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-   -   Bryan Colangelo. (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/bryan-colangelo-23957.html)

KoolAid 11-03-2012 11:16 AM

Bryan Colangelo.
 
In my relatively short time as a Raptors fan I have yet to see BC make a good move that benefits us, bar the lateral move that was the Barbosa trade. He did make the Lowry trade but I think it might just hold us back and being realistic, I think we end up 9th seed in the east this year with no pick and only "experience" to show for it. Lowry is expiring next season and will probably want 12-13 million per, compared to what would have likely been a top-10 pick locked in at rookie salary. Don't get me wrong, I like Lowry and all, but is it really worth it to be a 7th-10th seed year after year without having any actual chance at a title? Seriously, if we had our pick and traded it, DeRozan and fillers to OKC, we could be the team having Harden drop 40+ per night for us, moving ahead with a core of Val and Harden. I would very much rather have that than Lowry + DeRozan + Bargs + Val. In my opinion, if we want to succeed as a franchise we need a new GM and a clean slate. (and Andrew Wiggins) I think BC is slowly becoming as bad as Babcock was, if not worse... he's slowly getting into Isiah territory.

Who actually likes BC, and if so, why?

RaptorsandBuckeye FaN 11-03-2012 11:35 AM

I'm not going to get into a BC debate but it is so easy to be a GM on a message board then real life.

Sure it would be great if Raptors kept their pick and that lead to a trade for James Harden. How was BC supposed to know out of nowhere OKC was going to trade Harden 3 days before the season started? The Lowry trade was a very good trade. A very talented PG. Improving the team, giving Raptors a strength at PG.

BC is in a tough position. It is hard to attract big time FA to Toronto. He has made some good moves though while here. He has also made some mistakes. He did draft Val when almost every Raptors fan on this message board hated the pick when it happen. Go back and look at the draft day threads. I would say 90% people were against the pick when it was made and people were hating BC once again. Now 100% of Raptors fans love Val and want to build around him. Lets not act like he hasn't done any good while here.

Don Vito 11-03-2012 11:39 AM

I've been saying it for a while... this team needs a superstar at the wing. Other then that I think BC has built a solid team, we're just missing that one piece at small forward.

KoolAid 11-03-2012 11:59 AM

There is a very big chance we don't get that star wing and we are left with just a solid team. A solid team that will likely be 9th or 10th seed without being shaken up a little bit.

jeffb 11-03-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 696307)
I've been saying it for a while... this team needs a superstar at the wing. Other then that I think BC has built a solid team, we're just missing that one piece at small forward.


Agreed. I also say he put a solid team together his first couple years here. The problem was we over achieved and even he thought we were better than we were. The 2009-10 season team imo was also pretty solid and was a top 5 team going into march. And since Bosh left I think he's done a pretty job at being patient and adding talent slowly. And yes, that stud SF is all this team needs to be a very solid team, but that certainly will be far from easy. A stud PG/SF/C would be great.

jeffb 11-03-2012 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaptorsandBuckeye FaN (Post 696306)
I'm not going to get into a BC debate but it is so easy to be a GM on a message board then real life.

Sure it would be great if Raptors kept their pick and that lead to a trade for James Harden. How was BC supposed to know out of nowhere OKC was going to trade Harden 3 days before the season started? The Lowry trade was a very good trade. A very talented PG. Improving the team, giving Raptors a strength at PG.

BC is in a tough position. It is hard to attract big time FA to Toronto. He has made some good moves though while here. He has also made some mistakes. He did draft Val when almost every Raptors fan on this message board hated the pick when it happen. Go back and look at the draft day threads. I would say 90% people were against the pick when it was made and people were hating BC once again. Now 100% of Raptors fans love Val and want to build around him. Lets not act like he hasn't done any good while here.

Only Harden isn't a PG.

finstock 11-03-2012 12:12 PM

No GM can win 'em all. But BC comes up on the losing side more often than not based on his superfluous spending for average players. He hasn't drafted poorly. Recent history of like-numbered picks suggests that Demar at 9 and Davis at 13 are decent value. And of course Val. Then again, the only time he went out on a limb was this year with Ross. A move that really bothers me now that we've locked up Demar long term. I don't think we'll see the end of BC this year, but I think his time is up. Leave the team in decent shape and go work for daddy.

Hire Simmons.

RaptorsandBuckeye FaN 11-03-2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 696311)
Only Harden isn't a PG.

Where did I say Harden was a PG?

jeffb 11-03-2012 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaptorsandBuckeye FaN (Post 696313)
Where did I say Harden was a PG?


My bad, I misread that.

RaptorsandBuckeye FaN 11-03-2012 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 696307)
I've been saying it for a while... this team needs a superstar at the wing. Other then that I think BC has built a solid team, we're just missing that one piece at small forward.

Sadly, a lot of teams can say that. Missing that one piece. It is hard to find a superstar.

BC has built some solid talents on this teams. Like you said, they're just missing one big piece.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 696314)
My bad, I misread that.

No problem.

KoolAid 11-03-2012 01:10 PM

IMO it's a lot easier to build once you have that superstar rather than getting good complimentary pieces and waiting for the superstar to come. Complimentary pieces lead to low lottery picks and no playoffs. I think we end up like the rockets of last year minus all the trades. 12th-14th pick (except we can't make any trades like they did because we don't even have a 1st round pick compared to the 3 picks they had).

KoolAid 11-03-2012 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finstock (Post 696312)
No GM can win 'em all. But BC comes up on the losing side more often than not based on his superfluous spending for average players. He hasn't drafted poorly. Recent history of like-numbered picks suggests that Demar at 9 and Davis at 13 are decent value. And of course Val. Then again, the only time he went out on a limb was this year with Ross. A move that really bothers me now that we've locked up Demar long term. I don't think we'll see the end of BC this year, but I think his time is up. Leave the team in decent shape and go work for daddy.

Hire Simmons.

This. I like DD as much as the next guy, but he simply isn't worth that kind of money. BC is paying him for what he expects him to become, not a smart idea. I get that he wanted to lock him up before he hit RFA but DD is not worth tha kind of money nor is he taking this team anywhere. If somebody offers him a crazy contract in free agency just sign & trade him for picks or something. It's just not worth it. Now we can't use DD in any trades this season either. Just a bad move overall. I really don't see him improving to the point where he is worth 9 million a year. And if he does we've got another bargnani on our hands. Great scorer, not much else. Can't take us anywhere

moujik 11-03-2012 01:41 PM

I supported BC until this this summer. But a number of wrong moves followed:
Not resolving JJ issues and giving him up. (He might have TOs in Sacramento now, but a lot of it has to do with new players. He showed a remarkable improvement last season and would've been boss for us this season)
Going after Nash. A short term fix and deviating from the path.
A subsequent result of that - Fields, despite how many times BC can say, he wanted Fields anyway.
Sticking with AB, which now overweighs the positives.

If BC goes, so will AB and that's a good thing. Otherwise, there's not a lot a Toronto GM can do, given how things relate in the NBA.

LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! 11-03-2012 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoolAid (Post 696331)
This. I like DD as much as the next guy, but he simply isn't worth that kind of money. BC is paying him for what he expects him to become, not a smart idea.

Thank you. Well said good sir. People point to inflation, etc. Look at Morey - he signed Lowry based on his production and he got a pretty decent return too.

Superjudge 11-03-2012 01:52 PM

How many teams have built a winner from shit since colangelo has been in Toronto?

How many teams have won championships?

These threads, this opinions about the GM, they are ridiculous. Any GM in the NBA would make your head spin if he spoke to you. There is SO much shit going on that the average now it all on a message board doesn't know, and to be honest, unless you're a lawyer, don't understand that it's almost laughable that you would second guess what gets done.

Draft picks are gambles.
Free agents go where they want to go.

If you actually think it's easy getting guys to come up to Toronto,you're an idiot. Period. The ONLY way up for this team is luch with the draft, and luck with players like Lowry who might be ready to make a jump nobody saw coming...or, in laymans terms, LUCK.

You guys speak about BC as if he has no idea who James Harden is, or Batum, or any other big time FA or star. You all want to crucify him for trying to get Nash a move everyone in the NBA thought was a good one for Toronto. So he had to gamble with Fields.... it didn't work but I like the Nuts it took to make that happen, THAT was not an easy decision for BC, trust. Of course when he makes the moves you guys like it's because Ed Stefanski is keeping him in line, but when something you don't like happens...where is Ed??? Is he still not there???

There is an atrocious lack of respect on this message board for men who are eons ahead of you people in terms of experience, age, education, and straight up basketball knowledge. Yet still here you all sit, explaining exactly where the GM's all go wrong, of course you all have the benefit of having zero knowledge about hos shit happen, and you get to see the results which make it painfully fucking obvious which moves worked and which didnt...BUT THEN YOU ACTUALLY ACT AS IF YOU'RE POSTING SOMETHING BRILLIANT. Here's a hint guys ANYONE with half a brain who follows sports understands this shit, half of it is almost unsaid because it's considered COMMON KNOWLEDGE.

I'm reading this post above me....this Koolaid Kid.... DD rah rah grumble "DD simply isn't worth the money" says who? You??? Suppose they just signed him for fun? Get it over with, I have a Tee time in Vegas???? Back to life, back to reality guy, you're in space.... mental space, floating around blathering crap about things you haven't the slightest foundation of knowledge about in which to blather....

It's one thing to rant and rave about players sucking...sometimes they suck, but please stop acting as if you're all smarter than the people actually doing the job. Because honestly, if you were so much smarter, you'd be somewhere else, not here.

jeffb 11-03-2012 01:57 PM

Quote:

BC is paying him for what he expects him to become, not a smart idea.

What GM doesn't? You really believe Holiday is so good at this moment that he deserves 10.25-11.5Mil/yr? No way in hell, he got that for what they believe the finished product will be in a couple years.

LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! 11-03-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 696346)
How many teams have built a winner from shit since colangelo has been in Toronto?

How many teams have won championships?

These threads, this opinions about the GM, they are ridiculous. Any GM in the NBA would make your head spin if he spoke to you. There is SO much shit going on that the average now it all on a message board doesn't know, and to be honest, unless you're a lawyer, don't understand that it's almost laughable that you would second guess what gets done.

Draft picks are gambles.
Free agents go where they want to go.


If you actually think it's easy getting guys to come up to Toronto,you're an idiot. Period. The ONLY way up for this team is luch with the draft, and luck with players like Lowry who might be ready to make a jump nobody saw coming...or, in laymans terms, LUCK.

You guys speak about BC as if he has no idea who James Harden is, or Batum, or any other big time FA or star. You all want to crucify him for trying to get Nash a move everyone in the NBA thought was a good one for Toronto. So he had to gamble with Fields.... it didn't work but I like the Nuts it took to make that happen, THAT was not an easy decision for BC, trust. Of course when he makes the moves you guys like it's because Ed Stefanski is keeping him in line, but when something you don't like happens...where is Ed??? Is he still not there???

There is an atrocious lack of respect on this message board for men who are eons ahead of you people in terms of experience, age, education, and straight up basketball knowledge. Yet still here you all sit, explaining exactly where the GM's all go wrong, of course you all have the benefit of having zero knowledge about hos shit happen, and you get to see the results which make it painfully fucking obvious which moves worked and which didnt...BUT THEN YOU ACTUALLY ACT AS IF YOU'RE POSTING SOMETHING BRILLIANT. Here's a hint guys ANYONE with half a brain who follows sports understands this shit, half of it is almost unsaid because it's considered COMMON KNOWLEDGE.

I'm reading this post above me....this Koolaid Kid.... DD rah rah grumble "DD simply isn't worth the money" says who? You??? Suppose they just signed him for fun? Get it over with, I have a Tee time in Vegas???? Back to life, back to reality guy, you're in space.... mental space, floating around blathering crap about things you haven't the slightest foundation of knowledge about in which to blather....

It's one thing to rant and rave about players sucking...sometimes they suck, but please stop acting as if you're all smarter than the people actually doing the job. Because honestly, if you were so much smarter, you'd be somewhere else, not here.

DD was a draft pick and he hasn't exactly proven to be a safe pick. Free agency - I and many others know that this city/team can't get quality free agents. However, it's about doing wise moves and investments. Keeping $ in mind is important for trades, cap space responsibility, etc. "DD simply isn't worth the money" - practically every journalist/writer, etc out there has stated the same thing. That it wasn't a wise move or that it should've been for cheaper.

You know what though, let's not comment at all. Everything BC does is excellent. The raps are in great shape financially. almost 16 million tied up in mediocre SGs. Still nothing at the SF spot. players who look good because they get minutes but don't actually improve, etc. F**k, everything is awesome. BC is a genius. We should have complete faith in him. No one should comment or speak at all because we are subservient. We should all go the way of 1984 and not even use certain words. If you're not a GM then you can't comment or critique what one does.

Superjudge 11-03-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 696348)
What GM doesn't? You really believe Holiday is so good at this moment that he deserves 10.25-11.5Mil/yr? No way in hell, he got that for what they believe the finished product will be in a couple years.

exactly...jeffy speaks the truth

Bill Haverchuck 11-03-2012 02:10 PM

See, this is what I was talking about in the other thread. I get sucked in to defending Colangelo when I still think he is overrated.

The Lowry deal was a steal. Even if we finish 9th or 10th and miss the playoffs. Giving up a LATE lotto for a starting PG, whom many would say is top 10 at his position, is a no brainer. You do it. He did what a lot of us wanted.

bjjs 11-03-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 696346)
There is an atrocious lack of respect on this message board.

:cookie:


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