reasonable number then all of that has to be weighed. They’ve got smart people to do that, the most important thing is that your assets improve in value so that someone will call. Jose has definitely helped them through this whole period and he’s been an unbelievable professional about handling everything.

“The issue at the end of the day is that people should not lose their head over everything that’s going on, let’s look at the next 20 games and then you will have a lot better decision to make after the next 20 games.”

Sportsnet.ca

Bargn88 · 12-19-2012, 02:08 PM

Butch has been hating on Bargnani quite a lot recently. They played both audio sampes of Smitch vs Carter last night after the game on Jeff Samuts post game show. Smitch seemed more optimistic about Bargnani and him helping when he returns, Carter thinks they play better without him.

I think Calderon has helped keep the team together and sharing the ball has a had huge impact on this teams performance in the last 4 games. Also consider Alan Anderson returned right after that 0-5 roadtrip, and now we are 3-1 with him. He's been huge.

I guess time will tell with Bargnani

creative1mm · 12-19-2012, 02:17 PM

the Bargnanni that had the good 11 game stretch is what raps fans and coaching staff has wanted all season...

lack of defense and bad offensive decisions.. his poor jump shooting off the dribble with no rebounders is just as a bad as a turnover.. and probably kills the entire vibe of his teammates.. . I would be glad if we moved him, if not I hope he can perform at that same level.. because if you don't want to adjust to fit Casey's system, then hit the road

jeffb · 12-19-2012, 02:18 PM

Quote:

I guess time will tell with Bargnani

Yeah, because 7yrs hasn't been enough time to figure him out.

**fancylad** · 12-19-2012, 02:24 PM

the problem is it looks like the team has to figure out a way to help Bargnani moreso than Bargnani will help the team.

I've been a supporter of his throughout his career, but i'm just about off that bandwagon.

Bargn88 · 12-19-2012, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb

Yeah, because 7yrs hasn't been enough time to figure him out.

You know man, I ain't even gonna argue with you. It gets pointless after a while, and he isn't even playing right now. I would hate to start a 5 page Bargnani debate when the guy isn't even on the floor.

You win

JoeyJoJo Shabbadu · 12-19-2012, 02:38 PM

I answered no because he can still return a useful player when traded. But they play better if its that simple.

carp · 12-19-2012, 02:40 PM

Casey needs to let his players play and not try and overmanage them offensively. His offensive system is lacking and Jose is adept at handling the offensive reigns. Less isos, please.

Bargnani can fit back in, he's gotta buy in and they just need to be demanding the right things. Sticking him out at the three line is obviously going to make them look worse.... it's so obvious. You're taking away his offensive versatility that way and he's a mismatch offensive player. You're handicapping yourself that way.

As for Jeff and his 7 years crap.... rinse, lather and repeat. Kyle is on his third team now, should we give up on him like the other teams realized was the correct decision?

FFS, relax and lose the 'this guy must go' philosophy that stems from groupthink and impatience.

niggles · 12-19-2012, 03:01 PM

We aren't looking for players that put up good stats on bad teams.

They've been populating the league for years, statistically appealing, and not part of a winning culture. Get what you can for them and move on.

DuCa00795 · 12-19-2012, 03:12 PM

This Andrea hate really needs to stop. Andrea is a very skilled offensive player, maybe one of the most talented scoring big men in the league. People hate on him because he is not a great defender etc, but people have to realize its the NBA. Lots of points go up, most of these players can and will score at will.

Andrea is not a center, but had been forced to play it his whole career. I know I would much rather see Andrea in the game rather than a player like Ed Davis and Amir who lack offensively. Team defence is essential, as we have learned over the last couple game the difference it can make. We weren't playing great defence because of one specific player, it was the players making the proper rotations and making difficult shots for the opposition.

This is insane. I think Casey needs to integrate more of a post up offensive game for Andrea. Take him away from the three point line, and run pick and roles instead of pick and pops. Leave the three point shooting to the guards, and let Andrea can to work. I believe he can easily score 20-25 points in the post a game. If someone like Varejo can do what he did last night on offence, than Andrea can do twice as much damage.

Don't hate. Appreciate.

Bargn88 · 12-19-2012, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuCa00795

This Andrea hate really needs to stop. Andrea is a very skilled offensive player, maybe one of the most talented scoring big men in the league. People hate on him because he is not a great defender etc, but people have to realize its the NBA. Lots of points go up, most of these players can and will score at will.

Andrea is not a center, but had been forced to play it his whole career. I know I would much rather see Andrea in the game rather than a player like Ed Davis and Amir who lack offensively. Team defence is essential, as we have learned over the last couple game the difference it can make. We weren't playing great defence because of one specific player, it was the players making the proper rotations and making difficult shots for the opposition.

This is insane. I think Casey needs to integrate more of a post up offensive game for Andrea. Take him away from the three point line, and run pick and roles instead of pick and pops. Leave the three point shooting to the guards, and let Andrea can to work. I believe he can easily score 20-25 points in the post a game. If someone like Varejo can do what he did last night on offence, than Andrea can do twice as much damage.

Don't hate. Appreciate.

Well said +1

thought · 12-19-2012, 03:19 PM

say what you want about andrea...but why the fuck has butch Carter all of a sudden become a go-to source for indepth analysis this season?

LX · 12-19-2012, 03:24 PM

So this great offensive talent shooting an abysmal percentage, not passing, and lacking any kind of spark, just needs more excuses and everything will work swell. Oh - sorry for the lack of patience and group think there. Missed open jumpers can only be positive - what was I thinking?

Make it end. Make it all go away. I am enjoying watching Raptors games again.

LX · 12-19-2012, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thought

say what you want about andrea...but why the fuck has butch Carter all of a sudden become a go-to source for indepth analysis this season?

You almost have to wonder if someone at Rogers is behind it to undermine BC so it's easier to go with someone else.

jeffb · 12-19-2012, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thought

say what you want about andrea...but why the fuck has butch Carter all of a sudden become a go-to source for indepth analysis this season?

Yeah, as much as I agree about Bargnani and after see him play this long I'm entitled to that opinion I don't get why Butch Carter's opinions are posted it seems like twice a week now. Why should we care? McCowan just loves Butch and is always tooting his horn and last week went so far as to say that if Casey were to get fired Carter would be great to bring back.

niggles · 12-19-2012, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fancylad

the problem is it looks like the team has to figure out a way to help Bargnani moreso than Bargnani will help the team.

I've been a supporter of his throughout his career, but i'm just about off that bandwagon.

That's worse than making excuses for him and a terrible idea.

LX · 12-19-2012, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niggles

That's worse than making excuses for him and a terrible idea.

fancy was suggesting as much

TORaptor4Ever · 12-19-2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp

Casey needs to let his players play and not try and overmanage them offensively. His offensive system is lacking and Jose is adept at handling the offensive reigns. Less isos, please.

Bargnani can fit back in, he's gotta buy in and they just need to be demanding the right things. Sticking him out at the three line is obviously going to make them look worse.... it's so obvious. You're taking away his offensive versatility that way and he's a mismatch offensive player. You're handicapping yourself that way.

As for Jeff and his 7 years crap.... rinse, lather and repeat. Kyle is on his third team now, should we give up on him like the other teams realized was the correct decision?

FFS, relax and lose the 'this guy must go' philosophy that stems from groupthink and impatience.

Lowry has had more than a dozen (or 2 dozen) good games over his career.

He's also capable of playing both ways and rebounds and gets to the line.

Bargs does none of things... so it's not hard to see why most people are sick of his act.

jeffb · 12-19-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever

Lowry has had more than a dozen (or 2 dozen) good games over his career.

He's also capable of playing both ways and rebounds and gets to the line.

Bargs does none of things... so it's not hard to see why most people are sick of his act.

Besides that, ripping one guy by defending Bargnani....really?

Bargn88 · 12-19-2012, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thought

say what you want about andrea...but why the fuck has butch Carter all of a sudden become a go-to source for indepth analysis this season?

Guy couldn't land a single head coaching job since his time with the raptors..

Kinda sad.

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12-19-2012, 02:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
Bargn88 is Embracing the departure of all the trolls Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 2,766 Representing:	Butch has been hating on Bargnani quite a lot recently. They played both audio sampes of Smitch vs Carter last night after the game on Jeff Samuts post game show. Smitch seemed more optimistic about Bargnani and him helping when he returns, Carter thinks they play better without him. I think Calderon has helped keep the team together and sharing the ball has a had huge impact on this teams performance in the last 4 games. Also consider Alan Anderson returned right after that 0-5 roadtrip, and now we are 3-1 with him. He's been huge. I guess time will tell with Bargnani

12-19-2012, 02:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
creative1mm is a Raps fan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Mississauga Posts: 754 Representing:	the Bargnanni that had the good 11 game stretch is what raps fans and coaching staff has wanted all season... lack of defense and bad offensive decisions.. his poor jump shooting off the dribble with no rebounders is just as a bad as a turnover.. and probably kills the entire vibe of his teammates.. . I would be glad if we moved him, if not I hope he can perform at that same level.. because if you don't want to adjust to fit Casey's system, then hit the road

12-19-2012, 02:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
fancylad is travis pickin' nosce te ipsum Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: east side. Posts: 13,806 Representing:	the problem is it looks like the team has to figure out a way to help Bargnani moreso than Bargnani will help the team. I've been a supporter of his throughout his career, but i'm just about off that bandwagon.

12-19-2012, 02:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is payin Dwyane Wade Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,542 Representing:	I answered no because he can still return a useful player when traded. But they play better if its that simple.

12-19-2012, 02:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
carp is the rebirth of thick Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 10,629 Representing:	Casey needs to let his players play and not try and overmanage them offensively. His offensive system is lacking and Jose is adept at handling the offensive reigns. Less isos, please. Bargnani can fit back in, he's gotta buy in and they just need to be demanding the right things. Sticking him out at the three line is obviously going to make them look worse.... it's so obvious. You're taking away his offensive versatility that way and he's a mismatch offensive player. You're handicapping yourself that way. As for Jeff and his 7 years crap.... rinse, lather and repeat. Kyle is on his third team now, should we give up on him like the other teams realized was the correct decision? FFS, relax and lose the 'this guy must go' philosophy that stems from groupthink and impatience.

12-19-2012, 03:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
niggles is pounding the rock! OY!! Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Loch Ness Posts: 525 Representing:	We aren't looking for players that put up good stats on bad teams. They've been populating the league for years, statistically appealing, and not part of a winning culture. Get what you can for them and move on.

12-19-2012, 03:12 PM	#10 (permalink)
DuCa00795 is back Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Maratimes Posts: 2,452 Representing:	This Andrea hate really needs to stop. Andrea is a very skilled offensive player, maybe one of the most talented scoring big men in the league. People hate on him because he is not a great defender etc, but people have to realize its the NBA. Lots of points go up, most of these players can and will score at will. Andrea is not a center, but had been forced to play it his whole career. I know I would much rather see Andrea in the game rather than a player like Ed Davis and Amir who lack offensively. Team defence is essential, as we have learned over the last couple game the difference it can make. We weren't playing great defence because of one specific player, it was the players making the proper rotations and making difficult shots for the opposition. This is insane. I think Casey needs to integrate more of a post up offensive game for Andrea. Take him away from the three point line, and run pick and roles instead of pick and pops. Leave the three point shooting to the guards, and let Andrea can to work. I believe he can easily score 20-25 points in the post a game. If someone like Varejo can do what he did last night on offence, than Andrea can do twice as much damage. Don't hate. Appreciate.

12-19-2012, 03:19 PM	#12 (permalink)
thought is looking for clunge Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 4,014 Representing:	say what you want about andrea...but why the fuck has butch Carter all of a sudden become a go-to source for indepth analysis this season?

12-19-2012, 03:24 PM	#13 (permalink)
LX is boycotting boy cots In the Paint Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 23,286 Representing:	So this great offensive talent shooting an abysmal percentage, not passing, and lacking any kind of spark, just needs more excuses and everything will work swell. Oh - sorry for the lack of patience and group think there. Missed open jumpers can only be positive - what was I thinking? Make it end. Make it all go away. I am enjoying watching Raptors games again.