Bryan Colangelo. - Page 2
Old 11-03-2012, 02:13 PM   #21 (permalink)
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hahahaha shut it.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:39 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I just want to say, I recognize that it takes great knowledge and balls to be a GM in the NBA. It's very obvious I'm not a GM but when you compare what BC has done to other GMs in the league you see a pretty big difference. I realize we don't have the appeal of a South Beach or Los Angeles, but when a team in Oklahoma City can contend for a title yearly, we have no excuse.

I wont act like I didn't want Nash here, I was super excited to have Captain Canada coming home and that is why I should not/will not become a GM. Hindsight is always 20/20, but that move would have made us a worse team and BC still wanted to go for it. Even at the time, many of us failed to see where a 39 year old PG on a 3 year contract would fit in with a rebuilding team. He did make a great move in the Lowry trade and I applaud him for that, but he seems to just be looking for shortcuts that can lead us to being a mediocre team, rather than grinding out a rebuild and coming out with a championship contender, and IMO that is not the way to make a team that can't attract nor keep key FAs (see Bosh, Chris).
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:43 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Every year we see BC overpay for mediocre players and this year was no different.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:50 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I just want to say, I recognize that it takes great knowledge and balls to be a GM in the NBA. It's very obvious I'm not a GM but when you compare what BC has done to other GMs in the league you see a pretty big difference. I realize we don't have the appeal of a South Beach or Los Angeles, but when a team in Oklahoma City can contend for a title yearly, we have no excuse.

I wont act like I didn't want Nash here, I was super excited to have Captain Canada coming home and that is why I should not/will not become a GM. Hindsight is always 20/20, but that move would have made us a worse team and BC still wanted to go for it. Even at the time, many of us failed to see where a 39 year old PG on a 3 year contract would fit in with a rebuilding team. He did make a great move in the Lowry trade and I applaud him for that, but he seems to just be looking for shortcuts that can lead us to being a mediocre team, rather than grinding out a rebuild and coming out with a championship contender, and IMO that is not the way to make a team that can't attract nor keep key FAs (see Bosh, Chris).
Yea, but for how long can you afford to be terrible for in Toronto? OKC just lucked out because they got the terrible Sonics at the back end of their rebuild. I bet if they had to be terrible for very long in OKC then that franchise won't survive.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:57 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Depends, if you mean financially I don't think we have an issue there, Toronto will always rank somewhere in the top 18 in attendance imo, no matter how much we suck. If you mean in terms of free agent signings, then we've already passed that mark. We're caught in a sort of cycle of sucking: Free agents don't want to come here because we suck, we suck because free agents don't want to come here.

What's another (probably the most) effective way to do get good players? Drafting.

How do you get good draft picks? By sucking for a little while. And not this half-assed sucking that we do, but full on sucking. We get mediocre players, they lead us to mediocre records, we get mediocre draft picks, and look to improve via mediocre free agent signings, so on and so forth. Unless you hit a gold mine with a low lottery pick, it's not a good way to rebuild.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:03 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I just want to say, I recognize that it takes great knowledge and balls to be a GM in the NBA. It's very obvious I'm not a GM but when you compare what BC has done to other GMs in the league you see a pretty big difference. I realize we don't have the appeal of a South Beach or Los Angeles, but when a team in Oklahoma City can contend for a title yearly, we have no excuse.
Drafting 3 superstars in 3 years almost never happens, look at Minnesota, high lottery picks year after year and they only got 1. OKC lucked out. The chances of any team trying to do what OKC did and succeeding are very very slim. If our team starts winning then we can attract more free agents for a lower price. Free agents aren't gonna sign for a bad team without getting overpaid and everyone knows that. BC has to overpay to get them until we start winning.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:06 PM   #27 (permalink)
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double post

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Old 11-03-2012, 03:07 PM   #28 (permalink)
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BC is not the GM, he's also the president.

We could also not lose the 1st round pick for a number of years straight. I don't get how one game in that people say this stufff. It's crazy.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:33 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Drafting 3 superstars in 3 years almost never happens, look at Minnesota, high lottery picks year after year and they only got 1. OKC lucked out. The chances of any team trying to do what OKC did and succeeding are very very slim. If our team starts winning then we can attract more free agents for a lower price. Free agents aren't gonna sign for a bad team without getting overpaid and everyone knows that. BC has to overpay to get them until we start winning.
Alright, but Minnesota is a much better team than us and they still have a franchise player and another very good player next to Love in Rubio. If Kahn hadn't fucked up by taking Flynn, they could be looking at a core of Rubio, Curry and Love. Much better than what we have right now.

And if Minnesota has high draft picks year after year and "only" has one star, how the hell are we going to get one picking 8th?
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:08 PM   #30 (permalink)
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7 years later and how many playoff wins does BC have to show for it? not many. Raptors are stuck in probably the worst state, not good enough to be a playoff team and attract free agents and not bad enough to draft a superstar. I look at this raptor team and cant understand why so many people are pro BC.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #31 (permalink)
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BC's been good at finding diamonds in the rough - Hoffa for Hump, for example, as well as picking up guys like Parker and Garbo.

In the overall direction of the team, though, he's only now realizing that defense wins over offense, tends to overpay for players, and has yet to find a marquee player that can put a team on his back (though if Lowry keeps playing and putting up insane numbers like he has been and can become the undisputed go-to guy in crunch time, maybe he will be considered a first-tier guy by the end of the season). BC's drafting has been so-so - clearly we haven't picked up any stars, but we've also been unlucky in that our higher picks have come in weaker drafts.

In general, I can't say I've been too pleased, but given that hindsight is 20/20, it's easy to fault him for a lot of the struggles on our team (and I think that'd be somewhat unfair). Seems like he is finally "getting it" though, so I wouldn't mind extending his contract for a few (2/3 tops) more years to see the job through.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:33 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Alright, but Minnesota is a much better team than us and they still have a franchise player and another very good player next to Love in Rubio. If Kahn hadn't fucked up by taking Flynn, they could be looking at a core of Rubio, Curry and Love. Much better than what we have right now.

And if Minnesota has high draft picks year after year and "only" has one star, how the hell are we going to get one picking 8th?
you mean the team we best 18 times straight is much better than us ?

minesotta has been in rebuilding mode for 7 years running, we've only been for 2. And in the last 4 seasons we drafted 9, 13, 5 and 8. How could any GM draft a Durant or Westbrook that low???

I have two major concerns with BC - he's not patient, which is really bad in a rebuilding scenario, and he tends to overpay his players. He also gambles a little too much for my liking, but I suppose he has to in Toronto, playing it safe won't get you anywhere.

Ever since the summer when Bosh left, he was flawless until this summer when he had that ill guided plan to bring nash. That created a cascade of problems, from signing fields, to overlooking drummond and the unrelated mega contract for demar. The only way that contract will be justified is if Demar plays like an all star this season. If BC thought that his development was so great that he'll have a breakout season, I will give him the benefit of the doubt - he clearly knows a lot more about demar than anybody else, US media included. Otherwise, that's a major mistake.

The main reason BC didn't build a winner here is because he is not patient. We should have tanked last season like there was no tomorrow, and we should have tanked a couple more seasons after that - only that way you can replicate what OKC did. He's going the Indiana route, which in my opinion is a dead end, if title is your ultimate goal. No team currently built by that model has any shot at winning a title imo, from Indiana and Philly to Memphis, Denver or Atlanta. They are all that superstar piece away, and they will remain that way forever.

At this point, I don't see why you'd be getting rid of BC to be honest, the team is basically locked in piece, any GM would have little flexibility and might as well let BC ride the next 2-3 years until these long term contracts expire (fields, bargnani, derozan, kleiza, amir) and the young guys show what they can do (JV, ed, ross). Win or lose, changing GMs now is pointless.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:34 PM   #33 (permalink)
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hindsight is 20/20 but we're fans looking back and critiquing a job that "experts" are making. its his job to to put pieces together of a strange puzzle and if when he's done the pieces dont fit, we're allowed to critique the final product. and in 7 years the final product BC has produced has generally been complete shit.


he might finally be getting it, but when you look at him going all out for Nash, over paying for Fields, drafting terrence ross and then jumping the gun and offering Derozan a large extension instead of letting him play the season out.. i start to wonder if he really is getting "it".
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:41 PM   #34 (permalink)
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He's going the Indiana route, which in my opinion is a dead end, if title is your ultimate goal. No team currently built by that model has any shot at winning a title imo, from Indiana and Philly to Memphis, Denver or Atlanta. They are all that superstar piece away, and they will remain that way forever.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:41 PM   #35 (permalink)
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He has obtained good value for his picks:

Jonas @ 5
Demar @ 9
Ed Davis @ 13

The only time he has messed up with draft picks is of course his No. 1 pick which set back this franchise several years.

The one thing BC has messed up big time was when he has money to spend, he's obtaining mediocre players:

Hedo, Kapono, Fields, Kleiza
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:43 PM   #36 (permalink)
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That detroit team had 4 all-stars playing in their prime, and Prince who was a borderline All-Star player.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:46 PM   #37 (permalink)
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First 4 years under Colangelo:
2 playoff appearances, 1 Division title, Executive of the year

Since then:
Bosh leaves and we've been rebuilding. The overall rebuild imo is going pretty well and i still say he's setting up this team to be successful long term and has shown patience, hiring the right coach.


Best moves:
2006-07 roster rebuild (Garbo, AP, Bargs draft etc...), Delfino for two 2nd rounders, Belinelli for Devean George, Hoffa for Hump, Villanueva for Ford, Amir Johnson/Weems for rights to Delfino/Ukic, Turkoglu for Barbosa, signing Jarrett Jack, Lowry for a protected 1st/Forbes.



Worst moves:
Landry Fields, Kapono, Jermaine O'Neal, Turkoglu (it didn't turnout, but he was the best FA available and a big name at the time).


** Decisions we love to second guess: Not trading Bosh, Drafting Bargnani, 2nd rounders never panning out.

*I'm missing some i'm sure but that's about it for the most part.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:49 PM   #38 (permalink)
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That detroit team had 4 all-stars playing in their prime, and Prince who was a borderline All-Star player.
just saying that you don't need that elusive superstar to win.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:05 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I don't understand why people are hating this Demar deal.

You guys realize that like with everything else in the world, prices go up.

Gibson just got 38 over 4. Steph Curry who's probably in worse physical condition than Dell got 44. Ersan got 40 over 5.

What used to be a 6-7 million dollar player is now worth 9-11.

Get over it. It's the finances of the NBA. I'd rather overpay for DD now and hope he becomes a player who outplays his lucrative contract than get him for cheap and then have him complain his way out of town for getting paid peanuts.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:21 PM   #40 (permalink)
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With his first two years in the league with Triano, and having the likes of Bargnani and Calderon where all offense and no accountability on defense was acceptable, bad habits get developped. With Lowry and Jonas, seeing guys sacrificing their body and their intensity to compete, and Casey making players accountable on defense with his minutes distribution, maybe Derozan turns the corner.
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